4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #99

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2 cents

All MOO


AT is not bending over backwards to get it thrown out. Instead, she's bending over backwards to show their work on how they did the testing to shine a light on the DNA.

MOO
In order to get it thrown out…

And yes, she’s bending over backwards, twisting herself into a pretzel; however you want to characterize it.

I actually thought there would be some meat on her argument, but it collapsed under even the slightest scrutiny.

It was embarrassing.

Hopefully we get a ruling this week.
 
All MOO

I disagree and believe that "and in this case" is referring to Hernandez. It's not. It's referring to "THIS case" which is People v. Kohberger.

All MOO
You’re right. She’s referring to the partial profiles developed from those unidentified males.

We obviously know it’s not referring to the sheath, as the context is clear here.

IMG_3144.jpeg
 
Yes, going home for break is a totally normal thing but if he planned to return why wouldn't BK have made the flight home and back himself? Why involve his father? Why, besides the murders and needing to get the Elantra out of Pullman/Moscow would he need to drive from Washington state to Pennsylvania, especially in winter? 2500 miles is about as long a drive as you could make here in the US, it's not like "home" was on the west coast or somewhere like Montana or Utah. It just strikes me as odd I guess and that's JMO
It also strikes me oddly that there was almost nothing in his apartment but a tv, some books and a bed. I mean maybe that wasn't all but there wasn't even a shower curtain. It's my belief that he did not intend to return to Pullman after the holiday break ended.
Again, MOO
quack quack
View attachment 562379
Makes absolutely no sense to me why Dad would fly one way and drive all those grueling miles back instead of BK just hopping a plane. It wasn't because it would have been cheaper after Dad's ticket, hotels, gas, meals, etc. BK was a 28 year old grown man, not a 19 yo college freshman.

I said in the beginning, he was feeling the heat due to leaving the sheath at the scene and then the car ID alert. He wasn't going to return to WSU, especially after his TA position was terminated as well.

A carry on bag and a backpack with his laptop and phone would have held all he needed to get through the Winter Break, he was going to be at home where he would have had access to anything else he needed. He had almost entirely all of his possessions in the car. It's simply not logical. <shrug>

JMO
 
I recall that there was an Elantra found somewhere near Eugene Oregon but it was quickly determined that it wasn't the vehicle in question.
When was BK let go from his TA position?
When did he know that he wouldn't be returning as a student or was there any indication that he was going to return for the next semester?
Did his dad know that he had lost his job as a TA or had BK not been informed about the situation before leaving for the road trip to PA?

*Edited to add link for white Elantra found in Eugene

BK leaves Pullman: "Court documents don’t specify exactly when Kohberger left his apartment in Pullman, Washington, about 10 miles from the crime scene. But the documents show his car triggered a license plate reader in Loma on Dec. 13. The route takes the father and son duo about 15 hours out of the way." <bolded by me for emphasis> Inside Idaho murders suspect Bryan Kohberger's unusually long route home to Pennsylvania

Notified he was let go of TA position: "On Dec. 19, the department informed Kohbrger that he “had not made progress regarding professionalism” and removed him from his position, the paper reported." Bryan Kohberger fired as teaching assistant before arrest in student killings
JMO: He must have known it was coming after all those meetings/reviews, and then the altercation on Dec 9 as indicated in the article. Not sure if his dad knew about this situation or not.

IMO with little to no doubt, BK was a person of interest by Moscow, PD late November/early December. If WSU id'd the white elantra Nov 29, they must have communicated with Moscow PD shortly thereafter. IMO The white sedan: How police found the man accused of slaying four Idaho students

IGG was just a "confirmation" tool, IMO. When they got his father's DNA from the trash, that was all the confirmation they needed for the arrest IMO.
 
Makes absolutely no sense to me why Dad would fly one way and drive all those grueling miles back instead of BK just hopping a plane. It wasn't because it would have been cheaper after Dad's ticket, hotels, gas, meals, etc. BK was a 28 year old grown man, not a 19 yo college freshman.

