4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #98

[wendy44]

AT actually said her client was in the murder house and left his DNA on a sheath under a murder victim?

Dozens and/or hundreds of DNA is collected from crime scenes. AT did not complain DNA was found in some other places like on a glove outside or on a cigarette.

If DNA can't be collected then next it will be fingerprints. Then Blood, semen, fibers, hairs, sweat, spit, footprints, vomit, urine, finger nails, and on and on.

No offense to you Starry but this is all poppycock. Absolutely ridiculous nonsense. Just throw out all the criminals onto the streets because now they have to have their convictions over turned.

Investigations are not allowed in the USA.

2 Cents

No, but it was pointed out in the hearing--you can't claim it was a violation of your 4th Amendment rights if it wasn't your DNA on the sheath.
JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

LE says the Elantra circled three times before landing behind 1122. It'd like to hear how AT would classify those loops. "Not near", "Not stopping"...

Just what exactly was BK doing driving in circles in Moscow at 2 - 3 - 4am then? Taking in the stars? Optimal, through general fog and light pollution.

Perhaps that night wasn't his first loop.

JMO

I am suspicious that he stood on the back road behind the King house and looked through the 3rd floor bedroom windows because 11 times his phone showed him in Moscow at odd times that were before and after midnight.

Plus, he was stopped near 11:30 pm on the main road in Moscow that goes to the University and around to King Rd. This is when LE got his phone number and this phone number given on this specific night gave the Moscow police a chance to check BK's ATT tracks.

His phone was turned off from being traced during the murders. Is this normal for him? Will the other 11 times he slipped into Moscow also show he turned his phone off at around 3 - 4 - 5am? Like this is just a normal way he operated?

How strange to do this. I do not believe he did this because his own defense says his phone was on many times to take photos at 3 - 5am of moon and stars and the countryside as he drove and ran around on a pretty regular basis.

2 Cents

 

[Arkay]

BK doesn’t have to admit he was in the house because his attorney, AT, admitted he was in the house by arguing that BK had an expectation of privacy for his DNA so it should not have been collected by LE.
If it wasn’t his DNA she wouldn’t be able to argue that.
BK’s DNA, somewhere it shouldn’t be and nobody can wash it away.

No, but it was pointed out in the hearing--you can't claim it was a violation of your 4th Amendment rights if it wasn't your DNA on the sheath.
JMO

I’d have to agree here.

If the defense team maintains that Bryan was never in the house, then the subtext MUST be that neither his DNA, nor his blood, sweat, tears, urine, skin cells, saliva, fingerprints, semen, vomit nor any other biological product of BK’s can be in that house.

Unless the D team crafts some far-fetched narrative of BK physically encountering someone else, who later was in the house and transferred some of BK’s cells there, (which climbs to a preposterous level of incredulity, particularly with his loner tendencies), IMO there is no substantive basis for shrieking about BK’s privacy.

If he was never there as he and the defense claim, then why are they even talking about his privacy?

“I was never there” means he was never there, ergo his privacy can’t be invaded.

Sort of a Catch-22 for the defense.

JMO

 

[snooptroop88]

He has been very fortunate to have been given these attorneys, they are doing the best they can with what they have. The challenge of the memory and recollection of the surviving witness is a good area to attack, if she gave different answers when questioned means defence can argue her testimony is flawed when she states what the man she saw looked like, it also goes to the timeline.
If she had been drinking a lot, if she had had been woke up from a drunk sleep I doubt she was in the best frame of mind to remember everything she heard or saw that night or the order they happened in, add to that the horror of the next day and I would expect her memory to try to fill in the gaps from the previous evening.
I feel such empathy for her, as she knows she will have to testify, and she knows his defence team will be ready to question everything she has said, as they should in my opinion he is facing DP and he should have a vigorous defence but it will be very tough for her. I expect she just wants it over and done with now.
4 IGG searches was a big surprise to me.

Largely agreed on this, but the D may be venturing out of the territory of trying to do the best with what they have and instead into the realm of trying to do too much with what they have (which is nothing). The attack on the IGG is certain to fail, it doesn't even make sense, and it sounds like the hearing (for a hearing ?, am I understanding this correctly?) turned into comic relief provided by the D. (Which is just what the D deserved, they invited it upon themselves in the first place.) And attacks on this witness particularly seem shamefully distasteful, and when you view the mountain of evidence against the D's client-- completely futile. So many including myself are going to view any kind of combative/confrontational treatment of that witness as a completely unnecessary and pointless attack on an individual who has already suffered a nightmare at the hands of the D's own client.

