4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #99

[MassGuy]

From May 2023

Bryan Kohberger 'broke into woman's apartment' to 'install cameras'

The 28-year-old criminology student had befriended a woman at Washington State University in Pullman, Washington, according to Dateline.

www.dailymail.co.uk

View attachment 562212
I was not aware that traces of blood and a secret storage locker were found at BK's apartment in Pullman?!
Has this already been discussed?

Unless the Daily Mail links to original reporting about something, or a sensational piece of information has been referenced in reporting from reliable outlets, then it's best to not only take their reporting with a grain of salt, but treat anything like that as being false until proven otherwise.

I'm following another case, and they always include specific debunked background information in any new reporting, because it was their own "scoop" at the time of the original reporting.

 

[Nila Aella]

So I was thinking about AT's multiplebombshells (IMO, my characterization) during the last hearings.

Admitting that LE's 1125 Ridge Road video definitively shows Kohberger's Elantra. This, after months of implying (IMO) he was stargazing and nowhere near the home on the night of the murders. This, after months of telling us (IMO) that it was the wrong white Elantra in the neighborhood. Now they want us to believe Ridge Road is DEFINITELY Kohberger in a white Elantra but all other Moscow white Elantra's is not him. JMO.

This is not what was said in the hearing.
JMO

Anyway, this is about the Amazon timeline, I was CURIOUS! So for anyone else who's curious, here we go.

First things first....gather all the dates that we know for sure. The Dateline episode airing date, the date in their reporting (rather Month), the date the Amazon warrant was issued. I needed to get a sense of when the Grand Jury was seated and when they indicted. The latter was easy, it was all over the news. If the former was all over the news too, it wasn't easy to find.

But AT helped out in her Motion to Suppress filing. At the bottom of every page we have this:

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2024/111424-Motion-Supress-Memorandum-Support-Amazon.pdf

And we know that it's been reported that his family suspected him of something and it's been reported that his parents participated in the Grand Jury proceedings. we don't know about his sister

FIRST ON CNN: Parents of Idaho student murder suspect have been subpoenaed to testify before Pennsylvania grand jury | CNN

The parents of Bryan Kohberger have been subpoenaed to testify before a Monroe County, Pennsylvania, investigative grand jury, according to a source familiar with the situation.

www.cnn.com

Bryan Kohberger’s sister feared he could be involved in Idaho murders before sudden arrest

Sources told NBC’s Dateline that the accused killer’s family searched his white Hyundai Elantra for possible evidence of the crime

www.aol.com

We know that the Amazon warrant was served on the latter date

https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR29-22-2805/090823-Order-to-Seal-and-Redact-Amazon.pdf

SO I think it's safe to assume that the mysterious person who revealed information that led to the Amazon warrants was subpoenaed on the former.

We know what Dateline reported and when it aired it's episode. So let's all line everything up.

Dateline NBC's Keith Morrison discusses Bryan Kohberger, Idaho murder case

Keith Morrison spoke with KTVB ahead of Friday's Dateline special "The Killings on King Road" about NBC's reporting to uncover new information in the case.

www.ktvb.com

They wanted everyone to know that they had "Exclusive Information!"

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/northwest/idaho/article275593651.html

And that they reported during that special that Kohberger bought a Kabar in April of 2022

Bryan Kohberger 'broke into woman's apartment' to 'install cameras'

The 28-year-old criminology student had befriended a woman at Washington State University in Pullman, Washington, according to Dateline.

www.dailymail.co.uk

TIMELINE

APRIL 26, 2023
Grand Jury subpoena issued to the source who gave the information that the defense does not want us to see. IMO according to the defense's filing.

APRIL 27, 2023 - MAY 7, 2023
Presumably, at some point in this window Kohberger's grand jury convenes and the person testifies and offers evidence that LE acts on.

MAY 8, 2023
Amazon warrant obtained by LE. If you're to trust AT's filing, LE uses information garnered from a Grand Jury witness to obtain the warrant. The defense argues that this evidence was out of scope of the subpoena.

MAY 17, 2023
Grand Jury returns it's indictment

MAY 19, 2023
Dateline airs their episode reporting the LE had evidence that Kohberger bought a knife that arrived in April of 2022

SUMMER, 2023
Amazon evidence returned. Which IMO means that LE probably has some physical printout or copy of this Amazon transaction before even reaching out to Amazon. I think someone printed out something for them. This is IMO. Because Dateline was so confident about the tip that they received that they reported that LE had the evidence even before Amazon responded to the warrant. This is my opinion and my interpretation.

