Gilgo Beach LISK Serial Killer, Rex Heuermann, charged with 3 murders, July 2023

[Warwick7]

The link above is expired. Here are direct links to the documents:
Affidavid of Bruce Anderson
Statement of Evelyn Scalise
Statement of Joe Scalise
3 EBTs of Charles Hackett
2 Transcripts of Thomas Canning
Transcript of Justin Canning
Transcript of Caroline Hackett
Transcript of Charles Serota
Affidavid of Barbara Brennan
Transcript of Barbara Hackett
Transcript of Charles Hackett, Jr
Transcript of Joseph Brewer
Transcript of Michale Pak
Transcript of Mari Gilbert

John Ray Synopsis and Analysis
Opposition to Motion to Dismiss

Interesting read on John Ray's Synopsis and Analysis in regard to burlap sacks in connection with Hackett.

Altho now we know RH is been charged in that regard, it is still an extremely interesting legal document to read!

 

[HecatesDaughter]

You've certainly given this much thought and make some good points. Like you, I've wondered if perhaps the first kill was more accidental. But once he had cleaned up, disposed of the body and wasn't immediately discovered and arrested, he began enjoying remembering the event.

I don't know. He seems to have interacted with numerous SWs who were not killed. I wonder if it's something about a particular one that causes him to fantasize. I read about Neal Falls and the WVa woman. He drove 7 hours from the time of the first call until the encounter. Across those miles, he must have passed hundreds of other SWs just as eager for his money and better targets. Why this one?

When he arrived, he was ready to get straight to the killing. Just walked into her kitchen and "live or die?" I think the time to fantasize drove him to the kill frenzy - which may have led to his death as the timing was off and the victim not amply subdued. Just thinking as I type here.

So, transfer this to RH -- The 16 calls in three days with MBB.

Is that normal?

Interacting with Melissa Barthelemy for a week July 3-10 -- is that normally how the business is done? He had more time to fantasize.

The last two were more hurried - just a day between first contact and the meeting. But, I doubt that with Megan Waterman. That is the first mention of a brand new burner phone activated just that day. Who knows how many calls or how long on another phone?

Since he seems to have been seeing SWs regularly. Why kill only an occasional one? Some one has mentioned the time of year being a trigger . . . From their photos they don't really look much alike.

I just don't know.

Is the "getting to know you time" normal?

I'm curious about the 'getting to know' time line as well.

I do think you're onto something though with the fantasies I mean we all do it, even in minor ways. When I know I have a check coming and a cheat day I start thinking about what I'm going to order, then once I get it I can't wait to rip into whatever I've ordered. Think about when you think about vacations and how you 'just can't wait' to do everything you want to do and how sometimes you get so overwhelmed you don't know what to do first. It wouldn't surprise me if killers find themselves in similar situations, especially since I would think, they can't vent like the rest of us to just anyone, or anyone at all. So it would build and build and build until yeah, maybe as soon as they get the fly in the web so to speak they have almost no control and just pounce so to speak. They spend so much time controlling their urges that once they're so close there is no control anymore

 

[HecatesDaughter]

Welcome to WS!
what a whopper of a case to start on!

Well Thank you! I will say while I'm new to the website and tracking a case like this in my spare time. I'm not new to true crime. Once upon a time in my life I wanted to double major in criminology and psychology. Maybe be a forensic psychologist or profiler like my girl Candace DeLong, but my life went another way, not to mention with my Complex PTSD and anxiety issues I couldn't have been a police officer which is a per-requisite from my understanding. But I still love true crime and studying the whys and hows. And this says nothing but I did figure out the movie US in the opening credits. Surprised myself with that one.

 

[cenazoic]

RH -- The 16 calls in three days with MBB.

Not a sex worker or otherwise affiliated with that world, but I did spend an afternoon on the utopiaonline site.

The site mentioned above caters to men leaving reviews of providers, ads placed by providers, and other threads with topics of interest to the audience.