Returning to the IGG and the privacy question for BK's DNA, the P should offer to take all of BK's DNA and throw it in the trash so that it can be retrieved "legally," by the D's standards. Nobody else's DNA-- just BK. If BK would like, he should be given the option of suiting up in latex gloves with plastic baggies to do the job. And BK doesn't have to worry, no animals will be injured in the process of securing BK's DNA from the trash. And then, we can all breathe easy! Aaahh...

Not be pedantic, but Brian Walshe and many others favor Home Depot/Lowes, instead of WalMart, for all their post murder clean up supplies.

What Brian Walshe bought after his wife disappeared, according to prosecutors

Brian Walshe, who is charged in his wife's murder, allegedly bought hardware and cleaning supplies in the days after she was last seen.

www.boston.com

We'll have to ask BK's opinion on this after we fish some constitutional DNA samples out of the trash... I still cannot believe this trial is going forward, it's jmo, but there is no chance of success here. He's "innocent" until he's proven guilty, right, that's to me inevitable. I'm not saying the D should just roll over, but look at the evidence against BK. None of what the D's doing right now is going to make him less of a target for a firing squad. (They're probably already warming up.)

 

[INfisherman]

How strange to do this. I do not believe he did this because his own defense says his phone was on many times to take photos at 3 - 5am of moon and stars and the countryside as he drove and ran around on a pretty regular basis.

Photos of the countryside between 3 & 5A? Are you being facetious? I would imagine a photo at that time would be something like:



Note, I locked the doggie door previously - varmint won’t be an issue.

JMO

 

[jepop]

Pushing someone to remember when she says she can't seems iffy to me.
MOO

When was it revealed in the hearing that DM repeatedly said she couldn't remember/give a generic description of the stranger, which later appeared in the PCA?

Imo
1) "pushing" someone to try and remember after they have been traumatised but recall they saw a stranger in their home at the relevant time is not "coaching". IMO.

2) In the hearing, on rebuttal, AJ made clear that DM's generic description of the masked stranger she observed, remained consistent across all interviews, dating from the first two interviews which occurred on the 13th Nov, the day the victims were discovered.

3,)Based on that, it sounds unlikely DM was "pushed". Of course detectives would want and encourage DM to try and remember what she could. Jmo

To you original contention; accusations of "coaching" the witness are baseless. Jmo. AT was attacking the witness's memory in these latest hearings, not LE methodology. See links to hearings posted throughout thread for details.

Repeating my opinion, DM did so well to remember what she did.

 

[jepop]

I have been thinking about this: AT WILLFULLY read from the police interview with DM, there were motions filed to seal information that wasn't going to be used in the trial, I wonder if perhaps DM IS NOT going to testify. If her statement via interview IS NOT part of the State's case. And AT GOT PART OF IT IN, in open court. I'm still very upset about this, and lost all respect for AT. JMO, IMO, pure speculation

Did you notice the number of times she used the word secret and secretive? She was talking to the jury pool as much as the judge moo. This hearing was a good outcome for the defense from the perspective of playing on the fears of potential jury members who have ingrained biases which may interfere with application of reason to evidence. Jmo

Voir dire in Ada County will need to be good. I'm sure it will be but it needs to focus on all juror potential bias, given what is now publicly released and in msm. Even though we know IGG is not evidence but rather a process to help id a suspect, imo there will be people out there who will now be thinking the FBI somehow manipulated the DNA. And we know that the tip was good. FBI got the IGG right because BK was a match to the forensic sample, first via the paternal trash test and then via a direct buccal swab. Moo

 

[jepop]

That part made me speculate whether or not that is the intended explanation for 911 not being called until many hours later. Somewhat like “I assumed it was just a bad dream and went back to sleep” kinda thing. The brain does some crazy things to protect itself when faced with adrenaline overload etc and will often times affect memory recollection.
Here’s an excerpt from The Neuroscience of Memory: Implications for the Courtroom
“Misunderstandings about memory can have effects on criminal cases even before they make it to court. The belief that confident, detailed memories are always accurate and reliable is contrary to research that suggests the opposite is possible — confidently recalled recollections can sometimes be inaccurate and real memories are not always highly confident and detailed. Especially in cases involving violence and high levels of stress, real traumatic memories — which can be disjointed — may sound unreliable to law enforcement personnel and to the general public and may therefore never make it to court. One striking example of this is that an estimated 86% of sexual assaults are never prosecuted on the grounds that the victim's testimony does not seem to be reliable.”

You raise a good point. I can imagine DM trying to deal with guilt even though nothing that happened and her response to noises etc during the crime couldn't have changed the outcome. Guilt in retrospect would be so hard, and I hope she is understanding deep down how none of this was her fault, she could never have conceived the kind of horror she awoke too. Sleeping in after a big night out was very likely the norm for these young people and DM did nothing wrong. Moo

 

[jepop]

I'm one of the outliers who don't believe he targeted any of the girls in particular, but thinks he targeted the house, and whoever he came across inside it.