NOVEMBER 2024
AT wants the evidence gone. I'm going to assume it's not a Monthly Subscribe and Save Tube Sock Order. JMO. Submits her court filing

JANUARY 2025
AT argues in front of the court. Let's be VERY VERY VERY VERY clear (IMO) about the jest of her argument. It wasn't that the Amazon stuff was not relevant to the case. That was never her argument. JMO. The Judge also makes a very clumsy (IMO) analogy about a TV (aka the knife, in my words, IMO) being involved in a murder and whether or not it's relevant. IMO he mind as well have said the word knife. JMO.

FLASHBACK

MARCH 20 - MARCH 30, 2022
BKs presumably doing some Amazon shopping. I think it's safe to say, IMO, that Kohberger checks out and empties his cart on March 30, 2022. Thats what the warrant tells me. JMO

APRIL 1 - APRIL 30, 2022
Kohberger presumably receives his Amazon package a few days later. Standard Prime shipping is 2 days.

It's not a stretch, IMO, to think if he ordered it on the 30th he would receive it on April 1 or later.

So all that to say: Dateline's reporting is so close to the Grand Jury subpoena and warrant that it bolsters their credibility in my eyes. And the dates windows line up.

All MOO

MTS Amazon

FACTS Pennsylvania law enforcement, along with officers from Idaho and the FBI, raided Mr. Kohberger’s parents’ home on December 30, 2022, and arrested him. At some point, an FBI agent subpoenaed Amazon records belonging to Mr. Kohberger’s account.1 On both December 30, 2022, and January 27, 2023, Amazon responded with records showing Mr. Kohberger’s purchases.

on April 26, 2023, Det. Mowery of the Moscow Police requested a warrant for the same information, telling the court that an unnamed FBI Special Agent had “located” requested information. The warrant was amended due to a date error and ultimately issued May 8, 2023.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2024/111424-Motion-Supress-Memorandum-Support-Amazon.pdf

JMO

 

[Nila Aella]

The prosecution didn't want to get into a thing where they're arguing about the evidence itself. It's easier and more prudent to basically say "even if that were true," which is what they did. This is not an admission that the investigations were wrong or anything.

Right. JN argued it wasn't illegal or wrong.
JN said: If that were true" to which the Judge replied/interjected: seems to be the evidence
They were addressing going through the backdoor of two sites.
JMO

If I recall, they started talking about a "third tower" while addressing another topic, before the judge advised they not go there, so as not to compromise the jury.

As I understand it:
The reason the Judge checked AJ was that the P is not supposed to introduce new evidence during a Motion for Franks. They are supposed to stick to the proffer. He stated the reason why in court, if they introduce new evidence then he has to grant a Franks. AJ did it again later in the hearing when talking about Ridge Road and cameras. Again the Judge asked where that was in the record.

JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

I have addressed this issues over many threads and linked articles in support. The DNA found on the sheath was male single source, no body else's was mixed in.

JMO

Nobody seems to be listening so let's say it louder.......

I have addressed this issues over many threads and linked articles in support. The DNA found on the sheath was male single source, no body else's was mixed in.

 

[Cool Cats]

There are people everywhere.
Transfer happens everywhere people go.
Person A can interact with person B and then Person B can travel to a different location and transfer person A's DNA, and only person A's DNA, onto an object.
For example, LAs DNA was transferred 3 hours after contact. What would have happened if his alibi was weak?
JMO

Knowing that there is unknown male blood found inside the house and on a glove just outside the house, I'd like more information on the sheath and blood.
JMO

This may not mean what you think it means. MOO
Waiting for more information.
JMO

We only have a result without complete details about the sampling or processing of the sheath.
JMO

How did it get there?
JMO

You are making up "what if's"

The evidence is there jury will see it.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Fair enough. So why doesn't the prosecution just show the work? Why is it a secret? Are we just supposed to believe the prosecution in a DP case? Why does the defense want the proof but the prosecution wants to keep it a secret? Kind of a red flag for me.

