FL - Tracey Nix, two of her grandchildren died in her care in separate incidents (7mo in hot car Nov '22 & 16mo drowned Dec '21)

Ambien. Taking at Times Other than Bedtime?

@KSwizzle
I've missed many things so I hesitate to ask, but I'd appreciate link confirming that TN took Ambien (and/or other meds) during the day on the day of Uriel's death. Or other days? Anyone, pls?
again I can't provide link but in the discussion of first death it was reported that she took it and went to sleep as Ezra then found a way out and drowned. I did not hear that mentioned at all regarding the afternoon that Uriel was dying in the car.
 
Then I don't know what to make of what seems like something mentally off with her, and that it was the same forgetfulness her past employer recognized three yrs. prior to the sad events.
Thank you, I was just getting ready to ask if we knew how long ago it was when she was dismissed from that job. Do we know if that was when she decided to retire? Maybe instead of finding another job?
 
Termination from Employment. When?
Thank you, I was just getting ready to ask if we knew how long ago it was when she was dismissed from that job. Do we know if that was when she decided to retire? Maybe instead of finding another job?
@sunspun
Nov. 1, 2022......Uriel died.
Nov. 17, 2022.... Crim. charges were filed.
So the bond hearing must have bn after that, but IDK date.

About 4 pages of transcript, from bond hearing at links below.

One witness said she (IIUC?, the owner? of the "little school") said -
- The termination was "about 3 yrs" before the hearing.
- TN was employed at the "little school" for about a year.
- She wrote a letter to terminate TN.
- She had convo's w TN about the same time--- about lack of clarity, forgetfulness, failure to follow thru, etc.
- TN said, yes, she-TN "had noticed some things."
- She asked TN about whether she was on MEDICATION, etc.


IDK if TN was term'ed from public school district where TN had taught & served as principal for ~ 25 or 30 yrs. TN may have resigned voluntarily (or under pressure re her performance, IDK) & at that age & yrs of service, a vol. resignation would not be unexpected.

But seems imo THIS WIT. at bond hearing was not referring to a public school district. At p. 30, witness refers to "my little school" (sounds like a very small private school).
jmo
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https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/1736961527013-png.557800/. page 30
 
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...Do we know if that was when she decided to retire? Maybe instead of finding another job?

Sorry, @sunspun, I'm not able to answer that. Gathering background facts has been really hard on this case.

Just my thoughts here and MOO-- Apparently, as we see in the notes from the employer of the small school Tracey worked at for one year, Tracey was terminated for symptoms of forgetfulness, etc., Her employer documented exactly why. If Tracey did start applying for another job, then a future employer might've looked into that termination. It may have embarrassed Tracey. I honestly don't know how she felt.

Perhaps, but not fact, Tracey decided it was a good time to retire after her long, successful teaching career. Being terminated, what a blow to a highly esteemed teacher who dedicated her life to working with children. Tracey's professional reputation was stellar.

That's what bothers me about the turn of events. Tracey seemed to have a pristine, respected reputation until these unfortunate events. The employer of the small school must've felt it was necessary to let her go due only to some mental inability she kept observing in Tracey. Did anyone else ever express noticing some mental changes? Bothers me, I feel it should be mentioned maybe as a mitigating factor, but I don't think it will be allowed.

These events should be recognized as cautionary. Mental changes can happen to any of us due to conditions that sneak up on a person. Even hypothyroidism can cause extreme tiredness, brain fog, and confusion. Depression is another condition that can change abilities and personality. We can only hope someone notices and urges us to get help. Tracey's former employer did the right thing, and it may be the only documentation supporting the mental issues Tracey was having back then.

When her husband said she wouldn't talk at all about "the incident", I wondered if it was just that that she wouldn't talk about, or if she wouldn't really talk at all about anything?...
I don't know if her husband noticed things before the first or second tragic events taking the lives of the beloved children. Those events left big, noticeable changes that her husband noticed then and pleaded for help for her.


Nix’s husband, Nun Ney Nix, pleaded with Hardee County Judge Reinaldo Ojeda on behalf of his wife, saying that she needs treatment.

“I would just like to see her get help,” he said. “I would like to see her come back to whatever normal will be.”

He said his wife is a “very smart and intelligent person,” but something is clearly off.

“She has a psychology degree, but the fact that she’s not talking tells me she needs someone that can help her work through these issues,” Nun Ney Nix said.
 