I said in the beginning, he was feeling the heat due to leaving the sheath at the scene and then the car ID alert. He wasn't going to return to WSU, especially after his TA position was terminated as well.

A carry on bag and a backpack with his laptop and phone would have held all he needed to get through the Winter Break, he was going to be at home where he would have had access to anything else he needed. He had almost entirely all of his possessions in the car. It's simply not logical. <shrug>

JMO
While I don't agree he was 100% sure about not going back. I do agree that he was likely heavily considering it.

Go home, watch the case slowly unfold from a couple of thousand miles away. Then take through New Years to decide.

The seemingly slow movement by LE in the case probably started to lull him into a state of complacency. Evident by the purported exchanges (or maybe the guy just can't control himself when he feels like he's being affronted, IMO) with students and his grad professors are not exactly the best ways to lay low.

But I bet his drive back home was probably sobering.

The picture the defense seems to be painting of the FBI's unruly independence (which i agree to some extent was the strategy IMO) does make me pause about the two stops in Indiana. Whether or not they were related to the case you figure it's why Kohberger dumped his trash next door and was wearing gloves in his kitchen.

The guy was probably coming apart at the seems. Glad they took him in when they did. No knock sounds about right.

All MOO.
 
2 cents

All MOO


AT is not bending over backwards to get it thrown out. Instead, she's bending over backwards to show their work on how they did the testing to shine a light on the DNA.

MOO

I do not believe that. I believe she wants to show the DNA is "ill gotten goods" not taken legally and wants to have the judge throw out this DNA so the jury cannot consider the DNA which in my book will put him on death row.

2 Cents
 
Yes, going home for break is a totally normal thing but if he planned to return why wouldn't BK have made the flight home and back himself? Why involve his father? Why, besides the murders and needing to get the Elantra out of Pullman/Moscow would he need to drive from Washington state to Pennsylvania, especially in winter? 2500 miles is about as long a drive as you could make here in the US, it's not like "home" was on the west coast or somewhere like Montana or Utah. It just strikes me as odd I guess and that's JMO
It also strikes me oddly that there was almost nothing in his apartment but a tv, some books and a bed. I mean maybe that wasn't all but there wasn't even a shower curtain. It's my belief that he did not intend to return to Pullman after the holiday break ended.
Again, MOO
quack quack
View attachment 562379
It doesn't strike me as odd BK would 1) go home for the long winter break 2) want a companion for the very long drive to the west coast and then back home to the east coast 3) want to have his car once he got to his parents' home for the extended break.

When I went to grad school I went to a school in the state where I was living. My fellow students who moved from farther away often involved their parents in their initial moves to school and no one I knew found that odd. The assistance was hardly like parents helping a freshman move into her dorm but it was assistance. I DID find it odd one student from several states away (female, about 25 yo) had her mother move with her! (She hadn't been living with her mom in her hometown.)

How little was left in BK's apartment doesn't seem odd to me either. We don't know how much stuff he had anyway. It's also true that in many areas, apartment complexes known to rent to students are robbed during school breaks when the tenants are expected to be away. So leaving stuff behind during breaks, particularly electronics, makes no sense. No clue about the shower curtain though!
MOO
 
Yes, going home for break is a totally normal thing but if he planned to return why wouldn't BK have made the flight home and back himself? Why involve his father? Why, besides the murders and needing to get the Elantra out of Pullman/Moscow would he need to drive from Washington state to Pennsylvania, especially in winter? 2500 miles is about as long a drive as you could make here in the US, it's not like "home" was on the west coast or somewhere like Montana or Utah. It just strikes me as odd I guess and that's JMO
It also strikes me oddly that there was almost nothing in his apartment but a tv, some books and a bed. I mean maybe that wasn't all but there wasn't even a shower curtain. It's my belief that he did not intend to return to Pullman after the holiday break ended.
Again, MOO
quack quack
View attachment 562379
It doesn't strike me as odd BK would 1) go home for the long winter break 2) want a companion for the very long drive to the west coast and then back home to the east coast 3) want to have his car once he got to his parents' home for the extended break.

