4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #99

[INfisherman]

Agreed ! I'm sure I read something about his Father trying to find friends for him on his college campus? That was one of the saddest/scariest things I have read about this case. JMO.

Wow - potentially leading sheep to the wolf.

MOO

 

[Gigiky]

Wow - potentially leading sheep to the wolf.

MOO

O wow! You are so right!!!!

 

[Kemug]

BK had his daddy fly across the country to accompany him on the drive back for Christmas break when he could have just flown home and back to WA at the end of the break. I think he was still almost entirely dependent on his parents. His stab (oof) at independence in Pullman was short lived & did not end well between losing his TA position and committing a quadruple homicide. I think he was prepared to stay in PA with his parents had he not been apprehended.
Edited to add JMO!

I think his main aim then was to get his car the heck out of the Pullman and Moscow area. He certainly didn't want everyone and their dog noticing that he had a white Elantra. I don't know why he couldn't do that on his own though. Maybe he just couldn't afford the gas, and he knew dear old dad would pay.

 

[Sor Juana]

Unfortunately, there are numerous cases in criminal history where individuals have been wrongfully convicted based on false testimonies and coerced confessions. Examples include the West Memphis Three, Mailman and Gillespie, the Central Park Five, among others. It's important to remember that nothing can be definitively ruled out until the murder weapon is found and concrete proof is established. JMO

 

[INfisherman]

I think his main aim then was to get his car the heck out of the Pullman and Moscow area. He certainly didn't want everyone and their dog noticing that he had a white Elantra. I don't know why he couldn't do that on his own though. Maybe he just couldn't afford the gas, and he knew dear old dad would pay.

Long drive. Maybe drove in shifts to get home ASAP? I don’t recall how long they took from Pullman to home do you by chance? BK may have had it in mind to sell the car - old friend or hoped going out of state would muddle up LE tracking down the car as quickly through buy here pay here or maybe he knew of some shady folks back east. His hometown was 90min from Philly & 2hrs from NYC. Lots to consider for sure.

MOO

 

[MassGuy]

Unfortunately, there are numerous cases in criminal history where individuals have been wrongfully convicted based on false testimonies and coerced confessions. Examples include the West Memphis Three, Mailman and Gillespie, the Central Park Five, among others. It's important to remember that nothing can be definitively ruled out until the murder weapon is found and concrete proof is established. JMO

There is no confession, and there never will be a murder weapon. There are plenty of cases that have those elements, and have resulted in convictions.

Those cases you cite were incredibly weak, and are no comparison to this case.

I would trade both of those things (confessions/murder weapon) for the DNA evidence, cell phone evidence, and vehicle footage. I can't imagine what else they have, but I'm convinced that early into this trial, any skeptics will be changing their tune.

I'd argue there is zero chance of a false conviction here, because there is zero chance that Brian Kohberger is not a mass murderer.

 

[Gigiky]

Unfortunately, there are numerous cases in criminal history where individuals have been wrongfully convicted based on false testimonies and coerced confessions. Examples include the West Memphis Three, Mailman and Gillespie, the Central Park Five, among others. It's important to remember that nothing can be definitively ruled out until the murder weapon is found and concrete proof is established. JMO

I agree with you 100%,but with the evidence they have at this point it screams too me, If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, Its probably a duck. JMO.

 

[INfisherman]

It's important to remember that nothing can be definitively ruled out until the murder weapon is found and concrete proof is established. JMO

Regardless how the conversations may sound, I do not feel that the notion of innocent until proven guilty is lost on the majority of members here in this thread.

Murder weapons aren’t necessary to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, particularly when you have DNA on an object used to hold a weapon that was likely used to murder four people. Tough sell to jury if the case is as the state contends. Receipts or browsing history combined with the sheath & DNA may be just enough for some juries.

JMO

 

[LinasK]

Unfortunately, there are numerous cases in criminal history where individuals have been wrongfully convicted based on false testimonies and coerced confessions. Examples include the West Memphis Three, Mailman and Gillespie, the Central Park Five, among others. It's important to remember that nothing can be definitively ruled out until the murder weapon is found and concrete proof is established. JMO

You don't always get a murder weapon. Sometimes it can't be recovered, and there are plenty of other ways to kill that don't involve weapons: strangling, drowning, poisoning, pushing someone off a cliff... And the Central Park Five was a rape case.