I saw this clip and Dr. Diamond who was not permitted to testify makes a lot of sense. Confirmed the "high dose of Ambien" and other drugs that could have created this memory issue. He also met with her and after getting her off these drugs she is back to normal. There is no confirmation of any dementia or age related issues that would have caused this.
 
i go with Ney's last sentence.....he picks Uriel up and then "Tracey would pick up" which I think most would say means he goes upon his business which no doubt includes leaving the home and she is the caregiver. Clearly the lunch group was going to disband and Tracey would be driving Uriel to her house and watch until much later in the day. None of this is really up to question....these are facts as per the testimony. There was no defense used that said this day was a one off or unusual because it was the norm for this family.
This directly conflicts with statements by the mom. In spite of sworn testimony, there are many reports that are unclear in this case. I commend you if it all seems clear and understandable to you, because it is not clear to me how any of this transpired. Absolutely tragic for all involved, but it’s tragic to me how preventable these deaths seem. Jmo
 
I saw this clip and Dr. Diamond who was not permitted to testify makes a lot of sense. Confirmed the "high dose of Ambien" and other drugs that could have created this memory issue. He also met with her and after getting her off these drugs she is back to normal. There is no confirmation of any dementia or age related issues that would have caused this.

Then, it might be surmised according to Dr. Diamond that she was taking those Rx's when she worked at the small school, 3+ yrs. ago, and was terminated for those symptoms? After all, she had those symptoms way back then according to her former employer.

How long was she treated by Dr. Diamond? So, according to Dr. Diamond, it was all the drugs she was prescribed? Now, she's fine?

I don't imagine she was taking more than the prescribed dose. Many doctors now days hesitate to prescribe such drugs to geriatric or aging patients. In light of the two tragic events, I wonder if the prescribing dr. should've monitored his patient more closely.

MOO only, but it still doesn't answer why others didn't notice those symptoms and mental problems, in those 3-4 years then, and hesitate to let her drive and care for the children. Just so sorry for the whole family, good people, and the losses they suffered.


Prescription sedatives and some OTC sleep aids are risky, especially for older adults, says Leigh Ann Mike, Pharm.D., a clinical associate professor at the University of Washington's School of Pharmacy. Side effects can include dry mouth, confusion, dizziness, next-day drowsiness, and impaired balance and coordination.
 
Here you go Sir~

This interview is somewhat confusing. At one point towards the beginning, she speaks of son Ezra and how he drown in her care and how there has been no accountability for his death or answers and how she wants to look into that case and find out why it was not worthy of prosecution at that time.

It's as if she has always wanted accountability and answers from her mom but at the same time, also wanted to let the babysitting continue to occur despite the lack of accountability or answers from her mom?

I don't know, tough situation to navigate but also perplexing. She also mentions this has obviously torn some of her family apart (I understand the why's there) but also mentions she has some family who haven't spoken to her in 2 years over this. That I found very interesting. 2 years ago was before the legal battle occured, yes? No?
All these family dynamics going on- some make sense, others confuse me
 

Then, it might be surmised according to Dr. Diamond that she was taking those Rx's when she worked at the small school, 3+ yrs. ago, and was terminated for those symptoms? After all, she had those symptoms way back then according to her former employer.

How long was she treated by Dr. Diamond? So, according to Dr. Diamond, it was all the drugs she was prescribed? Now, she's fine?

I don't imagine she was taking more than the prescribed dose. Many doctors now days hesitate to prescribe such drugs to geriatric or aging patients. In light of the two tragic events, I wonder if the prescribing dr. should've monitored his patient more closely.

MOO only, but it still doesn't answer why others didn't notice those symptoms and mental problems, in those 3-4 years then, and hesitate to let her drive and care for the children. Just so sorry for the whole family, good people, and the losses they suffered.


Prescription sedatives and some OTC sleep aids are risky, especially for older adults, says Leigh Ann Mike, Pharm.D., a clinical associate professor at the University of Washington's School of Pharmacy. Side effects can include dry mouth, confusion, dizziness, next-day drowsiness, and impaired balance and coordination.

I don't think she was taking more than prescribed but per Dr. Diamond it was a high dose of Ambien together with the rest. In my opinion there is some investigation that needs to be done on the doctor or doctors involved. There is a real problem with over prescribing meds to seniors. Again my usual disclaimer...does not change the fact that she caused the death of Uriel.
 