Whatever lights were left on, it seems to have been a fishbowl of a house, if the tabloid photographs taken while forensics teams were inside processing are anything to go by.

MOO

Respectfully snipped for focus. I'm the same, I think he just had a plan to kill some or all in the house and he found the house first. After XK and EC he decided it was time to go, because; worn out, concerned re 911 on way because dog barking, just had enough or a combination of. I don't think he saw DM because of a focus on leaving the house at that time. My God, DM was very fortunate not to be harmed. Speculation and Moo.

 

[INfisherman]

Did you notice the number of times she used the word secret and secretive? She was talking to the jury pool as much as the judge moo. This hearing was a good outcome for the defense from the perspective of playing on the fears of potential jury members who have ingrained biases which may interfere with application of reason to evidence. Jmo

Voir dire in Ada County will need to be good. I'm sure it will be but it needs to focus on all juror potential bias, given what is now publicly released and in msm. Even though we know IGG is not evidence but rather a process to help id a suspect, imo there will be people out there who will now be thinking the FBI somehow manipulated the DNA. And we know that the tip was good. FBI got the IGG right because BK was a match to the forensic sample, first via the paternal trash test and then via a direct buccal swab. Moo

The Delphi trial was able to get a pretty good jury, even with all of the sideshow going on via SM & YT content. I feel they should be able to do the same in this case unless things go sideways in the next few months.

MOO

 

[jepop]

Yes, I'm aware. I am responding to #884 where you randomly quote Anne Taylor. Presumably you had something in mind.

AT argued before Judge Hippler this network reporting was only included in the PCA to mislead a magistrate the activity was part of a stalking exercise by her client when, at the time of writing, detectives were in receipt of more detailed information that demonstrated the 8458 phone was not stationary by "the house".

AT: "He did go to Moscow, he did drive around, but he wasn't over there."

I'm pointing out that individuals planning a criminal act have means of concealment before or during the commission of said act (like leaving your phone behind or turning it off), their attorneys are not likely to acknowledge or confront these methods until pressed, and that any rational detective would still highlight the "late evening and early morning" excursions, plus the lack of network reporting in Moscow from the 8458 phone following the attack, to demonstrate the defendant crossed into Idaho, was somewhat familiar with the route in and out of town, in the hope of securing a signature and fathering their investigation to help establish if the suspect indeed visited said property.



It's possible, I suppose. The PCA (Exhibit A) was dated December 29. If there was subsequent visits with the 8458 phone, the PCA fails to mention them, either because they didn't happen or are irrelevant to the timeframe detectives were interested in.

I agree with your reasoning here, the 12 X info was valid for the PCA and not misleading. The investigation into BK's prior activities was just kicking off. That evidence leads to reasonable suspicion for further investigation. Jmo

As to your last paragraph, the phone never again utilised cellular resources consistent with the 1122 address or anywhere else in Moscow after Nov 14th. This is in the PCA and not a detail questioned by the D at this hearing. That fact also supports the inclusion of the x12 prior times in the PCA and imo tends to negate arguments re misleading. Jmo

If BK went to Moscow between the murders and when he left Pullman for PA (on 12th/13th Dec?) he either left his device elsewhere or turned it off each time Imo. Or he simply never went back again after mission accomplished. Jmo

Regarding any updated state of affairs; We do not know if phone off and then on again evidence exists during any of BK's prior visits, nor whether the D and P differ on expert interpretation of the final CAST report. AJ mentioned that the P differs with the D on a factual basis for some of the pre crime cell phone evidence, but was pulled up by the judge because some of the discovery is post the Frank's submissions. AJ said the correct place to explore the CSL data is the trial. Jmo

 

[Nila Aella]

Yes, I'm aware. I am responding to #884 where you randomly quote Anne Taylor. Presumably you had something in mind.

Snipped for focus
To share new information regarding the 12 visits in the PCA.
Should we not consider/share/discuss it just because it comes from the D?
JMO

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Goncalves voiced concerns about the public's limited access to case details, noting that he believes approximately 90% of the case remains sealed.

"I feel like anything the jury's going to see in that courtroom, we should all see. You shouldn't run from the truth. You shouldn't hide the truth, even if it makes somebody a little guilty," he said. "So that part of the still work to be done. We need to get to a point where we say, if the evidence is all agreed upon, the facts are the facts, then it's not going to contaminate a jury."

'You shouldn't run from the truth': Father of Idaho murders victim speaks out ahead of trial

Steve Goncalves, father of victim Kaylee Goncalves, expressed cautious optimism about the legal proceedings while emphasizing the importance of justice.

www.ktvb.com

 

[Bahshudc]

If BK’s alibi is taking pictures of the stars, then where are the pictures? Did they even take a camera from his house in the warrant, or would they be on his phone? Pictures are time stamped. It’s easy to supply an image of the stars at 3-5am IF they exist. Where are the pictures?