Because the hearing is not a trial. At trial, the prosecution will put up evidence to "prove" their case. Then the defense gets to cross-examine, put up other witnesses. The defense wants to try the case at the hearing level to get evidence excluded and never brought to trial. The prosecution has the responsibility to the people (It's Idaho v. BK) to protect evidence that should be brought up at trial. What they are required to do is turn over discovery so that the defense team knows what the evidence is. Edited to fix typo on "the."

 

[Rolypolyoly]

If he didn't buy anything relevant from Amazon, AT wouldn't push to suppress the records.

You learn a lot about what might be in evidence from the actions of the Defense.

Can't help but wonder if BK bought something before his plan for using it gelled, and therefore in his own name, or if he had a dummy account or borrowed one to hide certain purchases.

IMO it's all coming out in the wash.

All the things he was doing in the dark will be on full blast.

JMO

Could BK have been on his parents Amazon account? We shared an account with my daughter and son in law for many years. You still have your own log-in, but can make purchases, watch Prime or play music independently. I don't know if the main account holder would have access to your purchase history and be able to provide the history to LE but it's absolutely possible that BK's parents may have.
JMO

Agreed, I was quoting to say the same thing, except my adult kids just order stuff on my account as I'm the idiot that pays for prime, and they get it delivered to their address and use their own payment methods. So even though it's my account, I can see whatever they purchase if I want to (i don't lol) and could grant access to LE too, and it clearly shows which address the order was delivered to and who paid for it.

 

[Cool Cats]

Because the hearing is not a trial. At trial, he prosecution will put up evidence to "prove" their case. Then the defense gets to cross-examine, put up other witnesses. The defense wants to try the case at the hearing level to get evidence excluded and never brought to trial. The prosecution has the responsibility to the people (It's Idaho v. BK) to protect evidence that should be brought up at trial. What they are required to do is turn over discovery so that the defense team knows what the evidence is.

Plus there are gag orders everywhere, even under my bed ... LOL

And no side wants to reveal their entire case in pretrial Motions.

2 Cents

 

[Cool Cats]

Agreed, I was quoting to say the same thing, except my adult kids just order stuff on my account as I'm the idiot that pays for prime, and they get it delivered to their address and use their own payment methods. So even though it's my account, I can see whatever they purchase if I want to (i don't lol) and could grant access to LE too, and it clearly shows which address the order was delivered to and who paid for it.

I am glad my cats can't do that.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

This was a special military grade knife with a handle specifically made to keep your hand from sliding down to the blade.

BUT

It takes practice and BK was not in the military or even in a military reserve unit or even hired by the police.

So you could be correct that BK had blood on - not his hands - but on his gloves.

2 Cents

Here's a thought out of left field and not even MOO, just a left field thought:

The sheath was found under a body. it could be tested immediately and it turns out the DNA was found in a place that a killer might have missed, much like in the old days before people understood crime scene investigation, some killer would wipe off the gun but fingerprints were on the bullets.

The rest of the scene? A mess of blood from 4 victims and perhaps a perpetrator, body fluids from those 5 people, and DNA from maybe hundreds. A complex, messy crime scene that would take a lot of time to process. The sheath is what we know and it leads straight to BK. We have no idea what else was found at the scene. But that one bit of DNA puts BK with a knife sheath found under a stabbing victim's body. We may find he left a lot of other things behind, too.

 

[INfisherman]

Plus there are gag orders everywhere, even under my bed ... LOL

And no side wants to reveal their entire case in pretrial Motions.

2 Cents

<pushes out a dozen doughnuts>

Exactly - hide the strategies for as long as possible.

I am glad my cats can't do that.

On occasions, cats need gag orders as well. Helps with the furballs.

MOO

 

[StarryStarryNight]

This is not what was said in the hearing.
JMO

MTS Amazon

FACTS Pennsylvania law enforcement, along with officers from Idaho and the FBI, raided Mr. Kohberger’s parents’ home on December 30, 2022, and arrested him. At some point, an FBI agent subpoenaed Amazon records belonging to Mr. Kohberger’s account.1 On both December 30, 2022, and January 27, 2023, Amazon responded with records showing Mr. Kohberger’s purchases.

on April 26, 2023, Det. Mowery of the Moscow Police requested a warrant for the same information, telling the court that an unnamed FBI Special Agent had “located” requested information. The warrant was amended due to a date error and ultimately issued May 8, 2023.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2024/111424-Motion-Supress-Memorandum-Support-Amazon.pdf

JMO

This is from a motion filed by the defense.
Who labeled this “facts”? The defense team? That’s a laugh riot.
Defense teams file motions all the time and skew and misapply and mislead the facts to try and have things their way.
Defense motions are not sources of facts and should not be taken that way. They are meant to sway a judge and should be taken as no more than that.
The fact finding will be done at trial under sworn testimony, not by the defense attorneys.