When I went to grad school I went to a school in the state where I was living. My fellow students who moved from farther away often involved their parents in their initial moves to school and no one I knew found that odd. The assistance was hardly like parents helping a freshman move into her dorm but it was assistance. I DID find it odd one student from several states away (female, about 25 yo) had her mother move with her! (She hadn't been living with her mom in her hometown.)

How little was left in BK's apartment doesn't seem odd to me either. We don't know how much stuff he had anyway. It's also true that in many areas, apartment complexes known to rent to students are robbed during school breaks when the tenants are expected to be away. So leaving stuff behind during breaks, particularly electronics, makes no sense. No clue about the shower curtain though!
MOO
 
Yes, going home for break is a totally normal thing but if he planned to return why wouldn't BK have made the flight home and back himself? Why involve his father? Why, besides the murders and needing to get the Elantra out of Pullman/Moscow would he need to drive from Washington state to Pennsylvania, especially in winter?

Many students who go home for a month or longer take their vehicles with them. They need transportation at home and many families don't have multiple cars.

This is probably the most normal thing about this whole thing.

MOO
 
I do not believe that. I believe she wants to show the DNA is "ill gotten goods" not taken legally and wants to have the judge throw out this DNA so the jury cannot consider the DNA which in my book will put him on death row.

2 Cents

All MOO

Well the defense has asked what 22 or 23 times now for the DNA discovery and the prosecution just keeps ignoring the request. So AT definitely is interested in seeing how they came to the conclusion it's BK's DNA. The longer they go without showing the more it makes me think they may have manipulated it to match BK's DNA.

That's just my opinion.
 
All MOO

Well the defense has asked what 22 or 23 times now for the DNA discovery and the prosecution just keeps ignoring the request. So AT definitely is interested in seeing how they came to the conclusion it's BK's DNA. The longer they go without showing the more it makes me think they may have manipulated it to match BK's DNA.

That's just my opinion.
Hold it.

They manipulate the process to match BK’s DNA. Use that information to obtain warrants. Surreptitiously collect his DNA. And amazingly, it just so happens to match the sheath DNA?

Please make that make sense.
 
I think this would have been when paranoia, glove wearing and trash baggying went into top gear. Moo

RSBM. This is kind of a side question that I have every time I see mention of the fact that he was putting his garbage into baggies.

Why/how would that help with "hiding" his DNA? Was it just to put it in small bags so it was easy for him to smuggle it out of his parents' house, then dump in other garbage cans? Is it that or is there some other reason? If he's putting all his stuff that potentially has his DNA on it in a baggie, wouldn't that make it easier to find? (Find the baggie, find a trove of DNA vs. have your trash mixed in randomly with others' trash -- wouldn't that make it harder to isolate one person's DNA?) Plus it seems like ziplocking specific DNA-laden trash would preserve it more rather than it potentially being damaged/destroyed by mixing in with other trash (& getting wet or something...).

Sorry for this random question but I'm always confused about how ziplocking one's DNA-laden trash is seemingly some evasive move. I'm sure there's logic but in this situation the logic escapes me. Imo. I would appreciate any suggestions/ideas anyone wants to share. (I'm sure this is a Criminal Mind 101 level question & I feel like I'm failing the class. Lol.)
 

Makes absolutely no sense to me why Dad would fly one way and drive all those grueling miles back instead of BK just hopping a plane. It wasn't because it would have been cheaper after Dad's ticket, hotels, gas, meals, etc. BK was a 28 year old grown man, not a 19 yo college freshman.

