GUILTY Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #218

[al66pine]

Why No Hardball Questions?

This just occurred to me Mr. J…

If MSM tries to corner the defense & catch them with inconsistencies or pushing on them too hard in regards to their theories and/or evidence, that will probably result in the supporters of the defense being turned off by that particular outlet or interviewer. No one wants fewer clicks or comments these days & I personally feel that has quite a bit to do with why they’re being interviewed with kid gloves. Folks like you & I are far less "noisy" than those who support their narratives & approach. Ad revenue helps out the media & money talks louder than the truth or justice these days.

Another thought is the team is likely screening all questions beforehand & refusing to discuss certain aspects of the case in order to keep control of the narrative & help keep their strategy low key until they know more about the appeal. From what I understood, they are still assisting with some of that portion.

JMO

@mrjitty You posed a good question.
@INfisherman
Thx for post explaining a couple possible reasons which imo are applicable not just to this case, but generally applicable to MSM, podcast & similar interviews w prosecutor or def. atty.

1. INTERVIEWER does not want to offend or alienate VIEWERS/listeners
who believe the atty's already known position, for fear of loss of clicks, income, or both.
2. Beforehand as a condition of interview ATTY insists on screening Q's and/or refuses to answer re certain topics.
Hoping ^ does not mangle your lines of thought.

Let me toss in two other possibilities.
3. Asking hardball questions may cause not only this CURRENT interviewee to reject future invitations but may also induce POTENTIAL interviewees to decline as well. Who wants to be embarrassed about weaknesses in their case by an astute questioner?
4. Interviewer may NOT be sufficiently FAMILIAR w the facts or law in the case at hand to develop in-depth, analytical questions. Not saying this applies to the podcast being discussed in this thread.

And as I've not watched the entire podcast, actually not saying whether any of these ^ apply. Just general possibilities & jmo.

 

[Bekind89]

Be happy you don’t live in the same town where AB & JA practice. It’s embarrassing.

Lol! Not to mention how frightened one would have to be of the woodland cult.
I still can't believe anyone bought that ridiculous theory. It is insulting to our intelligence, but many did so here we are. Sigh.

 

[INfisherman]

Lol! Not to mention how frightened one would have to be of the woodland cult.
I still can't believe anyone bought that ridiculous theory. It is insulting to our intelligence, but many did so here we are. Sigh.

That’s what brought me here. I kept reading about Odinism in the newspapers & MSM articles online & was also seeing tidbits about KK being looked into. The story was becoming muddied & I felt the need to do some digging of my own in hopes of clearing the mud from the waters. Having a decent filter for utter BS tends to help quite a bit.

The defense team is starting to show who they really are in these interviews, if one pays attention to how they speak of things. It’s quite eye opening if you can stomach the sulphuric stench.

MOO

 

[Bekind89]

That’s what brought me here. I kept reading about Odinism in the newspapers & MSM articles online & was also seeing tidbits about KK being looked into. The story was becoming muddied & I felt the need to do some digging of my own in hopes of clearing the mud from the waters. Having a decent filter for utter BS tends to help quite a bit.

The defense team is starting to show who they really are in these interviews, if one pays attention to how they speak of things. It’s quite eye opening if you can stomach the sulphuric stench.

MOO

I simply can not stomach them and their cruelty and lack of empathy.
Did you see that photo of the bridge that they had blown up to poster size? The crime scene where two little girls were brutally murdered? They all happily signed it as if they were celebrities and then had a photo opt for the cameras/media.
I loathe them.

 

[Quim The Extraordinaire]

Would some nice person here kindly explain to me why it is that the RA supporters criticize everyone in this case except the defense attorneys? They praise the DT team as if they walk on water but the DT utterly failed,IMHO, to give their client a competent defense.
They cry about the harsh treatment, akin to torture according to them, that poor little RA suffered at the hands of a corrupt prison system, corrupt judge, corrupt LE, yet they never answer me when I ask them why didn't his attorneys protect him if this occurred? How many times and ways are you supporters going to allow these attorneys to blame the judge for their mistakes and allow them to take zero responsibility.
Sorry to vent, but I believe my attempt to understand them has bruised my brain.

