4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #97

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ChatteringBirds

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This tragedy seems to be breaking news:

Police said they responded to King Road for a report of an unconscious person. When officers arrived, they “discovered four individuals who were deceased...”

abcnews.go.com

4 Idaho college students killed in 'targeted attack,' no suspects in custody

Four University of Idaho students were found dead on Sunday, officials said.
abcnews.go.com abcnews.go.com
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Media Thread/No Discussion
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Probable Cause Affidavit

Press photo album (compilation courtesy of WS member cujenn81)

Moscow ID Police Department Facebook page

City of Moscow re King Road Homicide

Media Guide to the Idaho Courts

Detectives are looking to develop context for the events and people involved in the four murders at 1122 King Rd in Moscow, Idaho. Anyone who observed notable behavior, has video surveillance, or can provide relevant information about these murders:

 
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Kohberger’s attorneys had argued in part that the death penalty does not fit today’s standards of decency, that it is cruel to make condemned inmates sit for decades awaiting execution and that it violates an international treaty prohibiting the torture of prisoners.

The Idaho Supreme Court has already considered many of those arguments in other capital cases and allowed the death penalty to stand, prosecutors noted.
Judge keeps death penalty a possibility for man charged in killings of 4 Idaho students
 
tlcya said:
Kohberger’s attorneys had argued in part that the death penalty does not fit today’s standards of decency, that it is cruel to make condemned inmates sit for decades awaiting execution and that it violates an international treaty prohibiting the torture of prisoners.

The Idaho Supreme Court has already considered many of those arguments in other capital cases and allowed the death penalty to stand, prosecutors noted.
Judge keeps death penalty a possibility for man charged in killings of 4 Idaho students
Click to expand...

Regarding the judge's decision, I would think that the defense had to introduce this motion at this point in the process so that later if BK is convicted and sentenced to death, then they have laid the groundwork for appeal to the higher courts in Idaho and, possibly, later to the U.S. Supreme Court. IANAL, but I would think that this would be part of the process.
 
Sundog said:
Regarding the judge's decision, I would think that the defense had to introduce this motion at this point in the process so that later if BK is convicted and sentenced to death, then they have laid the groundwork for appeal to the higher courts in Idaho and, possibly, later to the U.S. Supreme Court. IANAL, but I would think that this would be part of the process.
Click to expand...
yep, they had to try just to get it on the record.
 
No surprise that Judge Hippler denied the DP motions.
BK can face the DP if convicted.

I am interested to know about BK’s Amazon records/purchases. What are his purchases?
Docket states he has a privacy interest in his Amazon.com account information...

BK wants the Court to suppress all evidence obtained by police via the subpoenas and warrants that permitted them to search his Amazon account. Claims warrant was required to search his account, and the warrants used lacked probable cause as written … [ cont. on page 13 - docket]

How will the judge rule?



Idaho Judicial Cases of Interest
 
arielilane said:
No surprise that Judge Hippler denied the DP motions.
BK can face the DP if convicted.

I am interested to know about BK’s Amazon records/purchases. What are his purchases?
Docket states he has a privacy interest in his Amazon.com account information...

BK wants the Court to suppress all evidence obtained by police via the subpoenas and warrants that permitted them to search his Amazon account. Claims warrant was required to search his account, and the warrants used lacked probable cause as written … [ cont. on page 13 - docket]

How will the judge rule?



Idaho Judicial Cases of Interest
Click to expand...

I think the last Amazon warrant provides us with a lot of information if we connect a few pieces.

I believe LE has the receipt tied to BK (MOO)
The reason I believe this is if you look at first set of dates on the last Amazon warrant, at first they might appear random. But in the Dateline special "The Killings on King Road". They reported that a source told them that LE has proof that Kohlberger bought a "military-style knife" from Amazon in April.

When you add Prime 2 Day shipping to the end of the first warrant window. You get a 4/1/22 or 4/2/22 delivery date which qualifies for "April." Any non-Prime shipping puts us even deeper into April. So I tend to believe Dateline's source. The second set of dates is obvious. For the first, it's just too coincidental. JMO

I think Prosecutors want to Demonstrate Kohlberger's Intent and State of Mind During the Knife Purchase (MOO)
I think the most likely strategy for the defense is to place doubt on the wounds originating from a K-Bar. If they can place that doubt on jurors then the next part is easier. Attempting to frame Kohlberger's K-Bar purchase as no different than the other purchases of knives found in his PA room. Along the lines of: "He's a hobbyist/hunter/enthusisast yadda yadda". JMO


IMO This is why prosecutors want to know about abandoned cart items around that time, up until the point of checkout. To be able to give context to the knife purchase and give jurors insight to Kohlberger's intent. Removing any possibility of interpreting the knife as a innocent (LOL) purchase.