I said in the beginning, he was feeling the heat due to leaving the sheath at the scene and then the car ID alert. He wasn't going to return to WSU, especially after his TA position was terminated as well.

A carry on bag and a backpack with his laptop and phone would have held all he needed to get through the Winter Break, he was going to be at home where he would have had access to anything else he needed. He had almost entirely all of his possessions in the car. It's simply not logical. <shrug>

JMO
I don't think he had that much with him. His vacuum, computer tower, and Fire TV Stick were found in the apartment. Remember that the search warrant was very specific as to what they were to collect from the apartment (see it here: https://d.newsweek.com/en/file/465464/bryan-kohberger-search-warrant.pdf) He and his dad must have had suitcases in the trunk of the car and I would think BK would have had his computer, maybe an iPad and cellphone but nothing indicates that he had emptied out his apartment and the backseat of BK's car did not appear to be loaded with stuff during the two traffic stops for "following too close."
From May 2023
View attachment 562212
I was not aware that traces of blood and a secret storage locker were found at BK's apartment in Pullman?!
Has this already been discussed?
This was discussed a long, long time ago and led to absolutely nothing. It was not a secret storage locker, it was the storage closet that was assigned to his apartment and it was unlocked and had nothing but dust in it. BK probably never used it. The traces of blood were on his pillow in his bedroom in his apartment and did not match any victims. Guys cut themselves shaving, it was probably from that. They also lifted a red stain from the counter in his kitchen which proved to be food. Despite searching and testing, absolutely no trace of the victims, not hair, fibre or blood or bodily fluids was found in BK's car, apartment, office or his parents home.
 
RSBM. This is kind of a side question that I have every time I see mention of the fact that he was putting his garbage into baggies.

Why/how would that help with "hiding" his DNA? Was it just to put it in small bags so it was easy for him to smuggle it out of his parents' house, then dump in other garbage cans? Is it that or is there some other reason? If he's putting all his stuff that potentially has his DNA on it in a baggie, wouldn't that make it easier to find? (Find the baggie, find a trove of DNA vs. have your trash mixed in randomly with others' trash -- wouldn't that make it harder to isolate one person's DNA?) Plus it seems like ziplocking specific DNA-laden trash would preserve it more rather than it potentially being damaged/destroyed by mixing in with other trash (& getting wet or something...).

Sorry for this random question but I'm always confused about how ziplocking one's DNA-laden trash is seemingly some evasive move. I'm sure there's logic but in this situation the logic escapes me. Imo. I would appreciate any suggestions/ideas anyone wants to share. (I'm sure this is a Criminal Mind 101 level question & I feel like I'm failing the class. Lol.)
We know his DNA wasn’t found in the trash LE collected. He stayed there for days, it should have been there. The only thing that makes sense to me is that he was separating his trash from theirs. He’d be concerned that touching his parents trash during the separation process, would leave his DNA behind (hence the gloves).

What he planned to do with his own trash, is anyone’s guess.

His using the neighbor’s trash late at night, also goes to his efforts to inhibit DNA collection.

The judge alluded to there being more going on than we know. Here’s a screenshot from a YouTube transcript from the most recent hearing.

IMG_3149.jpeg
 
It doesn't strike me as odd BK would 1) go home for the long winter break 2) want a companion for the very long drive to the west coast and then back home to the east coast 3) want to have his car once he got to his parents' home for the extended break.

When I went to grad school I went to a school in the state where I was living. My fellow students who moved from farther away often involved their parents in their initial moves to school and no one I knew found that odd. The assistance was hardly like parents helping a freshman move into her dorm but it was assistance. I DID find it odd one student from several states away (female, about 25 yo) had her mother move with her! (She hadn't been living with her mom in her hometown.)