It seems common practice to use burners for one’s “hobby” (johns call themselves “hobbyists” or “mongers” - SW are “service providers”.). There may be multiple calls placed while a) leaving a message for the provider, call backs, setting up a meet, “I’m here” etc.

(Imo, extrapolation, etc)

 

[charminglane]

Not a sex worker or otherwise affiliated with that world, but I did spend an afternoon on the utopiaonline site.

The site mentioned above caters to men leaving reviews of providers, ads placed by providers, and other threads with topics of interest to the audience.

It seems common practice to use burners for one’s “hobby” (johns call themselves “hobbyists” or “mongers” - SW are “service providers”.). There may be multiple calls placed while a) leaving a message for the provider, call backs, setting up a meet, “I’m here” etc.

(Imo, extrapolation, etc)

Thank you for your research.
My searches have one less incriminating topic in the docket.

 

[HecatesDaughter]

I see conflicting statements in articles; some have said within an hour of his arrest, LE were in the home to notify his wife and children what was going on and also to take their passports and electronics.

One article said her divorce attorney stated her passport wasn’t taken, but left in the home during the investigation, rendering inaccessible to her.

Maybe the dates of the articles are off and one is updated information?

 

[cenazoic]

Thank you for your research.
My searches have one less incriminating topic in the docket.

Haha!

It was fascinating, in a queasy sort of way. Many of the posters are apparently married, and spend hundreds (or more) per month on their ‘hobby’. These seems to be a large element of risk-taking, which is part of the thrill. (According to my very amateur and likely statistically invalid analysis).

What I found most interesting during my brief peek was how many men seemed to say the woman’s personality as the most important part of their rating. An attractive woman who was otherwise not a good conversationalist, or warm, would generally be rated below someone less attractive but more engaging. (This is for women working out of hotels, btw, not so much women on the street.). Many men are looking for a provider who provides a “FGE” - full girlfriend experience.

 

[acutename]

.

Apologies if this is already shared. Creepy!

LISK podcast producers get a call from... possibly Rex H., claiming the aquarium owner is LISK.

MOO

Edited to add: I found this video because I recalled Amanda, who got calls from LISK, said that his "s" pronounciation stood out to her. I wanted to listen to him. And yeah, RH has a weird "s."

MOO

IMO some who really "worked with the police dept" would not be making this call

 

[Sincerely]

I have learned so much here and want to ask a question and possibly learn even more. I noticed that RH and Joseph Deangelo both made these terrible phone calls to their victims families. I believe I have read that some other serial killers have done the same or have taunted police. I get that it’s a part of the power they believe they have and enjoy inflicting pain but why do some do this while others do not? To me, there’s something very different about ones who do this. I just don’t know what that is. Any thoughts?

 

[Friday13]

Not a sex worker or otherwise affiliated with that world, but I did spend an afternoon on the utopiaonline site.

The site mentioned above caters to men leaving reviews of providers, ads placed by providers, and other threads with topics of interest to the audience.

It seems common practice to use burners for one’s “hobby” (johns call themselves “hobbyists” or “mongers” - SW are “service providers”.). There may be multiple calls placed while a) leaving a message for the provider, call backs, setting up a meet, “I’m here” etc.

(Imo, extrapolation, etc)

I went down that rabbit hole recently when someone posted a link to it. Never again. I found it leaving me feeling depressed, sad and empty.

 

[fred&edna]

I have learned so much here and want to ask a question and possibly learn even more. I noticed that RH and Joseph Deangelo both made these terrible phone calls to their victims families. I believe I have read that some other serial killers have done the same or have taunted police. I get that it’s a part of the power they believe they have and enjoy inflicting pain but why do some do this while others do not? To me, there’s something very different about ones who do this. I just don’t know what that is. Any thoughts?

I know what you mean. The infliction of torture extends beyond the initial victim.

I often think of the 1985 case of Sharon "Shari" Smith (kidnapped and murdered by Larry Gene Bell).

