CA - Michael Morales in the '81 murder of Terri Winchell

jttnewguy said:
First of all, I should mention before I begin that I'm pro-death penalty. I used to work in the criminal justice system and have been personally involved in death penalty investigations.

But just to provide some balance to this debate, I'm going to explain what I believe the judge's side to be. Now, please keep in mind that I am playing devil's advocate here. I may or may not necessarily believe in or agree with what I'm about to write, I'm just presenting a different perspective for everyone to think about before they start hissing the judge and rah-rah-ing executions.

I know it's easy and emotionally satisfying to say that a guy who committed a brutal murder deserves to be treated the same way he treated his victim. But people have been committing murders since Cain killed Abel, or if you prefer, since the first caveman swung his tree-branch club into the head of another to steal his dinosaur meat. The issue is not what the killer deserves, because we all know he deserves something far more horrible than anything that will ever happen inside an execution chamber.

The issue from the judge's point of view is, how careless do we want our government to be? Remember, the government screw up a lot. This is the same goverment that people believe is filled with incompetent and uncaring bureaucrats who can't write social security checks correctly, can't be trusted to adminster a health care program, and buys toilet seats from defense contractors for $10,000 apiece. It's the government of IRS agents who audit you for no reason, the NSA spy program and Abu Ghirab prison.

And it's not so much better in criminal justice either. Because of advancements in DNA analysis, literally thousands of prisoners -- including more than a hundred who were on death row -- have been discovered to be innocent of the crime that our government charged them with, convicted them of, and held them in prison for decades for.

So, now that same government decides to put on an execution. And guess what? It screwed up again. It couldn't find a doctor to administer the medical procedure to kill the guy. So now the procedure won't work the way it's supposed to.

The point is not how much pain the guy deserves. In my opinion, he deserves a lot more than he'll ever feel. The point is that our democratically elected legislature established rules that the government is supposed to follow when it performs an execution. You may not like the rules (if you don't, then complain to your congressman who wrote the rules, not the judge who is only following them), but the rules say that lethal injection is supposed to be carried out in such a way that he'll feel no pain at all. And now those rules have been broken.

So, for those of you who think the judge is wrong, tell me, what's the judge supposed to do? It's his job to make sure the rules are followed. If those rules say (which they do) that lethal injection is supposed to be painless and that certain medical personnel are supposed to be present, then he's got no choice. He HAS to stop the execution. Because from his point of view, it's never OK for the government to break the law to kill a guy.

So anyway, I just thought that needed to be said before everyone gets carried away complaining about the judge and rooting for the guy to die in the most painful way posible. Some food for thought.
I agree with you jtt, (and welcome to Websleuths!) I don't think the judge is evil in this case. He accomodated Morales. By- the-way for everyone on this thread, we had already started a long thread on this guy's execution in the Parking Lot I believe...
 
linask said:
By- the-way for everyone on this thread, we had already started a long thread on this guy's execution in the Parking Lot I believe...


This thread was started when it was on the news.That is why the forum is titled "in the news".
 
So this could have been going on all of this time only no one has ever challanged it?

I don't see how a shot could be painful. And there is no way that the man who was supposed to get the lethal injection can prove that it would be painful. I think this is just a killer that didn't mind killing his victim in a horrible way but now that his time has come he doesn't want to die. And for some bogus reason he is getting away with it.

I think the governor should over ride the judges order and tell the killer to take it like a man and lay down on that gurney. There is no way he should get out of getting that injection. He is a cold blooded killer and his victim deserves this sentence being carried out.
 
Bobbisangel said:
So this could have been going on all of this time only no one has ever challanged it?

I don't see how a shot could be painful. And there is no way that the man who was supposed to get the lethal injection can prove that it would be painful. I think this is just a killer that didn't mind killing his victim in a horrible way but now that his time has come he doesn't want to die. And for some bogus reason he is getting away with it.

I think the governor should over ride the judges order and tell the killer to take it like a man and lay down on that gurney. There is no way he should get out of getting that injection. He is a cold blooded killer and his victim deserves this sentence being carried out.
Hello Bobbisangel,
It is very nice to see your post.Great post.:clap:
Thanks again for your post.
 
POSTED: 5:56 pm PST March 3, 2006
UPDATED: 10:46 pm PST March 3, 2006


SAN FRANCISCO -- California proposed altering its lethal injection protocol amid allegations its execution method causes prisoners too much pain and violates the constitutional ban on cruel and unusual punishment, prosecutors said in court Friday.

San Quentin State Prison wants to slightly change the composition of the three-drug death cocktail and the manner by which it would be injected in response to a lawsuit brought by a condemned prisoner.That judge, U.S. District Judge Jeremy Fogel of San Jose, didn't say whether he would approve of the new method to kill Morales or other prisoners, none of whom are scheduled to be executed. During a brief hearing Friday, he characterized the litigation as now being "a challenge to a protocol the state hopes to implement in the future."

California's chief death penalty prosecutor, Dane Gillette, said in an interview that the changes, made "after consulting experts," would ensure that a prisoner "would not experience wanton or unnecessary pain."In response to those allegations, the state on Friday altered the amount of the three drugs to be used and, most significantly, said it would continually drip a sedative into the prisoner to make sure he doesn't become conscious once the paralyzing and heart-stopping drugs are injected.Hearings were set for May 2 to determine whether California's method of execution amounted to cruel and unusual punishment. Those hearings will now focus on the new procedure. more at link:http://www.ktvu.com/deathrow/7664446/detail.html
 

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