Ezra's Death. LE's Reports* & Early Investigation.

I think I can see why the first death (Ezra's 2021 drowning) was not brought to trial, at least not back then.

One GENERAL point point may have been TN's image as law abiding, family loving, good citizen, middle class status, former teacher & principal, a retiree, w no crim record (presumably true). Easy to think "accident," maybe negligence but no "culpable negligence.

Then stmts to LE in the first couple weeks of investigation. These discrepancies & conflicting stmts from TN & husband caught my attention as being potential difficulties for prosecutor to overcome, right from day one.

1. G'pa said, when he left, Tracey was awake.
G'ma said: she was asleep, says, maybe the meds.

2. G'pa said he c/h/bn. gone "up to AN hour."
Later interview G'pa said, "about 2 hours.

3. G'pa said toddler could open (their) house doors.
Same day G'ma said toddler not able.
My Q: did LE interview them separately?

4. G'pa said he put "metal Dachshund doorstop behind the door," to prevent toddler from leaving, that day (& other times?).
G'ma said doorstop was to prevent cat from leaving. Toddler cannot open doors, so not needed for him.

5. G'pa said toddler does not like water, not like baths (w. brother).
G'ma said he loves baths.
6. G'pa said, would take him on "side-by-side" to see ducks & other animals at pond.

7. G'ma said, when she saw toddler was missing, she got in car, drove 343 ft down driveway, turned, drove 817 ft, then returned, thinking toddler could not have walked that far.
Hmm. Toddler was found about 340+ ft from garage door.

8. G'ma said, coming back in driveway, she does not know why, but she looked pond, saw something white. Thought it was not toddler, then knew it was.
My Q: When waking up & not finding toddler in house, w his love of baths, why did she not immed.'ly think of toddler being in pond? Per LE report: "A large pond that is stocked with ducks... within feet of their home." sbm

This series of reports in pdf has NO INTERVIEWS w Mother & Father about toddler Ezra's capabilities (reach) & likes (water? bath? ducks?). Seems odd imo if, a big IF, LE did not speak w them. Why not include info in reports?

Did LEO's responding to initial call that day have BODY WORN VID CAMS?
If so, either I missed it or that vid was not ref'ed in those reports.

Ditto the "FORMAL" stmts by TN & husband at LE STATION. Any aud/vid recordings?

I'm not commenting on the merits of possible crIm case, in earlier years or now. Just saying, seems the def. could have room to wrangle.
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* LE REPORTS here.
 
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Ezra's Death. LE's Reports* & Early Investigation.

I think I can see why the first death (Ezra's 2021 drowning) was not brought to trial, at least not back then.

One GENERAL point point may have been TN's image as law abiding, family loving, good citizen, middle class status, former teacher & principal, a retiree, w no crim record (presumably true). Easy to think "accident," maybe negligence but no "culpable negligence.

Then stmts to LE in the first couple weeks of investigation. These discrepancies & conflicting stmts from TN & husband caught my attention as being potential difficulties for prosecutor to overcome, right from day one.

1. G'pa said, when he left, Tracey was awake.
G'ma said: she was asleep, says, maybe the meds.

2. G'pa said he c/h/bn. gone "up to AN hour."
Later interview G'pa said, "about 2 hours.

3. G'pa said toddler could open (their) house doors.
Same day G'ma said toddler not able.
My Q: did LE interview them separately?

4. G'pa said he put "metal Dachshund doorstop behind the door," to prevent toddler from leaving, that day (& other times?).
G'ma said doorstop was to prevent cat from leaving. Toddler cannot open doors, so not needed for him.

5. G'pa said toddler does not like water, not like baths (w. brother).
G'ma said he loves baths.
6. G'pa said, would take him on "side-by-side" to see ducks & other animals at pond.

7. G'ma said, when she saw toddler was missing, she got in car, drove 343 ft down driveway, turned, drove 817 ft, then returned, thinking toddler could not have walked that far.
Hmm. Toddler was found about 340+ ft from garage door.

8. G'ma said, coming back in driveway, she does not know why, but she looked pond, saw something white. Thought it was not toddler, then knew it was.
My Q: When waking up & not finding toddler in house, w his love of baths, why did she not immed.'ly think of toddler being in pond? Per LE report: "A large pond that is stocked with ducks... within feet of their home." sbm

This series of reports in pdf has NO INTERVIEWS w Mother & Father about toddler Ezra's capabilities (reach) & likes (water? bath? ducks?). Seems odd imo if, a big IF, LE did not speak w them. Why not include info in reports?