Obviously we don’t know the answers, I just wonder if there will be any proof of this alibi during the trial.

Moo.

 

[Megnut]

If BK’s alibi is taking pictures of the stars, then where are the pictures? Did they even take a camera from his house in the warrant, or would they be on his phone? Pictures are time stamped. It’s easy to supply an image of the stars at 3-5am IF they exist. Where are the pictures?

Obviously we don’t know the answers, I just wonder if there will be any proof of this alibi during the trial.

Moo.

IIRC his alibi was that he was driving around. In an area out of cell coverage. As he'd done in the past when out star gazing.

Flimsy whimsy.

JMO

 

[ilovewings]

Yes, absolutely, in the American justice system he is indeed factually innocent, until and unless 12 jurors have heard all the evidence and render their verdict.

Naturally that does not prohibit those of us on a discussion board from making inferences based on what circumstantial evidence has been revealed thus far.

In my case, for example, I infer that this royal battle on the part of the defense to force the elimination of the DNA results is an implication that the DNA results are indeed “no bueno” for their client.

Time will tell.

JMO

yep- they are scared of that DNA- can't blame em

 

[ilovewings]

IIRC his alibi was that he was driving around. In an area out of cell coverage. As he'd done so in the past when out star gazing.

Flimsy whimsy.

JMO

Laughable!!!!

 

[sunspun]

If BK’s alibi is taking pictures of the stars, then where are the pictures? Did they even take a camera from his house in the warrant, or would they be on his phone? Pictures are time stamped. It’s easy to supply an image of the stars at 3-5am IF they exist. Where are the pictures?

Obviously we don’t know the answers, I just wonder if there will be any proof of this alibi during the trial.

Moo.

Could that be the reason he took his phone along? Was he establishing his alibi by taking a few pictures of the sky or whatever in the time immediately after the murders?

Or did he not turn it back on until he arrived back home?

 

[Tealgrove]

Respectfully snipped for focus. I'm the same, I think he just had a plan to kill some or all in the house and he found the house first. After XK and EC he decided it was time to go, because; worn out, concerned re 911 on way because dog barking, just had enough or a combination of. I don't think he saw DM because of a focus on leaving the house at that time. My God, DM was very fortunate not to be harmed. Speculation and Moo.

Unless something pops up otherwise I tend to agree that he found the house first.

TBH, I would not find it unusual if someone was driving around a campus/campus area checking things out. Doing it in the middle of the night, repeatedly, would definitely send up red flags. That’s just odd. But…BK knew about college life. The girls, the parties, the late nights. Checking out homes in the wee hours of the morning makes sense if you’re looking to target a house for your fantasy come true.

He chose a good house to attack. It was known as the party house. Lots of comings and goings, many different people had access. If he screwed it up, there were lots of potential suspects just based on the activity in the house. He could have even left some DNA and explained it away as he joined in on a party once. A lie most likely but not implausible.

The victims lives were not a mystery. Their activities played out on SM. If he did find one of the girls on line, it would be pretty easy to watch from afar.

It’s not impossible to believe that he heard about the parties and girls by word of mouth. Just listening to others tell about weekend plans and going to a party at the party house could have easily been communicated to BK.

His mistake was the sheath. You can’t explain away your DNA on a knife sheath that is found under the body of a dead girl who was stabbed to death in her bed. That you cannot explain away.

I do wonder if he was trying to emulate Ted Bundy. It’s just so shockingly similar to Chi Omega. Even the geographical location is reminiscent of Bundy. If we hear about bite marks of any kind in the future, that would seal the deal for me.

MOO

 

[jepop]

Could that be the reason he took his phone along? Was he establishing his alibi by taking a few pictures of the sky or whatever in the time immediately after the murders?

Or did he not turn it back on until he arrived back home?

Per PCA, unchallenged by defense in latest public hearing, he turned it on c20 mins south of 1122 at approx 4.48am and pinged off a tower that services Blaine ID. The phone is then in motion pinging back to Pullman via a south, south-westerly and finally north/north-westerly route where BK's Elantra is then captured on video first at 1300 Johnson Road, South Pullman at around 5.25am, before being captured numerous times in Pullman on the route towards Steptoe apartments. The camera captures coincide with the pings from his phone.

*P8 details Pullman camera captures from c 5.25am.
*2nd para p13-p14 details the movement of BK's phone between c4.48am and c5.30am. When the phone reaches 1300 Johnson Road Pullman, the white Elantra is captured by the camera at that address.

https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR29-22-2805/122922+Affidavit+-+Exhibit+A+-+Statement+of+Brett-Payne.pdf