Ret. FBI Profiler John Douglas on Larry Gene Bell | A&E

Douglas shares how he turned Bell's tactics against him.

www.aetv.com

Larry Gene Bell - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[SonsOfCain]

You've certainly given this much thought and make some good points. Like you, I've wondered if perhaps the first kill was more accidental. But once he had cleaned up, disposed of the body and wasn't immediately discovered and arrested, he began enjoying remembering the event.

I don't know. He seems to have interacted with numerous SWs who were not killed. I wonder if it's something about a particular one that causes him to fantasize. I read about Neal Falls and the WVa woman. He drove 7 hours from the time of the first call until the encounter. Across those miles, he must have passed hundreds of other SWs just as eager for his money and better targets. Why this one?

When he arrived, he was ready to get straight to the killing. Just walked into her kitchen and "live or die?" I think the time to fantasize drove him to the kill frenzy - which may have led to his death as the timing was off and the victim not amply subdued. Just thinking as I type here.

So, transfer this to RH -- The 16 calls in three days with MBB.

Is that normal?

Interacting with Melissa Barthelemy for a week July 3-10 -- is that normally how the business is done? He had more time to fantasize.

The last two were more hurried - just a day between first contact and the meeting. But, I doubt that with Megan Waterman. That is the first mention of a brand new burner phone activated just that day. Who knows how many calls or how long on another phone?

Since he seems to have been seeing SWs regularly. Why kill only an occasional one? Some one has mentioned the time of year being a trigger . . . From their photos they don't really look much alike.

I just don't know.

Is the "getting to know you time" normal?

I think you’re on to something here. It could very well be possible that he chose those specific women over others because there was just something about them-whether it be height, face structure, age range, hair color, etc-that triggered the beast to come out and target them. Even Bundy had a specific “type” he looked for in his victims. Him not going after other sex workers he came in contact with could also be because his bloodlust was still sated from when he did kill. It could also be that allowing others to live, while some did not, made him feel like a god. It’s something that he could feel smug about and hold over their heads without anyone being none the wiser. I can imagine something like that would probably stroke his ego quite a bit.

As for the G4 and his obsession with them? That is a great question. My thinking is that if they were aware that he was going to kill him while they were alone with him (which is just a horrific thought on its own), they may have tried to humanize themselves to him in order to get him to let them live-“I have a family. I have kids. I have a boyfriend. They need me”. How many women have been told to try to use this as a bargaining tactic if they were ever put into this kind of situation? I can definitely see how gleeful he would have been knowing that he can extend his depravity to the women’s family and friends. Albert Fish was also known to write letters to the families of his victims where he stated in detail what their last moments were like.

 

[HecatesDaughter]

I have learned so much here and want to ask a question and possibly learn even more. I noticed that RH and Joseph Deangelo both made these terrible phone calls to their victims families. I believe I have read that some other serial killers have done the same or have taunted police. I get that it’s a part of the power they believe they have and enjoy inflicting pain but why do some do this while others do not? To me, there’s something very different about ones who do this. I just don’t know what that is. Any thoughts?

I think in some cases it speaks to a deeper sadistic streak in these people. The initial victim isn't enough, they have to relive it in various ways one of those ways being to torture the ones who were closest to and loved the victims. There are different kinds and levels of sadism just like anything else

 

[SonsOfCain]

One possibility is that he evolved from trying to sink some body parts (but some washed up), then tried mutilating identifying parts and scattering remains (but this was becoming obsolete with DNA, and some parts were found more easily than others) to dumping whole where body parts were not found (until they were in a small span of time) to ???? Abstaining from murder? or a new dump location?

That fits in with the stress timeline.

I used to doubt that the butcher/LISK were the same person. Now I'm beginning to change my mind.

I used to be fairly convinced that Shannan's murder was closely related to
GB4. Now, while I'm certain she was murdered, I'm not certain it is as closely related as I had once thought.

