FL - Multiple Fatalities at Mass Shooting at Madden Gaming Tournament, Jacksonville, 26 Aug 2018

  • #481
Baltimore Sun article:
In Howard County, parents of Jacksonville shooting suspect had been desperate to find psychiatric care for son

In Howard County, parents of Jacksonville shooting suspect had been desperate to find psychiatric care for son


As someone who has been an avid gamer for over 30 years, it saddens me that there are people, once again, looking to blame video-games for these kind of violent incidents. This event was Madden NFL prelim tournament, good old American football game competition. Even if it had been an action FPS or fighting/martial arts game tournament, it still really would not have had any relevance towards what happened.


This is a graphic of what kind of controllers gamers have typically used over the past few decades:

https://wh1k8zidop.inscname.net/games/images/1461010286_Video_Game_Controllers_Click

You push a few buttons or triggers, or move a joystick to move your character or a corresponding cursor or target on the screen. It's nothing like holding or using a real fire-arm. I don't know where that misconception came from. Even in the video arcades, where sometimes they use light guns for games like Time Crisis 5 or Big Buck Wild, it's like holding a huge empty plastic water gun. On the PC you often use your mouse and keyboard to play. In fact it's often the best for first person shooter games because of better precision.

Here is an interview with a survivor who questions the current motive being speculated about. He is one of the two people who beat Katz in the tournament over the weekend. He and the other person whom Katz lost to were not targeted in the shooting. So it's doubtful that it was simply a rage killing over his tournament elimination.


SM chatter is that Bread (Katz) had a longstanding rivalry with Trueboy and another gamer called Young Kiv . The latter had left the venue earlier, fortunately. It's far more likely this was premeditated and Trueboy and Young Kiv were the intended main victims, in my opinion, but this is not confirmed and should be taken as rumor only.

The players who compete in these tournaments can earn a decent living if they are competitive. Here is a breakdown of Madden Esports prize pools from 2017. You will note that Trueboy was a top ten earner, making $30,000 for that year, doing something he loved. He and Spotme were bright young men with bright futures cruelly cut short.

Madden NFL 2017 Prize Pools & Top Players - eSports Profile :: e-Sports Earnings

At least the gaming community is rallying around their devastated families and those survivors of the shooting who had to endure this terrible ordeal.



Another interesting headline:
Esports execs say don’t blame the games, blame US gun laws

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/esports-execs-say-dont-blame-the-games-blame-us-gun-laws/2018/08/29/e152aa7c-ab5f-11e8-9a7d-cd30504ff902_story.html

This last part of the article is quotable as a reminder of how big this entertainment industry is now:




To get an idea of just how big the interactive videogame industry is becoming globally, here is an article with some statistics. There are rumblings elsewhere that in terms of global revenue, videogame earnings outstrip the film and music industries combined. There's some debate over the methodology of what is included however (i.e. dvd sales or streaming?) so I'll just stick to this link :

Global Games Market Revenues 2018 | Per Region & Segment | Newzoo

I guess what I am trying to say is that video gaming is becoming as big as TV, films and music. Video-games are on our mobile phones, personal computers, consoles and other devices. In terms of an entertainment industry, it's a global juggernaut and only growing in terms of market revenue/participants and spectators.


Being an E-Sports athlete is now a viable respectable career choice, especially if you can land some lucrative sponsorship deals while competing in the high profile events. You can even take courses at some universities to become a professional.


It's possible that Katz' mentality was more akin to a disgruntled employee, angry at missing out on a job promotion he'd been counting on, resentful of certain other employees who were rising faster than he was. Undeserving of their popularity (in his mind). JMO, but it wasn't a spontaneous rage killing "over losing a video game" (in the same way as a road-rage incident can escalate to violence), it meant a lot more than that and was likely pre-meditated. If that makes sense.


Judging by the more recent articles which go into more details as to Katz' mental health problems and violent tendencies, it would appear that video-games had become an essential part of his identity and livelihood to the point of warping his priorities. That he would call the police to complain about his games being taken away by his mother, or punch his hand through a wall because he couldn't get to them is extreme. I get the sense that the mother did what she could to regulate his behavior, but that the father disagreed with her methods of managing both sons' behavioral/mental issues, which is why the divorce was so long and contentious. It does appear, however, that they did seek psychiatric help and treatment for him to some extent and were aware of his struggles but unable to turn the situation around in terms of the severity of his problems.It also would have become more difficult to insist on treatment options once he became an adult.

