Broken Window - to stage or not to stage?

[Lacy Wood]

It's amazing how far some who are so hell bent on hanging the Ramseys will stretch the truth, bend the lines and just plain make things up.

I noticed you (Zman) said in post 68 of this thread: "The only documented liar is FW who said he looked in the body room first and saw nothing." (The "bold" emphasis was yours.)

Would you provide the documentation that proves your point? Note that it will have to show both that the body was there at that prior time and that FW has admitted to lying since no one else "knows" what he saw. I hope you will do this, since otherwise what you accuse others of may apply to you.

 

[aussiesheila]

I believe John is telling the truth, and is as confounded by the door being blocked as the rest of us. Why, he is thinking, if the cops went down there, if Fleet went down there, is this door blocked? Surely if they went into that room it should not have been blocked for his visit! Is he wondering if Fleet blocked it after taking his walk through? Too bad there are no pictures , or are there, of this blocked door? We do know that Fleet admittedly opened the door to the wine cellar, and relatched it. Perhaps Fleet likes to leave things the way HE finds them?

Yes Sissi, I do agree totally with everything you have said here.

From my confounded position I would really like to start with the evidence of an independent witness namely Officer Rick French.

I am just not sure what his evidence is.

I suspect that he must have stated somewhere words to the effect

“At 6.05 am I went downstairs to the basement”

but has he ever said words to the effect?

“I entered the trainroom through a doorway that was blocked by a chair”

or?

“I entered the trainroom through a doorway that was not blocked in any way”

And what has he said about the window?
Has he ever stated that it was open?
Has he ever stated it was closed?
Has he ever stated he even went and looked at the window?

Could someone please post if they can find it, a copy of what Rick French HAS said. Not what an author of a book said he said but an original statement by Rick French. Thanks.

And WHEN were the photographs taken? Not when Lou Smit said they were taken but when the photographers said they were taken.

 

[aussiesheila]

Toltec,

Fleet carried a notebook and jotted down everything of significance that morning, butapparently made no note of a chair in front of the door nor an open window, or he would have said something to a detective.

BlueCrab

Oh REALLY BlueCrab, how can you possibly know this?

 

[Zman]

I noticed you (Zman) said in post 68 of this thread: "The only documented liar is FW who said he looked in the body room first and saw nothing." (The "bold" emphasis was yours.)

Would you provide the documentation that proves your point? Note that it will have to show both that the body was there at that prior time and that FW has admitted to lying since no one else "knows" what he saw. I hope you will do this, since otherwise what you accuse others of may apply to you.

It's just my "humble" opinion that the body was not moved. It's just to risky. This is not something you can put in your pocket and move. No, I don't know FW is lying. No more than anyone here as proven that JR is lying. In order to prove JR is lying about the chair you have to assume FW is telling or not telling as the case may be the truth. I see no reason to believe one over the other or to put words in OF and FW's mouth in order to make JR look like he's lying. I don't know if FW really looked in that room or not. I know he said he did and I know the body was found in there later and thats more "for sure" than any of the nonsense about the chair, door and the window.

Not to mention the window may of had nothing to do with the entry point to the home. The murderer could of snuck in behind the R's when they opened the garage door to come home. He/she may of been waiting for them to come home. This intruder may of had a key for all I know, heaven knows it seems like Patsy gave them out like holloween candy.

 

[Lacy Wood]

We have to guess he couldn't find the light switch, is this the same light switch he found on the 23rd to retrieve wine?
I can understand his not being a suspect, however claims that he is "normal" may be going a bit far.
Does anyone else in this case have "old family friends" accusing them of being involved in child rings?
I've never had any of my children hide from me so long that it required a 911 call. Sure they play, what 30 ..40 seconds before they start giggling and ya' tell the dog to find them. His "game" sounded more serious!
My husband has never helped "toilet" a girl child in the neighborhood either.
Most of us carry car insurance and would fear the consequences of not showing up for an assigned court appearance.
When joining friends for recreation ,most wouldn't put the tab on their friend consistently, this is "using".
It's quite easy to profile Fleet as sociopathic, however, I do agree ,he isn't the killer. His only concern was that he would be considered a suspect, he was looking out only for himself hence the reason for his rage. He was the one who "threw" his friends under that bus, he knows darn well they didn't harm their child.

Since I wrote the post using the word "normal", I feel obligated to correct the implication here. The word was only used to describe FW's "reactions", both to the apparent murder of JonBenet and the family's conduct afterwards. Perhaps that's why this post didn't use a quote since it would have been obvious. The context of the word has been changed apparently to justify a personal attack on FW, even to use the word "sociopath", while also stating he isn't a suspect or the killer. It is obvious the post is not intended to suggest a family association with "sociopaths", so it appears to be designed to attack FW for his suspicions. I find it very strange to suggest he created a "rage" to avoid being considered a suspect. The suggestion itself has the ring of "explaining away" and defensive argument. (If I believe my friends killed their little girl, I WILL be upset and angry, other rationalizations for my anger would be unjustified.) As for the throwing under the bus suggestion... I can only ask how "normal" it would be to cover for or cozy up to someone you suspect is a killer?

 

[tipper]

I don't know that I would use the word sociopath to describe Fleet. But his behavior in Atlanta is certainly not normal for an out of town guest attending a funeral. Particularly under these circumstances. I can't imagine how bad it must have been for his hosts to have to ask him to leave. In fact, I'm now wondering if he has a history of histrionics and that is why he doesn't have a job. Maybe he can't hold onto one because of his behavior. Doesn't make him a murderer but it certainly puts him on the "odd character" list.