This point interests me greatly.

IMO, the dissemination of information by Richard Allen supporters has been more of a coordinated marketing and PR campaign vs the usual discussion / analysis around cases that play out in the True Crime new mediasphere.

From a marketing perspective, there’s not much to work with re Richard Allen. He was accused of a heinous crime; he was incarcerated; no wealth of social media info was available to mine other than a few posts by KA; he had unpleasant mental health struggles preceding and after the murders; he later confessed multiple times; many trial attendees have noted off-putting mannerisms he has displayed.

Any marketing campaign needed proxies — defense attorneys fulfill that role — and issues beyond this crime — incaraceration of pre-trial detainees, for instance — to gain traction.

The “Making A Murderer” series is an example of this approach. In the Delphi case, the initial removal of the attorneys by Judge Gull unintentionally “goosed” this — now you had Judge Gull as a villain and the heroic defense attorneys willing to take the case pro bono.

So everything they did had to be the Best Defense Ever because they were the product, not Richard Allen.

IMO, MOO, etc.

ETA: puppy caused a too-early posting!

 

[Bekind89]

This point interests me greatly.

IMO, the dissemination of information by Richard Allen supporters has been more of a coordinated marketing and PR campaign vs the usual discussion / analysis around cases that play out in the True Crime new mediasphere.

Hired bots, and online supporters? I have suspected that as well.
I asked one of the passionately devoted supporters today if it is only RA's rights that concern him. What about the forgotten ones? The ones unjustly locked away with no media spotlight shining on them? Poor, forgotten, unfairly convicted.
Strangely enough I haven't received an answer yet, lol.
I doubt I ever will.

 

[INfisherman]

I simply can not stomach them and their cruelty and lack of empathy.
Did you see that photo of the bridge that they had blown up to poster size? The crime scene where two little girls were brutally murdered? They all happily signed it as if they were celebrities and then had a photo opt for the cameras/media.
I loathe them.

I saw it & thought it was pretty tasteless but that’s the kind of people they seem to be. Not the kind of people I prefer to be representing the state or area where one lives, but not much I can do about that. Noted to steer clear of the faces I recognize when out & about locally.

 

[Bekind89]

I saw it & thought it was pretty tasteless but that’s the kind of people they seem to be. Not the kind of people I prefer to be representing the state or area where one lives, but not much I can do about that. Noted to steer clear of the faces I recognize when out & about locally.

It just seems like so many people no longer feel shame, doesn't it? People who can feel or be shamed worry me.
On a positive note, RA will never be free again. It took seven long years and I had given up hope that this case would ever be solved.
I am also so glad for the people of Delphi.

 

[INfisherman]

It just seems like so many people no longer feel shame, doesn't it? People who can feel or be shamed worry me.
On a positive note, RA will never be free again. It took seven long years and I had given up hope that this case would ever be solved.
I am also so glad for the people of Delphi.

I don’t worry too much about anyone for whom I have little to no respect. I’m too old to concern myself with those types of folks. Others are much more deserving of my care, thoughts & feelings.

I’m happy for the girls, their families, the witnesses, volunteers & the normal folks around Delphi who can try to put this behind them & finally move forward & try to garner some peace, relief & sense of normalcy, if even possible. I’m especially pleased the victims helped put their killer into the light.

JMO

 

[Bekind89]

I don’t worry too much about anyone for whom I have little to no respect. I’m too old to concern myself with those types of folks. Others are much more deserving of my care, thoughts & feelings.

I’m happy for the girls, their families, the witnesses, volunteers & the normal folks around Delphi who can try to put this behind them & finally move forward & try to garner some peace, relief & sense of normalcy, if even possible. I’m especially pleased the victims helped put their killer into the light.

