4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #97

[sunshineray]

The following objections are also in regards to the application of a ID arrest warrant in PA and do impact DNA retrieval from BK after his arrest and unlawful use of IGG:

https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR01-24-31665/2024/111424-Motion-Supress-Memorandum-Support-Arrest-Warrant.pdf

https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR01-24-31665/2024/111424-Motion-Supress-Memorandum-Support-Person-in-PA.pdf

https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR01-24-31665/2024/111424-Motion-Supress-Memorandum-Support-Person-in-ID.pdf

Next, we see this document, which leads me to wonder if the State has thrown in the towel?

https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR01-24-31665/2024/122724-Motion-Compel-ICT-16b7-Material-Sanctions.pdf

My questions are:
20 of 25 expert opinion reports are missing. Why wouldn't the state turn in all of that is required of them? They have ONLY had 2 years to put this together.

Also why are there prosecution expert witnesses testifying about things observed by other prosecution expert witnesses, rather than the original prosecution witness testifying? It makes me wonder if the original prosecution witnesses have all retired or is there some disagreement about the meaning of the evidence so that secondary prosecution witnesses were sought to replace original prosecution witnesses whose opinions were adverse to the prosecution's case?

Has this placed Judge Hippler in the position of having to make an unpopular but legally ethical decision?

And there are other anomalies in the legal documents, which I find quite concerning.

We will have to wait and find out what the Judge makes of all of this.

All JMO.

Wasn't PA DNA retrieved from discarded garbage?

 

[iamshadow21]

Wasn't PA DNA retrieved from discarded garbage?

They took a buccal swab from him at his arrest; it's on the evidence list, I believe.

MOO

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

CBS KREM 2 online February 6, 2023 article (updated February 7, 2023) by Mark Hanrahan entitled ‘No, police did not need a warrant to search the University of Idaho murder suspect's trash’:

No, police did not need a warrant to search the University of Idaho murder suspect's trash

Police, working to solve the murder of four University of Idaho students, searched the trash of suspect Bryan Kohberger’s family, looking for DNA evidence.

www.krem.com

IIUC that seems to answer the ability to ‘pull trash’ from the parent’s residence curb-side trash in Pennsylvania. IIRC a familial DNA link was made from that to suspect BK. IDR details on a supposed search warrant for the parents house; nor as that might, or might not, relate to evidence from Idaho. MOO

 

[Balthazar]

Wasn't PA DNA retrieved from discarded garbage?

BK's father's DNA was retrieved from the Kohberger garbage can. Insofar as I can tell, the Kohberger garbage can was STILL on the Kohberger property up near the house and not at the curb awaiting garbage pickup where it would be legally considered "abandoned garbage" which could be lawfully gone through by LE without a warrant. If it was on the Kohberger property that is a different situation. I don't like what I'm seeing in these documents. All JMO.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

(a) Engages in a course of conduct that seriously alarms, annoys or harasses the victim and is such as would cause a reasonable person substantial emotional distress; or

(b) Engages in a course of conduct such as would cause a reasonable person to be in fear of death or physical injury, or in fear of the death or physical injury of a family or household member."


BBM
If a person IS alarmed, annoyed, feeling harrassed or IN fear of death or physical harm from someone it goes without saying that they know they are being singled out, stalked by someone. That's just logical. MO

Again, you're missing the word OR. That is a very important word because it means that they don't have to alarm, annoy, or harass anyone.

If BK stalked them, he would meet criteria B ONLY. Criteria B states "(b) Engages in a course of conduct such as would cause a reasonable person to be in fear of death or physical injury, or in fear of the death or physical injury of a family or household member."

Reasonable person does NOT mean the victim necessarily.

MOO

 

[Balthazar]

This is all standard stuff, and we see it in every major case. The fact that the media isn’t going crazy over any of the defense claims, means there’s nothing to be concerned about.

Everything tends to change once you read the prosecution response.

Nothing will come of this. It’s nothing new.

What other case do you know of where the person was arrested in one state under a warrant from another state with no supporting affidavit attached and without a warrant from the state in which the arrest occurred?

