CA CA - Valencia, 2 WhtFems UP4388 & 4389, 17-35, in riverbed near I-5, Jan'80

[EuropeanSearcher]

Let's say that being two there could have been some confusion...one of the Doe is now listed as not identified sex...
Karen Lee and Rodney Grissom?

 

[digitective]

So everyone's on the same page, the family of Pem Yates-Briggs believe that UP4389 could be Pem. She was reported missing last month and DNA has been submitted to compare. Fingers crossed!

	Valencia Jane Doe UP4389	Pem Michelle Yates-Briggs MP118850
Sex	Female	Female
Race	White	White
Age	17 - 24	16
DLC/DOD	1979	1979
Height	5'5 - 5'9	5'3 - 5'6
Weight	115 - 130 pounds	110 - 125 pounds
Hair Color	Unknown	Blonde
Eye Color	Unknown	Brown
Distinctive Features	Unknown/None	Crooked front tooth, cleft chin.
Circumstances	Found with UP4389.	Last known to be in California in 1979.
Distance	Unknown	Unknown

In the sketch above, it looks like Jane Doe has a cleft chin, too.

 

[LucyOso]

Let's say that being two there could have been some confusion...one of the Doe is now listed as not identified sex...
Karen Lee and Rodney Grissom?

This is not the first time this would have happened...

 

[jackornaught]

Not really. The remains were left in the Santa Clarita valley, adjacent to the Magic Mountain amusement park. Even back in the late 1970's that area was populated, although not as much as it is today. And it was only about 8 or 9 miles north of the heavily populated San Fernando Valley.

Anyone who's seen the 1983 movie National Lampoon's Vacation with Chevy Chase would recognize it as Wally World. NL's Vacation was filmed only a couple of years after these two UID females were found.

I just found this clip from the movie, and realized that as they are running through the parking lot, there is a treeline in the background. The wash where the two UID females were found runs just behind that treeline.

Vacation - YouTube

I just drove by there on Wednesday, and had that same "Vacation" discussion. It is also right along the I-5.

 

[Melt71]

Just dropping the ruleout lists here for UP4388. Although showing as 'Unsure' for biological sex, there are no Male ruleouts.

and UP 4389 (@SimsGuy67 Pem did eventually show up on the r/o list).

 

[UncoolNegated]

Pepper Reed (NamUs #MP150118) is a pretty good fit and is new to NamUs as of September 2025. Weight is spot on (both 115-130 estimates) and ethnicity is spot on. Some height discrepancy, but nothing too significant. That the Jane Doe was skeletal matches decomposition time if we assume Pepper died shortly after giving birth to her daughter in June 1976.

 

[snooptroop88]

I strongly suspect the woman in this Alcala image (left) is Debra Kidwell, Alcala image on left, Debra Kidwell is pictured in two images on right:

Were it either one of these two images of Debra alone, I'd agree with other posters I've seen on here at different threads and say no. Looking at the two images of Debra together, I think for me personally it's a very strong possibility it is indeed her, but it's jmo. Debra has the delicate features in the first image; Debra has the blonde pigtails in the second, and we get more of an idea of the full shape of her face. I know Debra had hazel eyes, and people say this girl in the Alcala images has blue eyes, but hazel eyes can photograph blue, and the woman in the Alcala image clearly has a good amount of soft blue eyeshadow, which I'd guess might further impact how her eyes photograph. (It's a shame we can't get shots showing more in terms of Debra's teeth.) I know Debra was ruled out for the first of the Valencia Does (4388), but I think she might actually be the second of the Valencia Does (4389). Debra Kidwell's a couple of inches shorter than the 4389 Valencia Doe (and she was an inch shorter than the Doe for which she's excluded), but personally, I think she may actually look a little bit more like that 4389 Doe, and these sketches are never perfect, they can't be. And the height's an estimation.

This is another Alcala image:

I see some posters on here noting Elizabeth Mary Byron:

I think there's a resemblance there, but it's impossible to know...?. It's jmo, but I see it. When I was going through the posts and saw this image of Elizabeth Mary Byron, I did think of this Alcala image. I see @SimsGuy67 is thinking of Elizabeth Mary Byron for Valencia Doe 4388. Think this is possible.

What would this mean if these victims really were in Alcala's "photo collection"? I don't know, and as of now, it's unlikely the case and impossible to prove. He's not known to have used a firearm, but he certainly must have been familiar with them from his time in the military. Debra Kidwell disappeared in May 1979, right before things began unravelling for him quickly. Elizabeth Mary Byron disappeared May 1978 and like Debra, disappeared from Ventura County.

Do think if LE unlocks the secret of these two particular Does, it will give them a wealth of information in terms of who was doing what, to whom, and where, in this timeframe, which is such an interesting one in terms of SKs. In the end, just hope these victims get their names back.

RIP.