JMO

Yes, this case was absolutely haunting. This case and the Watts case. Oil tanks and old bridges, shudder.

 

[Cedars]

This point interests me greatly.

IMO, the dissemination of information by Richard Allen supporters has been more of a coordinated marketing and PR campaign vs the usual discussion / analysis around cases that play out in the True Crime new mediasphere.

From a marketing perspective, there’s not much to work with re Richard Allen. He was accused of a heinous crime; he was incarcerated; no wealth of social media info was available to mine other than a few posts by KA; he had unpleasant mental health struggles preceding and after the murders; he later confessed multiple times; many trial attendees have noted off-putting mannerisms he has displayed.

Any marketing campaign needed proxies — defense attorneys fulfill that role — and issues beyond this crime — incaraceration of pre-trial detainees, for instance — to gain traction.

The “Making A Murderer” series is an example of this approach. In the Delphi case, the initial removal of the attorneys by Judge Gull unintentionally “goosed” this — now you had Judge Gull as a villain and the heroic defense attorneys willing to take the case pro bono.

So everything they did had to be the Best Defense Ever because they were the product, not Richard Allen.

I think many people treat true crime the same way they treat sports - they choose "their" team and will stay loyal to that team no matter what. (And not just true crime).

Fortunately, the Western legal system is contructed to be indifferent to public opinion, except as expressed by a majority in elections. Even the word 'opinion', when use by a judge, means a deep exploration of legal precedents, not some off-the-top of their head, uninformed gut instinct.

IMO, social media is like the dogs in my neighbourhood: they set each other off and bark, bark, bark, utterly pointlessly. I don't listen to one as being a 'better, more important barker' than another!

JMO

 

[INfisherman]

IMO, social media is like the dogs in my neighbourhood: they set each other off and bark, bark, bark, utterly pointlessly. I don't listen to one as being a 'better, more important barker' than another!

RSBM

Don’t even get me started with that. <sigh>

 

[Bekind89]

I think many people treat true crime the same way they treat sports - they choose "their" team and will stay loyal to that team no matter what. (And not just true crime).

Fortunately, the Western legal system is contructed to be indifferent to public opinion, except as expressed by a majority in elections. Even the word 'opinion', when use by a judge, means a deep exploration of legal precedents, not some off-the-top of their head, uninformed gut instinct.

IMO, social media is like the dogs in my neighbourhood: they set each other off and bark, bark, bark, utterly pointlessly. I don't listen to one as being a 'better, more important barker' than another!

JMO

SM has been very damaging to society in many different ways. Please don't misunderstand me, I love having information at my fingertips. I am old enough to remember having to research and work for needed information. But SM has also given some people with bad intentions a platform to meet to other like minded people with the same interest and intentions and the ability to easily gaslight the gullible.

 

[gremlin444]

If any of the other jurors are on social media/YT/reddit at all, I suspect that they will not come forward and offer themselves up for interviews after seeing how people are treating the juror who agreed to an interview with The Murder Sheet.

The ones who think the height of wit and critique is to do videos/Tiktoks/podcasts where they read aloud excerpts from her interview using childish and ridiculous voices are just pathetic.

Many people would do well to remember that when the jurors took their first sounding vote among themselves, it was 8 guilty and 4 UNDECIDED. Undecided....not "NOT GUILTY"--including the juror who was interviewed. And no one can say they didn't take their job seriously--they spent hours recreating the timeline in a visual format and rewatching videos.

 

[Bekind89]

If any of the other jurors are on social media/YT/reddit at all, I suspect that they will not come forward and offer themselves up for interviews after seeing how people are treating the juror who agreed to an interview with The Murder Sheet.

The ones who think the height of wit and critique is to do videos/Tiktoks/podcasts where they read aloud excerpts from her interview using childish and ridiculous voices are just pathetic.