How little was left in BK's apartment doesn't seem odd to me either. We don't know how much stuff he had anyway. It's also true that in many areas, apartment complexes known to rent to students are robbed during school breaks when the tenants are expected to be away. So leaving stuff behind during breaks, particularly electronics, makes no sense. No clue about the shower curtain though!
MOO
What was normal for you in grad school doesn't necessarily make it normal for all grad students all over America. Jmo

Moo, I suppose he may have been planning to go back assuming other events didn't intervene in the interim, ie such as his arrest. Though I'd speculate he would have been pretty paranoid at this point, not to mention the issues he was having with his professor. Really there's not a lot to incentivise going back. Imo he more likely would have withdrawn or suspended his studies.

One thing, I don't believe he would have planned to take his Elantra back there. I guess he would also have to break it to his folks about losing his TA position. If the position was tied to subsidised accommodation at steptoe he would need to find an alternate apt and probably get his folks to help fund that and find a new job. Not saying accommodation was tied to his TA position, IDK. But a legitimate question would arise about being able to afford it imo.

So he knew he'd lost his TA even if folks didn't (ditto for having committed the crime jmo); he could have cleared out apt of most of his meagre student belongings and left the fire stick and tv as a token to his dad. To create a temporary impression of intending to return. Speculation.
 
Driving cross country also attracts much less attention than walking around a giant building with security cameras everywhere as well as dealing face to face with TSA agents. He didn’t want the car left behind, out of his site. He also may have still been in possession of the KA-Bar, opting to try & get rid of it somewhere between Pullman & Albrightsville rather than obvious places near where he was known to frequent. Lots of rivers & garbage cans/dumpsters between WA & PA. Likely one within feet of every gas pump or around rest areas at which they stopped.

MOO
 
All MOO

Well the defense has asked what 22 or 23 times now for the DNA discovery and the prosecution just keeps ignoring the request. So AT definitely is interested in seeing how they came to the conclusion it's BK's DNA. The longer they go without showing the more it makes me think they may have manipulated it to match BK's DNA.

That's just my opinion.
The defense just spent two days arguing before the judge that the prosecution only had BK's name due to IGG. They spent two days arguing the prosecution had nothing before the IGG. Nothing includes a name.

So if they didn't have BK's name before they completed the IGG, how did they manipulate the IGG to match BK'? If you have the name, you don't need to do the IGG. You can just go do a trash pull and see if it matches.
JMO
 
SBM

No, she did not say it directly, though you previously said that this is what she was alleging.
"At least this is what AT is alleging."
In fact she would not even answer the judge's question when he asked her directly.
JMO
The word I meant to use was subtext. JMO.
The neighbor could be lying. BK could have lied to the neighbor. The neighbor may have misinterpreted what BK said. BK could have used a service for ancestry/traits only and not loaded the kit to a database that produces matches. He may have submitted a kit to ancestry or 23&Me which is not searchable by law enforcement because you can't load the profile developed by Othram on those two sites.

JN said in court that BK "has not asserted factually or through evidence that he was a customer to one of these databases". AT did not rebut that. I'm not sure how a random neighbor's comment that "he had some sort of DNA test" outweighs that, especially to support a theory that actually harms the defense case if true (that no IGG was done).
JMO
Why would the neighbor make this up especially knowing that revealing this kind of information could cause him to be called as a witness in this case? JMO.
I have no doubt they did their own, but this argument doesn't make sense at all. In the eyes of the defense the IGG is the wrongdoing.
JMO

Yes, of course they do. But you said "IMO, if it is a partial STR or SNP, then the would explain why Othram couldn't do IGG." Othram is not working with a partial STR or SNP when they are conducting IGG. They develop a full SNP profile using genome sequencing.
JMO

If they were not able to build out a tree, it's likely because they are new, have a much smaller database to work with, and the profile did not generate enough matches.
JMO
You are talking about Othram, not Buddie's DNA lab that opened 2 weeks ago. Othram, where LE goes with unsolved cases and cases where the state labs cannot get an answer, where the FBI goes when even they cannot get an answer. JMO.
 
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