What other case do you know of where the lead detective signed the affidavit of another detective and it was also signed by the assistant DA and sent to another state to get a warrant?

Just curious, because I've never seen anything like this before.

JMO.

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

BK's father's DNA was retrieved from the Kohberger garbage can. Insofar as I can tell, the Kohberger garbage can was STILL on the Kohberger property up near the house and not at the curb awaiting garbage pickup where it would be legally considered "abandoned garbage" which could be lawfully gone through by LE without a warrant. If it was on the Kohberger property that is a different situation. I don't like what I'm seeing in these documents. All JMO.

FOX 13 Seattle local affiliate online October 31, 2023 article by Michael Ruiz entitled ‘Idaho judge gives Bryan Kohberger win over genetic genealogy battle’:

Idaho judge gives Bryan Kohberger win over genetic genealogy battle

An Idaho judge gave quadruple murder suspect Bryan Kohberger’s defense a minor victory last week after denying their efforts to dismiss the indictment against him for the stabbing deaths of four university students last year.

www.fox13seattle.com

Quoting from the above-referenced article:

“In that investigation, police in Pennsylvania took trash from the curb outside Kohberger’s parents’ house in Pennsylvania’s Pocono Mountains. There, they allegedly found a familial match between his father’s DNA and the knife sheath sample.

Police arrested Kohberger there on Dec. 30, 2022.”

IIUC IMO that source would appear to blunt contention that the trash was pulled from the parent’s location from a source other than the curb. MOO

 

[sunshineray]

They took a buccal swab from him at his arrest; it's on the evidence list, I believe.

MOO

In addition to the garbage recovered DNA?

 

[sunshineray]

BK's father's DNA was retrieved from the Kohberger garbage can. Insofar as I can tell, the Kohberger garbage can was STILL on the Kohberger property up near the house and not at the curb awaiting garbage pickup where it would be legally considered "abandoned garbage" which could be lawfully gone through by LE without a warrant. If it was on the Kohberger property that is a different situation. I don't like what I'm seeing in these documents. All JMO.

Ok, I thought BK was observed putting garbage in the neighbor's garbage can at the curb.

 

[PinkParis2052]

In my opinion, his printed name and signature looks like it was made by a child!

View attachment 555721

Was he handcuffed when he signed this?

 

[iamshadow21]

In addition to the garbage recovered DNA?

The garbage was taken before arrest.

 

[Balthazar]

Ok, I thought BK was observed putting garbage in the neighbor's garbage can at the curb.

We don't know where that garbage can was but he did put garbage in the neighbor's garbage can. But I don't think LE took anything from it or if they did, it was not used insofar as I can tell from the documents.

 

[Balthazar]

In addition to the garbage recovered DNA?

Yes. There was a buccal swab in PA and a subsequent buccal swab in ID after BK's arrest. The buccal swabs were compared to the STR profile. The father's DNA from the trash was allegedly compared to the IGG to identify the family line and STR profile.

 

[sunshineray]

Again, you're missing the word OR. That is a very important word because it means that they don't have to alarm, annoy, or harass anyone.

If BK stalked them, he would meet criteria B ONLY. Criteria B states "(b) Engages in a course of conduct such as would cause a reasonable person to be in fear of death or physical injury, or in fear of the death or physical injury of a family or household member."

Reasonable person does NOT mean the victim necessarily.

MOO

I saw the word "or". How can someone be IN fear of death or bodily injured if they're oblivious to being surveilled/stalked? They can't. MO

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

@sunshineray, thanks for bolding and responding. This is exactly true. Of course a person has to be aware of being stalked. If a person is not aware of it, where would the complaint come from? This is pretty self-evident. IMO.

This actually happens quite a bit. There is no complaint in these cases until police find out after the murder.

Luigi Mangione Charged with the Stalking and Murder of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson and Use of a Silencer in a Crime of Violence

A criminal complaint was unsealed today charging Luigi Nicholas Mangione, 26, of Towson, Maryland, in connection with the Dec. 4 murder of UnitedHealthcare executive Brian Thompson in Midtown Manhattan. Mangione was taken into federal custody today and will be presented this afternoon in...

www.justice.gov

Brian Thompson had no idea he was being stalked as far as we know.