 

[MassGuy]

You don't always get a murder weapon. Sometimes it can't be recovered, and there are plenty of other ways to kill that don't involve weapons: strangling, drowning, poisoning, pushing someone off a cliff...

I was just thinking about some of the major cases I've followed on here. Most didn't have a murder weapon recovered, and a couple didn't even have a body at the time of arrest (Stauch, Morphew), or at all (Dulos, Berreth).

 

[Arkay]

Unfortunately, there are numerous cases in criminal history where individuals have been wrongfully convicted based on false testimonies and coerced confessions. Examples include the West Memphis Three, Mailman and Gillespie, the Central Park Five, among others. It's important to remember that nothing can be definitively ruled out until the murder weapon is found and concrete proof is established. JMO

Had DNA collection and analysis been as available and understood then as it is now, those persons of interest would have been sent home with a handshake, confession or no. The DNA would have exonerated them.

For example, in the Central Park Five case, as the victim was not only beaten into a coma but violently raped, the DNA would have demonstrated the innocence of all five as soon as the results were in.

Their lawyers would have trumpeted the results.

But BK’s lawyers want the results banished.

That does not support the notion that BK is innocent.

IMO

 

[Arkay]

I agree with you 100%,but with the evidence they have at this point it screams too me, If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, Its probably a duck. JMO.

Yes, but IMO even more so than probably—- it is a duck BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT.

 

[mrjitty]

SBM

No, she did not say it directly, though you previously said that this is what she was alleging.
"At least this is what AT is alleging."
In fact she would not even answer the judge's question when he asked her directly.
JMO

The neighbor could be lying. BK could have lied to the neighbor. The neighbor may have misinterpreted what BK said. BK could have used a service for ancestry/traits only and not loaded the kit to a database that produces matches. He may have submitted a kit to ancestry or 23&Me which is not searchable by law enforcement because you can't load the profile developed by Othram on those two sites.

JN said in court that BK "has not asserted factually or through evidence that he was a customer to one of these databases". AT did not rebut that. I'm not sure how a random neighbor's comment that "he had some sort of DNA test" outweighs that, especially to support a theory that actually harms the defense case if true (that no IGG was done).
JMO

I have no doubt they did their own, but this argument doesn't make sense at all. In the eyes of the defense the IGG is the wrongdoing.
JMO

Yes, of course they do. But you said "IMO, if it is a partial STR or SNP, then the would explain why Othram couldn't do IGG." Othram is not working with a partial STR or SNP when they are conducting IGG. They develop a full SNP profile using genome sequencing.
JMO

If they were not able to build out a tree, it's likely because they are new, have a much smaller database to work with, and the profile did not generate enough matches.
JMO

Something that is creeping in to these cases is where the Motions and submissions are not for the Judge but the galley and social media.

AT by implication accepts the Judges statement but asks for a different framing. There is no legal point to alleging something to the judge via veiled references. That is not how the law works. If she thinks the FBI did not do IGG and instead searched in mysterious databases she can just say that. But she didn’t say that because she has no evidence of it.

I know you know this. Just want to add my theory as to why AT did that.

IMO

 

[Hannah3105]

JMO. But if BK went to all the trouble to make sure he didn't leave behind DNA I don't think he intended to rape anyone. I think it was pure rage. I can't help but think something happed with one of these victims that cause him to do this.

This is exactly what I think happened. I think he frequented the Mad Greek restaurant, at least once, and became obsessed with M. Either he felt she was rude to him and he was enraged, or he became fixated on her, or a combination. I think he laid in wait one day, waited for her shift to finish and followed her home…that’s how he became acquainted with the house. He then visited the house multiple times to spy on her (easy view of her room from the car park behind the house). I think he spent weeks obsessing over her social media too.

I think the fixation and fascination built and built and, through rage and jealousy of wanting that life and not being able to attract this kind of girl, he planned his attack.

All MOO.

 

[jepop]

Yes, but IMO even more so than probably—- it is a duck BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT.

A duck beyond a duck. Are we looking at a phenomenally large duck? Or perhaps this moves it to goosey territory.

 

[INfisherman]

A duck beyond a duck. Are we looking at a phenomenally large duck? Or perhaps this moves it to goosey territory.