 

[wendy44]

SBM

She did not say it directly, however, this information has been available on the internet in MSM since at least 2023 indicating that BK did indeed load his DNA to some database to find out about his ancestry:

No, she did not say it directly, though you previously said that this is what she was alleging.
"At least this is what AT is alleging."
In fact she would not even answer the judge's question when he asked her directly.
JMO

Idaho suspect Bryan Kohberger sent DNA for genetic testing to explore ancestry: neighbor

Bryan Kohberger told a fellow grad student that he explored his ancestry by submitting DNA for genetic testing – which could shed light on how investigators used forensic genealogy to zero in on th…

nypost.com

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article271252642.html

What would you make of this information and AT's comments? Do you think the neighbor is lying?

The neighbor could be lying. BK could have lied to the neighbor. The neighbor may have misinterpreted what BK said. BK could have used a service for ancestry/traits only and not loaded the kit to a database that produces matches. He may have submitted a kit to ancestry or 23&Me which is not searchable by law enforcement because you can't load the profile developed by Othram on those two sites.

JN said in court that BK "has not asserted factually or through evidence that he was a customer to one of these databases". AT did not rebut that. I'm not sure how a random neighbor's comment that "he had some sort of DNA test" outweighs that, especially to support a theory that actually harms the defense case if true (that no IGG was done).
JMO

IMO, AT may be using this to force the FBI to either prove they did an IGG or admit wrongdoing. By now, I'm pretty sure the defense has run their own DNA and done their own IGG on BK.

I have no doubt they did their own, but this argument doesn't make sense at all. In the eyes of the defense the IGG is the wrongdoing.
JMO

Yet Othram was unable to get any results from whatever they got from ISL so the FBI took over after only a week. In your opinion, what does that mean? By the way, Othram does do IGG/FGG, Carla Walker is probably their most famous case:

Yes, of course they do. But you said "IMO, if it is a partial STR or SNP, then the would explain why Othram couldn't do IGG." Othram is not working with a partial STR or SNP when they are conducting IGG. They develop a full SNP profile using genome sequencing.
JMO

If they were not able to build out a tree, it's likely because they are new, have a much smaller database to work with, and the profile did not generate enough matches.
JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

<pushes out a dozen doughnuts>

Exactly - hide the strategies for as long as possible.


On occasions, cats need gag orders as well. Helps with the furballs.

MOO

I love your posts fisher - I will take coffee with the doughnuts

 

[stemkb]

JH
is it material if you look at it in terms of where the car where the phone was in that seven minutes going a direction different than what your uh affidavit says it was going

AJ
the direction of travel like yes I I would say it was if it was found outside
of Pullman

AJ's response was more than adequate. "Yes, I would say it was" material if the vehicle was moving west outside of Pullman, but "it was not." The argument "assumes that cars can't change direction of travel." Indeed, depending on which route you take to Moscow, or how the defendant snaked his way around Pullman, it may have had to travel in the opposite for a brief period.

Then we receive apparent confirmation, for the first time, the defendant powered off his cell phone before leaving Pullman.

AJ: "We're assuming that the same cell phone, which was then turned off..."

AT did not challenge AJ's statement in her rebuttal.

[7:38:30]

 

[INfisherman]

I love your posts fisher - I will take coffee with the doughnuts

I appreciate that CC. All in the spirit of a smile or laugh now & then.

Yeah, about that coffee….the squirrels got into it & Lord only knows when they’ll be coming down from the caffeine high.

Appreciate your comments & common sense straightforwardness as well.

 

[Cool Cats]

So I was thinking about AT's multiplebombshells (IMO, my characterization) during the last hearings.