Example: A ski mask and the knife in the cart together at one point (even if he never bought the ski mask on Amazon) tells a very different story than just the knife alone (still extremely convincing IMO).


MOO

Sidenote: for those that have read this from me a million times in the past (especially the ski mask analogy) I apologize!
 
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Nila Aella said:
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Thanks for posting. Some general questions not specifically directed at you @Nila Aella.

This is an interesting dilemma and wondering what discretion the judge has when considering. Clearly defense has exceeded the 15 page limit (preserved in statute?) by more than double, ie. 37 pages. Can the judge just let that go at his discretion? Seems unlikely that he could on basis of fairness. So would/ could judge by discretion order defense to resubmit, say within a specified time limit, pared down memorandums to the page limit? Seems judge cannot just let that go Imo.
 
Harriett_Eva said:
Any indication of when the others motions will be ruled on?

I’ve not been following closely and could use a catch up… TIA
Click to expand...
State has until Dec 6th for substantive material responses to Motions to Suppress according to Hippler's schedule. But there's currently the matter of State objection to defense memorandums in support because double the permitted length. Assuming Hippler will need to rule on that in some manner ASAP and well prior to Dec 6th. Jmo.

After Dec 6th, imo Hippler could rule anytime re yay or nay to Franks hearing. Defense has to meet a certain standard of proof before Judge would even consider a Franks hearing. Jmo.

IIRC, hearing on Motions to Suppress is scheduled for 23rd Jan or thereabouts.

This is Judge Hippler's order re timing of hearings leading up to Trial next August.

 
@girlhasnoname thanks for the note about LE not even needing a warrant to get his records. They used public genealogy sites.

Source: The FBI submitted DNA found at the Moscow crime scene to one or more public genealogy databases to establish familial ties to the alleged perpetrator, according to newly released court records.
Read more at: https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article276611776.html#storylink=cpy

There's no reasonable expectation of privacy if it's public. Right, nobody cares if he himself didn't submit it. Does he logically expect to exert control over anyone with a DNA connection of any kind to him... Does he expect he's able to offer his two cents on whether they can make their own information public?? Is he demanding the Supreme Court make a ruling where they say there is a reasonable expectation of privacy for things in the public domain after all? Is he saying LE can't use such information in the public domain as a tool to capture deranged murderers like himself? While I understand the D going aggressively after that DNA angle, it's going nowhere, jmo, so they may as well keep banging the drum on getting the DP off the table somehow.

In BK's case, I agree it could never be too early to start preparations in terms of the death penalty...
 
@schooling
There's so much we still don't know.
The fact is we do not even know from an official source that the Amazon search warrant has anything to do with a knife. I agree it's tempting to think so, but we don't know it for a fact.
But let's assume the media reports are true and he did buy a knife on Amazon in April. For me the question then becomes, where is it?

What type of knife was seized from his parents home (item 1)? Does this match his Amazon purchase?
If he bought a knife on Amazon before moving to Idaho, and a corresponding knife was found during the search of his parents home in PA, then the knife purchase might actually not be very useful to the Prosecution if it's just been sitting in PA the whole time.
Surely that knife they found in PA has been thoroughly tested. Is there any sign of use on it? Traces of blood? Any DNA? Any trace of cleaning products? More unknowns.
Also, if he bought a knife online and a corresponding knife was not found anywhere, then that could also become a damning element.
Same with the Dickies receipt btw: where's the corresponding item? If he truly bought a knife and coveralls, and neither item can be found, that's going to be a tough one to get out of. But again, we don't even know for a fact what the Dickies receipt was for.

There is just a too much that we don't know and can only speculate about, and I am tired of the MSM leading us to believe things that were never true, as they have done so many times in this case. I keep hoping hints come up in pre-trial court documents... but I guess things will all get cleared up at trial.
IMG_2592.jpeg
 
jepop said:
State has until Dec 6th for substantive material responses to Motions to Suppress according to Hippler's schedule. But there's currently the matter of State objection to defense memorandums in support because double the permitted length. Assuming Hippler will need to rule on that in some manner ASAP and well prior to Dec 6th. Jmo.

After Dec 6th, imo Hippler could rule anytime re yay or nay to Franks hearing. Defense has to meet a certain standard of proof before Judge would even consider a Franks hearing. Jmo.

IIRC, hearing on Motions to Suppress is scheduled for 23rd Jan or thereabouts.

This is Judge Hippler's order re timing of hearings leading up to Trial next August.