Many people would do well to remember that when the jurors took their first sounding vote among themselves, it was 8 guilty and 4 UNDECIDED. Undecided....not "NOT GUILTY"--including the juror who was interviewed. And no one can say they didn't take their job seriously--they spent hours recreating the timeline in a visual format and rewatching videos.

This what really frightens me, the fact that it appears that many people are trying to tear down our institutions. I fear that it could come to the point of people being too fearful to even serve on a jury because they fear being targeted and harassed by such people.
Many people in this case targeted innocent people, accusing them of involvement in the double homicide of two teenagers. Even when those people were cleared by LE and had solid alibis.
They are still going after a man with the mental capacity of a 12 year old child, as well as BW who did nothing more than drive to his mother's home that day.
The people who engage in this behavior should have to face legal consequences.
For goodness sake they still accuse poor KG of involvement in her own sisters murder.
I do not ever remember people being this openly cruel.

 

[Trebor5591]

Here is part of the jury interview I though was interesting, about how Allen would stare at the jurors:

Did you notice any of that from Richard Allen himself as he was sort of in the courtroom?

[Juror] (19:01 - 19:55)

So the eyes kind of that's something I noticed from even like jury selection. I'm like, wow, his eyes are very, I don't even know what word to use. Different, I guess. Surprising. But you know, that to me is like sometimes people he just has like some weird eyes. I don't think that makes him, you know, a murderer. So I would kind of like refrain from looking over there, I guess, because anytime we made eye contact, I would just look away really fast. And a couple of the other jurors, they would talk about how he's always staring like at us. And so they would start staring back and like not looking away until he did. Me personally, I would not really look a whole lot of times.

Juror_Interview

The Delphi Murders: First Person: A Juror: Part One [Juror] (4:10 - 5:03) With the summons, I was really, it's weird when we got the postcard sent. I wish I could remember. It was pretty early on, I would say, like August-ish even. And I guess, because I'm sure you guys know the trial was suppose...

docs.google.com

 

[Arkay]

@legalmomma

Thank you for posting the transcript of the juror who gave an interview.

I’m intentionally not on any social media because I would not be able to deal with the deluge of cruel, unhinged and hateful commentary that I understand swarms the comments sections.

I also do not follow any podcasts, so I often know less than others do.

I am gobsmacked reading here that abuse was heaped on the juror who spoke out.

We’ve all been so anxious to see behind the scenes of the jury deliberations, and I’m grateful that she gave us so much insight.

It is absolutely brutal that she came forth and has apparently been verbally abused.

She does seem young. I hope she is able to withstand whatever withering criticism she is receiving.

I infer of course that those who are abusing her are RA adherents. It seems there’s nothing that will dislodge these people from sticking up for this child murderer.

IMO

 

[snooptroop88]

Would some nice person here kindly explain to me why it is that the RA supporters criticize everyone in this case except the defense attorneys? They praise the DT team as if they walk on water but the DT utterly failed,IMHO, to give their client a competent defense.
They cry about the harsh treatment, akin to torture according to them, that poor little RA suffered at the hands of a corrupt prison system, corrupt judge, corrupt LE, yet they never answer me when I ask them why didn't his attorneys protect him if this occurred? How many times and ways are you supporters going to allow these attorneys to blame the judge for their mistakes and allow them to take zero responsibility.
Sorry to vent, but I believe my attempt to understand them has bruised my brain.

YES!! Because the D team cuddled up big time to the YouTube crowd, spinning a narrative with themselves as the ultimate "Men Of The People." We just want transparency! We're on a quest for the truth! Everyone is out to get our Ricky! Don't trust government! OMG, we had to do the investigation ourselves!! He's an innocent victim! Not to mention the ever-endearing, Please help us, before it's too late! Donate now!

(snipped by me) ...How many times and ways are you supporters going to allow these attorneys to blame the judge for their mistakes and allow them to take zero responsibility.
Sorry to vent, but I believe my attempt to understand them has bruised my brain.