Admitting that LE's 1125 Ridge Road video definitively shows Kohberger's Elantra. This, after months of implying (IMO) he was stargazing and nowhere near the home on the night of the murders. This, after months of telling us (IMO) that it was the wrong white Elantra in the neighborhood. Now they want us to believe Ridge Road is DEFINITELY Kohberger in a white Elantra but all other Moscow white Elantra's is not him. JMO.

Anyway, this is about the Amazon timeline, I was CURIOUS! So for anyone else who's curious, here we go.

First things first....gather all the dates that we know for sure. The Dateline episode airing date, the date in their reporting (rather Month), the date the Amazon warrant was issued. I needed to get a sense of when the Grand Jury was seated and when they indicted. The latter was easy, it was all over the news. If the former was all over the news too, it wasn't easy to find.

But AT helped out in her Motion to Suppress filing. At the bottom of every page we have this:

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2024/111424-Motion-Supress-Memorandum-Support-Amazon.pdf

And we know that it's been reported that his family suspected him of something and it's been reported that his parents participated in the Grand Jury proceedings. we don't know about his sister

FIRST ON CNN: Parents of Idaho student murder suspect have been subpoenaed to testify before Pennsylvania grand jury | CNN

The parents of Bryan Kohberger have been subpoenaed to testify before a Monroe County, Pennsylvania, investigative grand jury, according to a source familiar with the situation.

www.cnn.com

Bryan Kohberger’s sister feared he could be involved in Idaho murders before sudden arrest

Sources told NBC’s Dateline that the accused killer’s family searched his white Hyundai Elantra for possible evidence of the crime

www.aol.com

We know that the Amazon warrant was served on the latter date

https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR29-22-2805/090823-Order-to-Seal-and-Redact-Amazon.pdf

SO I think it's safe to assume that the mysterious person who revealed information that led to the Amazon warrants was subpoenaed on the former.

We know what Dateline reported and when it aired it's episode. So let's all line everything up.

Dateline NBC's Keith Morrison discusses Bryan Kohberger, Idaho murder case

Keith Morrison spoke with KTVB ahead of Friday's Dateline special "The Killings on King Road" about NBC's reporting to uncover new information in the case.

www.ktvb.com

They wanted everyone to know that they had "Exclusive Information!"

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/northwest/idaho/article275593651.html

And that they reported during that special that Kohberger bought a Kabar in April of 2022

Bryan Kohberger 'broke into woman's apartment' to 'install cameras'

The 28-year-old criminology student had befriended a woman at Washington State University in Pullman, Washington, according to Dateline.

www.dailymail.co.uk

TIMELINE

APRIL 26, 2023
Grand Jury subpoena issued to the source who gave the information that the defense does not want us to see. IMO according to the defense's filing.

APRIL 27, 2023 - MAY 7, 2023
Presumably, at some point in this window Kohberger's grand jury convenes and the person testifies and offers evidence that LE acts on.

MAY 8, 2023
Amazon warrant obtained by LE. If you're to trust AT's filing, LE uses information garnered from a Grand Jury witness to obtain the warrant. The defense argues that this evidence was out of scope of the subpoena.

MAY 17, 2023
Grand Jury returns it's indictment

MAY 19, 2023
Dateline airs their episode reporting the LE had evidence that Kohberger bought a knife that arrived in April of 2022

SUMMER, 2023
Amazon evidence returned. Which IMO means that LE probably has some physical printout or copy of this Amazon transaction before even reaching out to Amazon. I think someone printed out something for them. This is IMO. Because Dateline was so confident about the tip that they received that they reported that LE had the evidence even before Amazon responded to the warrant. This is my opinion and my interpretation.

NOVEMBER 2024
AT wants the evidence gone. I'm going to assume it's not a Monthly Subscribe and Save Tube Sock Order. JMO. Submits her court filing

JANUARY 2025
AT argues in front of the court. Let's be VERY VERY VERY VERY clear (IMO) about the jest of her argument. It wasn't that the Amazon stuff was not relevant to the case. That was never her argument. JMO. The Judge also makes a very clumsy (IMO) analogy about a TV (aka the knife, in my words, IMO) being involved in a murder and whether or not it's relevant. IMO he mind as well have said the word knife. JMO.