Did LEO's responding to initial call that day have BODY WORN VID CAMS?
If so, either I missed it or that vid was not ref'ed in those reports.

Ditto the "FORMAL" stmts by TN & husband at LE STATION. Any aud/vid recordings?

I'm not commenting on the merits of possible crIm case, in earlier years or now. Just saying, seems the def. could have room to wrangle.
___________________________________
* LE REPORTS here.
Seriously doubt in a small town like Wauchula if they invested in body worn cams. Grandpa and Grandma are not on the same page that time at all with respect to either case and again I say this knowing we don't really know much about what really happened after either death.
 
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Host says many people feel unsatisfied with the verdict, and the understanding how it happened. Detective Alice Fletcher does seem to think it was mainly forgetfulness....
Watch Here:

There's different ways to look at these events, but without the prior mental issues as part of the reasoning, then you're left with the Rx medications prescribed, maybe not even abused, and just plain common forgetfulness.

I mean imagine having to do jail time for negligent forgetfulness? Imagine how hard it must be to believe for the child's parents? Or Tracey herself. Plus, there's two events, and both desperately need to be satisfactorily explained.

There's not much medical testimony or details to the investigations, so the facts are not firm especially in the first event.

It's been implied that her mind was a little scattered maybe from taking medications, but it was mainly that she forgot. That's what both Dr. Diamond and Detective Fletcher seem to settle on-- that there's been other cases of hot car child deaths caused by people forgetting becoming unaware of the child in the back seat of a vehicle. Completely forgetting for 2-3 hrs. It's hard to accept, but isn't that what it comes down to. Forgetting, unintentional, but must be seen as culpable negligence.
 
There's different ways to look at these events, but without the prior mental issues as part of the reasoning, then you're left with the Rx medications prescribed, maybe not even abused, and just plain common forgetfulness.

I mean imagine having to do jail time for negligent forgetfulness? Imagine how hard it must be to believe for the child's parents? Or Tracey herself. Plus, there's two events, and both desperately need to be satisfactorily explained.

There's not much medical testimony or details to the investigations, so the facts are not firm especially in the first event.

It's been implied that her mind was a little scattered maybe from taking medications, but it was mainly that she forgot. That's what both Dr. Diamond and Detective Fletcher seem to settle on-- that there's been other cases of hot car child deaths caused by people forgetting becoming unaware of the child in the back seat of a vehicle. Completely forgetting for 2-3 hrs. It's hard to accept, but isn't that what it comes down to. Forgetting, unintentional, but must be seen as culpable negligence.
I used to take a small dose of Ambien on all night flights and I once failed to make a connection in London and got a hotel and went to a show....that was obviously the result of a temporary lapse of memory and I was young. Next day resumed trip. I forgot to take my connection and thought I was at my final destination. It was brief lapse. At the time they gave higher MG to women than they do these days. It an be a dangerous drug. I think the RX usage has a role in this. Can't image taking Ambien with an SSR or one of the anti depression drugs.
 
...It an be a dangerous drug. I think the RX usage has a role in this. Can't image taking Ambien with an SSR or one of the anti depression drugs.

Thanks for sharing your experiences, @turaj. Did anybody else in your life notice you were having such side effects from the Ambien or was it up to you to figure it out?

I don't doubt that some, and a combo, of Rx drugs can really mess with a person's mind. I also think the Rx drugs Tracey was taking had something to do with her memory lapses.

After the first event, a serious Wake-Up Call for sure, she was getting the blame for what happened apparently. When did she start being prescribed those Rx's? Add that she had been let go from the last job for being forgetful and confused. I would think more attention would be paid to what medications she was on. I wonder how much notice was paid by others, and what she conveyed to her doctor, and her family members.
 

Thanks for sharing your experiences, @turaj. Did anybody else in your life notice you were having such side effects from the Ambien or was it up to you to figure it out?

I don't doubt that some, and a combo, of Rx drugs can really mess with a person's mind. I also think the Rx drugs Tracey was taking had something to do with her memory lapses.