It's just tragic all around.

I'd like to end with this article which made me tear up a bit. It's important to keep a focus on the victims and the loss to their families and their communities.
Friends, family and fans mourn victims of Madden Jacksonville shooting

View attachment 145331

I agree - since he apparently had specific folks on his mind and this is like a football team (travel and familiarity with one another) my sense is this was more about knowing the ones he targeted for a while and those interactions resulted in built up feelings of rejection scorn ridicule as it relates to selection

Stressers and fatigue = big issue - driving down + playing two days in a row etcetc

do we know how long the actual assault lasted and how quickly he killed himself in the whole timeline?
 
  • #482
Shut down Madden and gaming. Today. Tomorrow. Forever.
 
  • #483
Shut down Madden and gaming. Today. Tomorrow. Forever.

This makes no more sense than shutting down schools, nightclubs, businesses, and concerts. It isn’t Madden or gaming that caused this shooting.
 
  • #484
The main deal is mental illness + = mass shooting

That may (or may not) be the case in the US but here in the UK 2 of our 3 well-known mass shooting events have been by individuals who were not known beforehand to have mental health issues.

Michael Ryan (Hungerford, 1985) seems to have had no prior contact with mental health services but a psychiatrist thought after Ryan's suicide that he might well have been schizophrenic and psychotic. At the age of 55 he was still living at home with his mother and was reported to be something of a mummy's boy.

Thomas Hamilton (Dunblane, 1996) showed some signs that he might have had mental health issues since he seemed to think others were persecuting him. However the main red flag about him was raised by a female police officer who visited him in connection with the renewal of his firearms licences and reported to her bosses that he seemed off and a bit creepy. She recommended that his licences be revoked but was overruled. Hamilton was a scout leader about whom there had been some complaints by parents and there was a suspicion that he might have been a paedophile.

Derrick Bird (Cumbria, 2010) is the only one of the three with known mental health issues, for which he had sought treatment at hospital. It's reported that he was beaten unconscious by customers in 2007 while working as a taxi driver and that he changed significantly after that. What is notable is that he had held a shotgun licence since the early 1970s and it was renewed several times without there being cause for concern. Given the beating he sustained, it seems possible that he either suffered a head injury or developed PTSD.

There are two other mass shootings which are much less well known.

Robert Sartin (Tyneside, 1989) used a shotgun to kill 1 person and wound a further 14. I've found no information about his mental health before this event but since then he's been in Broadmoor.

Barry Williams (later known as Harry Street) (West Midlands, 1978) Killed 5 and wounded 3. He was released from prison in 1994 but rearrested several years later following further firearms offences and later died in a secure hospital. After his first release he changed his name and moved to Wales where he managed to slip under the police radar during checks which is how he managed to get a new firearms licence.

Ryan, Hamilton and Bird were all middle aged. Williams was in his 30s and Sartin in his early 20s.
 
  • #485
This makes no more sense than shutting down schools, nightclubs, businesses, and concerts. It isn’t Madden or gaming that caused this shooting.

Or shutting down churches, or naval bases, universities, malls, hotels, movie theaters and so on. I agree that it's ridiculous to blame Madden NFL, EA, E-Sports or the electronic gaming industry in general for the homicidal actions of one disturbed individual. He got access to his firearms legally and he chose to gun down multiple innocent people then kill himself rather than face the consequences of his actions. There is no justification for shutting these tournaments down, except as a temporary measure to ensure stricter security measures are in place for future tournaments.
 
  • #486
Shut down Madden and gaming. Today. Tomorrow. Forever.

Yes, let's all become hermits and shut ourselves indoors all the time for all of eternity. Who needs sun or socialization or fun? Puny humans! *flexes superior alien muscle*
 
  • #487
Yes, let's all become hermits and shut ourselves indoors all the time for all of eternity. Who needs sun or socialization or fun? Puny humans! *flexes superior alien muscle*

do prinesspoops have superior alien muscles?

he he
 
  • #488
A propos of an earlier mention of esports being included as a demo at a forthcoming Olympics:

Esports will not be added to Olympics because 'killer games are too violent' says IOC president Thomas Bach

The International Olympic Committee will not consider adding esports to a future Olympics because they are “too violent”, president Thomas Bach has said.

The recent Asian Games saw esports included for the first time in its history, and with an apparent global audience of 320m people, it has gained serious traction to the point that inclusion in the Olympics does not seem so farfetched.