Click to expand...
Thank you!
 
Swansee said:
@schooling
There's so much we still don't know.
The fact is we do not even know from an official source that the Amazon search warrant has anything to do with a knife. I agree it's tempting to think so, but we don't know it for a fact.
But let's assume the media reports are true and he did buy a knife on Amazon in April. For me the question then becomes, where is it?

What type of knife was seized from his parents home (item 1)? Does this match his Amazon purchase?
If he bought a knife on Amazon before moving to Idaho, and a corresponding knife was found during the search of his parents home in PA, then the knife purchase might actually not be very useful to the Prosecution if it's just been sitting in PA the whole time.
Surely that knife they found in PA has been thoroughly tested. Is there any sign of use on it? Traces of blood? Any DNA? Any trace of cleaning products? More unknowns.
Also, if he bought a knife online and a corresponding knife was not found anywhere, then that could also become a damning element.
Same with the Dickies receipt btw: where's the corresponding item? If he truly bought a knife and coveralls, and neither item can be found, that's going to be a tough one to get out of. But again, we don't even know for a fact what the Dickies receipt was for.

There is just a too much that we don't know and can only speculate about, and I am tired of the MSM leading us to believe things that were never true, as they have done so many times in this case. I keep hoping hints come up in pre-trial court documents... but I guess things will all get cleared up at trial.
View attachment 546558
Click to expand...
Has the prescription name ever been reported? BK’s green leafy substance must have been used to self-medicate.
 
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Swansee said:
@schooling
There's so much we still don't know.
The fact is we do not even know from an official source that the Amazon search warrant has anything to do with a knife. I agree it's tempting to think so, but we don't know it for a fact.
But let's assume the media reports are true and he did buy a knife on Amazon in April. For me the question then becomes, where is it?

What type of knife was seized from his parents home (item 1)? Does this match his Amazon purchase?
If he bought a knife on Amazon before moving to Idaho, and a corresponding knife was found during the search of his parents home in PA, then the knife purchase might actually not be very useful to the Prosecution if it's just been sitting in PA the whole time.
Surely that knife they found in PA has been thoroughly tested. Is there any sign of use on it? Traces of blood? Any DNA? Any trace of cleaning products? More unknowns.
Also, if he bought a knife online and a corresponding knife was not found anywhere, then that could also become a damning element.
Same with the Dickies receipt btw: where's the corresponding item? If he truly bought a knife and coveralls, and neither item can be found, that's going to be a tough one to get out of. But again, we don't even know for a fact what the Dickies receipt was for.

There is just a too much that we don't know and can only speculate about, and I am tired of the MSM leading us to believe things that were never true, as they have done so many times in this case. I keep hoping hints come up in pre-trial court documents... but I guess things will all get cleared up at trial.
View attachment 546558
Click to expand...
I agree. But we are here to discuss the case right? And if we’re to exclude everything the media reports than we don’t have much to discuss or offer our opinion on.

For me, due process aside (which he deserves and will get)…I think the knife reciept turns a 99.9% case into a 100% case.

If LE does have the receipt, does Kohlberger know where his knife is?

If the answer to that is no, i think it’s even more damning to his case.

- If they have a receipt for a KBar purchase that confirms the knife was sent to BK

- And the medical expert believes it could have been a K-Bar

- and the sheath with Kohlbergers DNA on it belongs to a KBar

- where is his Amazon KBar? Did he lose it? Sell it?

IMO the most obvious answer is he got rid of it. Like any other person who was trying to get away with murder would. Particularly a criminology student who likely had been planning this for at least 9 months (if we’re to assume he purchased the knife).

I bet he found a pretty good spot. IMO

- There was unaccounted for time after the murder. Before phone magically turns on again and he’s seen in Pullman.

- He spent almost the entire next day driving around out of town.

- He spent almost a month in Pullman. And we have no evidence he was under surveillance during his time there.

- He drove 2,500 miles across the country. And though there’s also speculation (like this knife theory) that the FBI trailed him they and local LE have denied it. How many trash barrels at gas stations and restaurants, dumpsters, wooded areas, would he have driven through?

He had plenty of time and thousands of miles to get rid of the knife and murder outfit. That’s the least surprising thing in this case, IMO.

I think it’s tempting to believe that a K-Bar knife purchase and an outfit that matches DMs likely testimony is not damning. But that’s only if you consider it in a vacuum.

With what we know from the PCA and court filings we are being asked to accept WAY too many coincidences.

Datelines reporting came before the release of the warrant. And I just think the dates lining up like that is just wayyyy too big of a coincidence. We’ll find out soon I guess.

MOO
 
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