You’re getting warmer…..


MOO

 

[jepop]

The first big thing was the police asking the public to look for a White Elantra (right model, wrong year set as we now know)

IIRC one was found in Washington state that got ruled out quickly.
In all that snow it could stay a snow a snow bank for months unnoticed.

Yeah that was definately the first big lead the public were aware of. I've always thought combined LE did such a good job protecting the integrity of investigation right up until the arrest, dealing with rumours, staying tight lipped.

From memory the public call for help with elantras was around Dec 7th. Although BK's fell outside that initial range of years, I imagine the Elantra revelation was a massive reality check for him. I think this would have been when paranoia, glove wearing and trash baggying went into top gear. Moo

Wondered if the prosecution will call BK's dad (maybe mum too ) to testify about that trip back home and the timing. I believe BK left Pullman with dad on about 13 Dec, within a week of that public announcement? I don't think we have any reliable info regarding when the decision to make that specific trip was made and also whether it had been planned as a fly and drive trip for the dad prior to the crime.

If BK's dad has been interviewed by LE (surely he has), and perhaps been a witness for the federal investigative GJ -(not the arrest GJ) I think he would have been asked when the plan to go by car was first raised and BK's role in the planning. If it happens to be BK made this arrangement on short notice with dad after 7th Dec to be on the road by 13th Dec, I'm sure P would want to bring that into evidence as suggestive of BK's consciousness of guilt. Moo

Just speculating but I wonder about this often and feel really sorry and bad for his mum and dad. What a nightmare for them. His dad seemed so proud in the video at Indiana traffic stop. Jmo.

 

[jepop]

You’re getting warmer…..
View attachment 562327

MOO

This duck is beyond reasonably stout. Jmo

 

[mrjitty]

There is no confession, and there never will be a murder weapon. There are plenty of cases that have those elements, and have resulted in convictions.

Those cases you cite were incredibly weak, and are no comparison to this case.

I would trade both of those things (confessions/murder weapon) for the DNA evidence, cell phone evidence, and vehicle footage. I can't imagine what else they have, but I'm convinced that early into this trial, any skeptics will be changing their tune.

I'd argue there is zero chance of a false conviction here, because there is zero chance that Brian Kohberger is not a mass murderer.

I mean he basically left part of the murder weapon at the scene with his DNA on it so there's that!

 

[ShastaDaisy]

Yeah that was definately the first big lead the public were aware of. I've always thought combined LE did such a good job protecting the integrity of investigation right up until the arrest, dealing with rumours, staying tight lipped.

From memory the public call for help with elantras was around Dec 7th. Although BK's fell outside that initial range of years, I imagine the Elantra revelation was a massive reality check for him. I think this would have been when paranoia, glove wearing and trash baggying went into top gear. Moo

Wondered if the prosecution will call BK's dad (maybe mum too ) to testify about that trip back home and the timing. I believe BK left Pullman with dad on about 13 Dec, within a week of that public announcement? I don't think we have any reliable info regarding when the decision to make that specific trip was made and also whether it had been planned as a fly and drive trip for the dad prior to the crime.
If BK's dad has been interviewed by LE (surely he has), and perhaps been a witness for the federal investigative GJ -(not the arrest GJ) I think he would have been asked when the plan to go by car was first raised and BK's role in the planning. If it happens to be BK made this arrangement on short notice with dad after 7th Dec to be on the road by 13th Dec, I'm sure P would want to bring that into evidence as suggestive of BK's consciousness of guilt. Moo

Just speculating but I wonder about this often and feel really sorry and bad for his mum and dad. What a nightmare for them. His dad seemed so proud in the video at Indiana traffic stop. Jmo.

I recall that there was an Elantra found somewhere near Eugene Oregon but it was quickly determined that it wasn't the vehicle in question.
When was BK let go from his TA position?
When did he know that he wouldn't be returning as a student or was there any indication that he was going to return for the next semester?
Did his dad know that he had lost his job as a TA or had BK not been informed about the situation before leaving for the road trip to PA?

*Edited to add link for white Elantra found in Eugene

Latest Info | White Hyundai Elantra found in Oregon registered out of Colorado

ISP says the white Hyundai Elantra found in Eugene, Ore. is registered to a female owner out of Colorado. Police say the woman is not involved in the murder.

www.krem.com