But the IOC’s president has played down that prospect, and drawn on the type of games that are currently available within esports as his main reason for not allowing it to be considered.

Esports 'too violent' to be considered for Olympics, says IOC president Thomas Bach
 
  • #489
He and Lanza have a very similar appearance. Something happens to the eyes. Holmes had strange eyes as well. What is that all about?

I agree and once you see it it’s easy to recognize. JMO
 
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  • #490
  • #491
I agree and once you see it it’s easy to recognize. JMO

I wish I knew exactly what caused that look. We'd need a mental health expert & doctor to chime in.
 
  • #492
Humm intersting

jmo

jmo

jmo

so we do not get all off topic

editing was good

no generalizations being made but I found it interesting the blond one struck me as he might have had a hard time younger socially

isolative distant no eye contact when intially meeting the outgoing one

just hit me

same thing when they were doing the end

most of the time social animals (like us!)have preparatory rituals for ending an activity when with others .

Think about like leaving a restaurant there is a social |ending | thing. A whole dance actually!

Same thing old days with normal phones -- there was a prep to end conversation

think about like T-Giving there are rituals that happen when people start to leave

and setting really

saying nothing about gaming

just struck me

made me think (blond one) it might result in turning inward when younger as a result of social stuff --

he appeared uncomfortable

jmo

Dave Grunfeld sits down with top Madden player Shay Kivlen
 
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  • #493
  • #494
That's sad.

Why?

I have nothing against gaming unless it interferes with ordinary life, but I can't see it has any place in the Olympics if darts and snooker don't. I'm a bit old fashioned and think that "sport" involves some form of significant physical movement.
 
  • #495
Why?

I have nothing against gaming unless it interferes with ordinary life, but I can't see it has any place in the Olympics if darts and snooker don't. I'm a bit old fashioned and think that "sport" involves some form of significant physical movement.

Out of curiosity, do you not believe shooting belongs at the Olympics? That requires less movement than darts and snooker. And probably gaming, too. It could also be argued that archery doesn't require much physical movement, either. I used to do archery, and modern bows don't even require you to hold the draw.

Some of the comments here are upsetting. The gaming community is in mourning. I don't think this is the time or place to make rude comments regarding gamers. Two young gamers died. They were working hard to make money - one for his future, the other for his young family.
 
  • #496
Out of curiosity, do you not believe shooting belongs at the Olympics? That requires less movement than darts and snooker. And probably gaming, too. It could also be argued that archery doesn't require much physical movement, either. I used to do archery, and modern bows don't even require you to hold the draw.

You make a good point about shooting. It doesn't involve much movement so I can see why you might liken it to gaming. However I'd argue that both it and archery involve physical strength and discipline. The IOC does keep the portfolio of sports under review and introduces or drops some from time to time. Maybe if they were considering a proposal today to introduce either shooting or archery neither might make the cut.
 
  • #497
Shut down Madden and gaming. Today. Tomorrow. Forever.

Shut down madden forever, lol. Maybe if GTA or similar was the game in question I could try to understand this perspective. But madden??? Idk, sometimes I feel such a disconnect on here bc it seems like my age demographic is a minority. If this had happened in 1992 my dad would probably blame duck hunt.
 
  • #498
Shut down madden forever, lol. Maybe if GTA or similar was the game in question I could try to understand this perspective. But madden??? Idk, sometimes I feel such a disconnect on here bc it seems like my age demographic is a minority. If this had happened in 1992 my dad would probably blame duck hunt.
I think that you may be correct about the age thing, but us oldies are not agreeing with him, either.
 
  • #499
I think that you may be correct about the age thing, but us oldies are not agreeing with him, either.

Lol I don’t mean to call anyone oldies. I just read posts like that and have to slap myself in the back of my head so my eyeballs don’t get stuck back there. If you knew my dad, you’d know I’m used to it. My dad would 10000% claim madden is a terrible violent game without knowing what madden even is. Just because it’s a video game and in the news. He wouldn’t bother to find out what the game entails - he would just state that madden needs to go! Now get off his lawn!
 
  • #500
And some of us oldies are gamers too: well-adjusted, world-traveled, balanced and stable family folks.

The mouthings of certain sorts on this thread is either to be belligerent for no reason other than to be a contrarian, and/or simply misguided and out of touch with modern life. Just ignore them and let them go back to shouting at "young whippersnappers on mah lawn!"
 

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