 

[Toltec]

Fleet had every reason to be angry...His daughter's best friend was brutally murdered and her parents were avoiding the cops. They hire high powered defense attorneys...and they have the pit bull Susan Stine keeping the White's from talking to the Ramseys.

Fleet and Priscilla adored JonBenet. I don't understand why people cannot understand his anger towards her parents.

 

[sissi]

LW..I am suggesting he has a history of not "playing by the rules", both social and legal. Can anyone say this about John Ramsey?

 

[BlueCrab]

Oh REALLY BlueCrab, how can you possibly know this?

aussiesheila,

Fleet White took notes of almost everything that happened. From the 1998 interviews; the cops were questioning John what transpired that morning:

MIKE KANE: "Was Fleet talking to you at all during that?

JOHN RAMSEY: "Fleet was taking frantic notes, I remember that. I noticed that it was a yellow pad, and he was just writing, writing, writing, writing."

 

[tipper]

aussiesheila,

Fleet White took notes of almost everything that happened. From the 1998 interviews; the cops were questioning John what transpired that morning:

MIKE KANE: "Was Fleet talking to you at all during that?

JOHN RAMSEY: "Fleet was taking frantic notes, I remember that. I noticed that it was a yellow pad, and he was just writing, writing, writing, writing."

But how do you know what is in his notes?

 

[BlueCrab]

But how do you know what is in his notes?

tipper,

I never said I knew what was in Fleet White's notes.

 

[Voice of Reason]

tipper,

I never said I knew what was in Fleet White's notes.

Your previous post said that Fleet White never mentioned a chair blocking a door or an open window in his notes???

 

[sissi]

Hmm, did Fleet often grab a Ramsey notepad and start jotting down his observations?

 

[BlueCrab]

Your previous post said that Fleet White never mentioned a chair blocking a door or an open window in his notes???

VoR,

You left out the word "apparently" from my statement.

 

[Toltec]

LW..I am suggesting he has a history of not "playing by the rules", both social and legal. Can anyone say this about John Ramsey?

I would say as a Father, John was/is indeed not playing by the rules. When your daughter is viciously murdered...any NORMAL father would be camped out at the BPD...hounding them to get on the ball.

John Ramsey KNEW that the parents of a murdered child are the first suspects, but instead of going to Police Headquarters to clear himself, he hired high powered defense attorneys who prevented the cops from asking him questions.

 

[aussiesheila]

aussiesheila,

Fleet White took notes of almost everything that happened. From the 1998 interviews; the cops were questioning John what transpired that morning:

MIKE KANE: "Was Fleet talking to you at all during that?

JOHN RAMSEY: "Fleet was taking frantic notes, I remember that. I noticed that it was a yellow pad, and he was just writing, writing, writing, writing."

OK BlueCrab,
What I really meant is how could you possibly know that FW would have said something to a detective if he had found something of significance that morning.

 

[capps]

I would say as a Father, John was/is indeed not playing by the rules. When your daughter is viciously murdered...any NORMAL father would be camped out at the BPD...hounding them to get on the ball.

John Ramsey KNEW that the parents of a murdered child are the first suspects, but instead of going to Police Headquarters to clear himself, he hired high powered defense attorneys who prevented the cops from asking him questions.

Toltec,
IMO ... I believe his friend/lawyer did not do JR any favors,and made the whole situation a mess right from the get go.

I believe his friend/lawyer's conversation went some thing like this ... "You know John,I know you're not thinking straight right now and in immense pain,and want to help all you can. But if I must be straight with you ... I'm a lawyer,I have seen cases like this all the time. Your telling me you three were the only people in the house. They always suspect the parents first,they are going to pounce on every word you say and twist them to which ever way they want. Believe me,you need to what I advise you to do."

Bad lawyering,and too bad JR put his complete trust in all his lawyers,and didn't go with his gut feelings.Whatever those gut feelings were.

 

[sissi]

Toltec,
IMO ... I believe his friend/lawyer did not do JR any favors,and made the whole situation a mess right from the get go.

I believe his friend/lawyer's conversation went some thing like this ... "You know John,I know you're not thinking straight right now and in immense pain,and want to help all you can. But if I must be straight with you ... I'm a lawyer,I have seen cases like this all the time. Your telling me you three were the only people in the house. They always suspect the parents first,they are going to pounce on every word you say and twist them to which ever way they want. Believe me,you need to what I advise you to do."

Bad lawyering,and too bad JR put his complete trust in all his lawyers,and didn't go with his gut feelings.Whatever those gut feelings were.

Gut feelings are often right, just what were the "gut" feelings of the parents that morning? I remember Patsy thought the handwriting looked like LHP's, what was John's "feeling"? Does anyone remember?

 

[Cranberry]

Gut feelings are often right, just what were the "gut" feelings of the parents that morning? I remember Patsy thought the handwriting looked like LHP's, what was John's "feeling"? Does anyone remember?

I remember reading JR thought it was an "inside job"

 

[SisterSocks]

I remember reading JR thought it was an "inside job"

Inside job indeed. Wonder who John thought was from the inside?
Patsy? Nah She might be good for the note but, she didn't Kill JB.
I heard John Andrew was married ... Wonder if his wife is Blond? I have always wondered If John Andrew was involved. I know he was in Georgia, Burke was so small but it could have happened. In my opinion
John wasn't good for the crime. Maybe he found her at 9am in the broileroom behind the freezer,then moved her to the winecellar?