Christina Grimmie "Never Talked About Security Concerns," Friend Says After Shooting

The singer was shot dead at a concert in Florida Friday

www.eonline.com

https://www.cnn.com/2016/06/22/us/christina-grimmie-the-voice-orlando-police-end-investigation/index.html

An Online Tragedy

A N.H. Woman Was Murdered

www.cbsnews.com

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I saw the word "or". How can someone be IN fear of death or bodily injured if they're oblivious to being surveilled/stalked? They can't. MO

It doesn't say the VICTIM has to be in fear of death or bodily injury. It says "a reasonable person" would be in fear of death or bodily injury.

This is how they charge people with stalking after a murder and/or even if the victim doesn't come forward. The behavior of the perpetrator would cause "a reasonable person to be in fear for their life".

It's basically saying that the behavior was alarming enough that although the victim didn't know/didn't report it, if she had known, she would have been in fear for her life. MOO

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Regarding the little step, my conjecture is that BK had been in that house many times before. Whether as a partygoer or as a creeper.

If it were true that he was in the house as a "creeper," it would meet the definition of stalking as per ID state law. MOO.

 

[MassGuy]

What other case do you know of where the person was arrested in one state under a warrant from another state with no supporting affidavit attached and without a warrant from the state in which the arrest occurred?

What other case do you know of where the lead detective signed the affidavit of another detective and it was also signed by the assistant DA and sent to another state to get a warrant?

Just curious, because I've never seen anything like this before.

JMO.

I'm not referring to that, just the arguments about expert bio's and the defense motions to exclude evidence on dubious grounds. It's all boilerplate stuff.

Explain to me why the legal experts aren't going wild over this, and don't share any near the level of concern that you have here?

I've followed other cases where there was legitimate concern, and when there is, we know about it.

I've also followed cases where we get a lot of one sided filings, and people go nuts and develop all sorts of theories around them. When we see the other side, we see that it was the defense just doing their job, and grasping at straws.

 

[Balthazar]

I'm not referring to that, just the arguments about expert bio's and the defense motions to exclude evidence on dubious grounds. It's all boilerplate stuff.

Explain to me why the legal experts aren't going wild over this, and don't share any near the level of concern that you have here?

I've followed other cases where there was legitimate concern, and when there is, we know about it.

I've also followed cases where we get a lot of one sided filings, and people go nuts and develop all sorts of theories around them. When we see the other side, we see that it was the defense just doing their job, and grasping at straws.

The argument is not about the experts bios being missing. It is about the complete lack of information about the subject matter of what 20 of the prosecution experts are going to testify to.

Idaho does not permit trial by surprise. The prosecution IS supposed to provide this information to the defense. The prosecution had a 2 year period of time to collect this information and were given a date to turn it over to the defense. They did not do that. Moreover, the prosecutions own document states that experts will be testifying to information gathered by other experts who, apparently may not be on the prosecution expert list anymore.

All JMO.

 

[Nila Aella]

FOX 13 Seattle local affiliate online October 31, 2023 article by Michael Ruiz entitled ‘Idaho judge gives Bryan Kohberger win over genetic genealogy battle’:

Idaho judge gives Bryan Kohberger win over genetic genealogy battle

An Idaho judge gave quadruple murder suspect Bryan Kohberger’s defense a minor victory last week after denying their efforts to dismiss the indictment against him for the stabbing deaths of four university students last year.

www.fox13seattle.com

Quoting from the above-referenced article:

“In that investigation, police in Pennsylvania took trash from the curb outside Kohberger’s parents’ house in Pennsylvania’s Pocono Mountains. There, they allegedly found a familial match between his father’s DNA and the knife sheath sample.

Police arrested Kohberger there on Dec. 30, 2022.”

IIUC IMO that source would appear to blunt contention that the trash was pulled from the parent’s location from a source other than the curb. MOO

The Court document linked in the article says this:

“On December 27, 2022, Pennsylvania Agents recovered the trash from the Kohberger family residence located in Albrightsville, PA.

jmo