FLASHBACK

MARCH 20 - MARCH 30, 2022
BKs presumably doing some Amazon shopping. I think it's safe to say, IMO, that Kohberger checks out and empties his cart on March 30, 2022. Thats what the warrant tells me. JMO

APRIL 1 - APRIL 30, 2022
Kohberger presumably receives his Amazon package a few days later. Standard Prime shipping is 2 days.

It's not a stretch, IMO, to think if he ordered it on the 30th he would receive it on April 1 or later.

So all that to say: Dateline's reporting is so close to the Grand Jury subpoena and warrant that it bolsters their credibility in my eyes. And the dates windows line up.

All MOO

Schooling this is alot of work, thanks. I wanted to know more about Amazon so I appreciate the time you put into this.

 

[jepop]

The neighbor could be lying. BK could have lied to the neighbor. The neighbor may have misinterpreted what BK said. BK could have used a service for ancestry/traits only and not loaded the kit to a database that produces matches.

Now I had to go read a New York Post (!) article, just to see what all the fuss is about!. The quotation from the neighbour is totally sparse. Absolutely should not be taken as factual or to be more than it actually is; a somewhat vague reminiscence of a neighbour. Jmo

When you have clear, unambiguous statements in court to the effect that defendant is not asserting being a customer of an IGG service and that no such info is in evidence for Franks and IGG MTS, the vague recollections of a neighbour (made in the highly charged context of BK's arrest, the 'excitement' of adding their bit to the emerging story), is simply irrelevant imo. This report proves nothing. Moo

If the neighbour is remembering accurately or not making it up, as reported it sort of sounds like BK could have been boasting. If so, stretches of the truth are easily possible, little white lies. Or as you say a more simple DNA test not involving an SNP profile being put into an IGG service. Jmo.

"Kohberger, who was a student in the university’s criminology department, asked whether the neighbor could identify his ancestral background, which the man guessed was Italy, the student told the paper.

But Kohberger responded that he was actually of German descent.

“He talked about his ancestors. He had some sort of DNA test. I don’t know how he got to that point. … It was just interesting to him,” the neighbor told the Statesman."
(my emphasis)

Idaho suspect Bryan Kohberger sent DNA for genetic testing to explore ancestry: neighbor

Bryan Kohberger told a fellow grad student that he explored his ancestry by submitting DNA for genetic testing – which could shed light on how investigators used forensic genealogy to zero in on th…

nypost.com

 

[ShastaDaisy]

Unless the Daily Mail links to original reporting about something, or a sensational piece of information has been referenced in reporting from reliable outlets, then it's best to not only take their reporting with a grain of salt, but treat anything like that as being false until proven otherwise.

I'm following another case, and they always include specific debunked background information in any new reporting, because it was their own "scoop" at the time of the original reporting.

Understood. There are multiple reports from this same time period.

Documents show areas in Idaho murder suspect's apartment likely tested positive for blood

Samples from an uncased pillow and mattress cover were positive for blood according to a chemical test, documents show.

www.krem.com

Newly released documents detail the search of Bryan Kohberger's home and office in Washington state hours after his arrest in Pennsylvania

By Jean Casarez, CNN Chemical tests for blood were done on over 60 reddish brown stains at Bryan Kohberger’s apartment in Pullman, Washington, on December 30, hours after he was arrested in northeastern Pennsylvania, according to newly released legal documents. Documents show a reddish/brown...

kesq.com

Cop on Idaho Murders Case Details Bloody Scene in Court Docs

Details redacted from the affidavit filed in Idaho were revealed in documents unsealed in Washington State.

www.insideedition.com

Newly released documents detail the search of Bryan Kohberger's home and office in Washington state hours after his arrest in Pennsylvania | CNN

Chemical tests for blood were done on over 60 reddish brown stains at Bryan Kohberger's apartment in Pullman, Washington, on December 30, hours after he was arrested in northeastern Pennsylvania, according to newly released legal documents.

www.cnn.com

 

[Charlot123]

She could probably use the other kind of fan to help spread what she’s attempting to throw into it.

Maybe not “spread”? A party house is a party house. <modsnip: No approved source re parents> Now out of two witnesses, we have one who looks like she is having issues. The other one we never saw. Some other males DNA is a question.

So with the frat across the street, maybe more mundane things were involved?

I have questions about the house and what was going on there before murders. Is it unreasonable? <modsnip - off topic> it is very realistic partying at colleges.