It's looking like an infinite number of times, but jmo.

Thank goodness for the real victims that sanity prevailed.

 

[Bekind89]

YES!! Because the D team cuddled up big time to the YouTube crowd, spinning a narrative with themselves as the ultimate "Men Of The People." We just want transparency! We're on a quest for the truth! Everyone is out to get our Ricky! Don't trust government! OMG, we had to do the investigation ourselves!! He's an innocent victim! Not to mention the ever-endearing, Please help us, before it's too late! Donate now!

It's looking like an infinite number of times, but jmo.

Thank goodness for the real victims that sanity prevailed.

I now believe most of their supporters are paid online trolls and bots. Paid for by the ambulance chasing defense attorneys.
Because I refuse to believe that there are humans who actually support such people.
Lalalala, off in my own little reality where people are normal again.

 

[Vern]

Sorry @Niner, my SLE has pretty much rendered my arms and hands useless over the majority of the past month, but am updating everything I've missed in the docket for you just in case no one has posted them here as of yet.


12/18/24 - Defense Praecipe For Transcript

2024-12-18 - Defense Praecipe for Transcript - Initial Hearing held on 10-28-22 with Judge Diener - Richard Allen.pdf

drive.google.com

12/18/24 - Defense Sentencing Memorandum

2024-12-18 - Defense Sentencing Memorandum - Richard Allen.pdf

drive.google.com

12/19/24 - Defense Motion To Preserve Evidence

2024-12-18 - Defense Sentencing Memorandum - Richard Allen.pdf

drive.google.com

12/19/24 - Defense Motion To Refer To State Public Defender For Appointment Of Appelate Counsel

2024-12-19 - Defense Motion to Refer to State Public Defender for Appointment of Appellate Counsel - Richard Allen

drive.google.com

12/20/24 - State Motion To Seal Photos

2024-12-20 - State Motion to Seal and to Keep Confidential Crime Scene Photos and Autopsy Photos - Richard Allen.pdf

drive.google.com

12/20/24 - Abstract Of Judgement

2024-12-20 - Abstract of Judgment original - Richard Allen.pdf

drive.google.com

12/20/24 - Sentencing Order

2024-12-20 - Court Sentencing Order - Richard Allen.pdf

drive.google.com

12/23/24 - Amended Abstract Of Judgement Order Entered And Sent To DOC

2024-12-23 - Amended Abstract of Judgment - Richard Allen

drive.google.com

12/30/24 - Court Order Sealing & To Maintan As Confdential: Crime Scene Photos etc

2024-12-30 - Court Order Granting State Motion to Seal and Keep Confidential Crime Scene Photos and Autopsy Photos - Richard Allen.pdf

drive.google.com

12/30/24 - Court Order: DENIED (As Vague): Defense Counsel otion To Preserve All Evidence

2024-12-30 - Court Order Denying Defense Request to Preserve All Evidence - Richard Allen.pdf

drive.google.com

12/30/24 - Court Order: Defense Praecipe For Transcript Referred To State Public Defender For Review

2024-12-30 - Court Order Referring Defense Praecipe for Transcript to State Public Defender for Review - Richard Allen.pdf

drive.google.com

1/03/25 - Defense Motion To Appoint Two Appelate Attornys

_Order on Jan 3, 2025.pdf

drive.google.com

1/06/25 - Court Order: GRANTED: State Public Defender Motion To Appoint Two Appelate Attorneys

2025-01-03 - Court Order Granting State Public Defenders Motion for Authorization to Appoint Two Appellate Attorneys - Richard Allen.pdf

drive.google.com

1/08/25 - Acceptance Of Appointment And Formal Notice Of Appointment Of Outside Counsel

_Acceptance of Appointment and Formal Notice of Appointment of Outside Counsel.pdf

drive.google.com

1/09/25 - Order Of Record Concurring In Appointment

_Order of Record Concurring in Appointment.pdf

drive.google.com