After the first event, a serious Wake-Up Call for sure, she was getting the blame for what happened apparently. When did she start being prescribed those Rx's? Add that she had been let go from the last job for being forgetful and confused. I would think more attention would be paid to what medications she was on. I wonder how much notice was paid by others, and what she conveyed to her doctor, and her family members.
I was alone on that trip and used it only for a long over night flight...it never impacted anything ever again. Much different than
Tracey taking it during the day and high dose and seemingly on a regular basis. There is no question in my mind that she could at her age have lapses of memory due to Ambien. Also I can't imagine driving and taking it.
 
TN's Meds. What? How Long Prescribed? When Taken?

....
I also think the Rx drugs Tracey was taking had something to do with her memory lapses.

After the first event, a serious Wake-Up Call for sure, she was getting the blame for what happened apparently. When did she start being prescribed those Rx's? Add that she had been let go from the last job for being forgetful and confused. I would think more attention would be paid to what medications she was on. I wonder how much notice was paid by others, and what she conveyed to her doctor, and her family members.
snipped for focus @Curious Me Thx for your post w good questions.

See Det. Hart's summary* dtd Dec 30, 2021 re TN's "formal statement" that day.
Names of the MEDICINES that TN said she took are REDACTED.
I'm not sure why.
It appears to me there were two meds.
Does not appear that she told Det. what dosages.
She said she has taken them for about 15 YEARS.
ETA: This relates to meds. in Dec. 2021 when Ezra drowned.

Some posts here discuss Ambien & other meds, but I have not seen (or do not recall) any verification about what meds were prescribed back then - Dec. 2021. I saw media interview w Dr. D. shortly after verdict (IIRC, CtTV, but no link) in which he discussed med's & possible effects.

If there was something else, I could have missed it. Anyone?


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13 pages of LE reports, as displayed on "Scribd," are in this MSM article.
Summary of TN's Dec. 30, 2021 stmt is on pp 9-10.
 
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See Det. Hart's summary* dtd Dec 30, 2021 re TN's "formal statement" that day.
Names of the MEDICINES that TN said she took are REDACTED.
I'm not sure why.
It appears to me there were two meds.
Does not appear that she told Det. what dosages.
She said she has taken them for about 15 YEARS.
ETA: This relates to meds. in Dec. 2021 when Ezra drowned.... snipped to reply

Thank You @al66pine. Very helpful info. I found it and had to copy it to read or else it kept going to ads. (see spoiler) Wow, 15 yrs. I heard the pharmacist, I think he was, talking about the drugs outside the presence of the Jury. It was interesting, but I didn't pay it enough attention. I could swear he mentioned which drugs. I'll try to find it later. Honestly, I don't know what to make of her sleepiness and forgetfulness and the two events, and how the Rx's may be connected, or was she always so lax caring for kids, I doubt it. MOO

 
Thank You @al66pine. Very helpful info. I found it and had to copy it to read or else it kept going to ads. (see spoiler) Wow, 15 yrs. I heard the pharmacist, I think he was, talking about the drugs outside the presence of the Jury. It was interesting, but I didn't pay it enough attention. I could swear he mentioned which drugs. I'll try to find it later. Honestly, I don't know what to make of her sleepiness and forgetfulness and the two events, and how the Rx's may be connected, or was she always so lax caring for kids, I doubt it.

i am sure I heard the exact drugs too and there were a few that could impact short term memory. I think they have been redacted from all media and written records...I am sure Ambien was one and cymbalta might have been another. If anyone finds that record would love to see it. I can't find it but I know he listed them. He also said the scrips were all from one doctor which set bells ringing in my mind.
 
I haven't formed a firm opinion myself, but want to know more. Dr. Daniel Buffington, Pharmacist outside of Jury's presence gave a lot of info about the drugs Tracey was taking under prescription.
Safety warnings on drugs they prescribe warn to not drive, but they don't warn against babysitting your grandkids. Ryan Estevez, Geriatric Psychiatrist thinks it affected her alertness, etc., for a long period of time.
Caught it on Court TV, but I wasn't giving them my full attention and want to listen to them again too.
i am sure I heard the exact drugs too and there were a few that could impact short term memory. I think they have been redacted from all media and written records..

I got their names. I saw both those men, the pharmacist and the geriatric psychiatrist on a Court TV clip within a show. If only I could find it again. I have to go lay down with heat pad now to get rid of this reoccurring pain that plagues me.
 

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