MOO

Exactly what I think as well! And from what we know about serial killers, they can and do evolve.

I personally do not think Shannon was one of his victims. I think she was murdered, but not by him. But it was Shannon who (inadvertently) led us to the other victims. If it hadn’t been for Shannon Gilbert, who knows how long they would have been out there until someone else found them? I truly hope there will be justice for her and her name will not fade into the background now that Heuermann has been caught.

 

[Friday13]

I think in some cases it speaks to a deeper sadistic streak in these people. The initial victim isn't enough, they have to relive it in various ways one of those ways being to torture the ones who were closest to and loved the victims. There are different kinds and levels of sadism just like anything else

I think you hit the nail on the head, I agree with you on this 100%

 

[Arkay]

I think in some cases it speaks to a deeper sadistic streak in these people. The initial victim isn't enough, they have to relive it in various ways one of those ways being to torture the ones who were closest to and loved the victims. There are different kinds and levels of sadism just like anything else

True when it’s a family member whom they taunt.

In other cases, IMO when they send cryptic letters to LE or to journalists, like the Zodiac Killer and Son of Sam, they enjoy toying with the investigators and believe they are smarter than them. Or in the case of the Unabomber, a manifesto rather than cryptic writings.

IMO the game is part of their satisfaction, beyond the actual serial murders.

 

[dotr]

Jul 24, 2023

Gilgo: Strangulation, Taunts To Family Common In Serial, Sexual Murders: Psychologist

Strangulation is about victim's controlled agony, while taunting is about torturing family members, expert says.

patch.com

''There is a reason behind why killers reach out and continue contact with a victim, their family, or others connected to the case, Schlesinger says.
“This is because they're sadistic,” he said. “They want to torture the family members.”
Because Heuermann is alleged to have said that he raped Barthelemy is not to be taken as truth, Schlesinger says.
“They lie all the time,” he said. “You can't believe anything they say.”
“I would give it no weight at all – anything he says – unless it's corroborated,” he added.''

Why Do Serial Killers Call Their Victims' Families?

The potential death count is now up to 10 for the possible serial killer currently known as the Long...

slate.com

2011
''When the Zodiac did speak on the phone, his words were concise, and appeared to be “planned and scripted.” Melissa’s mother told Good Morning Americ a that the phone calls to her daughter also sounded planned-he would not let her daughter have a word in edgewise.

The Long Island serial killer may be getting a distinct thrill from making these phone calls because he believes he’s not going to ever be caught-and he’s pushing boundaries. As an FBI report on serial murderers released a few years ago notes, ” As serial killers continue to offend without being captured, they can become empowered, feeling they will never be identified.”

 

[imstilla.grandma]

“I have this deep-seated conviction that he was likely lurking in the vicinity as the horrific discovery unfolded,” Dr. Bonn revealed.

“The magnetism of the event would have been too irresistible for him. Yet, there must have been an element of shock coursingthrough him, the realization that his secret graveyard had been discovered.”

“We must remember; he was active during this period. Two of the Gilgo four vanished in the latter half of 2010, and it was in December of the same year when the four bodies were found,” Dr. Bonn said.

“He convinced himself he was untouchable, that he would always elude capture. He indulged in his fantasies and followed his own news headlines to bask in the glory of it all.”

“Rex immersed himself in it so completely that I wager he was likely amongst the crowd, silently observing as the bodies were exhumed. Such individuals are marked by their grandiosity and extreme narcissism. They possess an inflated belief in their intellectual prowess, a belief that they are smarter than the rest of the world.”

Rex Heuermann Likely Present at Vigils, Searches in Gilgo Beach Murders: Expert

Did Rex Heuermann visit his ‘sacred ground’ at Gilgo Beach to feed his dark fantasies while surrounded by the unaware public?

www.yc.news

 

[Hansen]

I have learned so much here and want to ask a question and possibly learn even more. I noticed that RH and Joseph Deangelo both made these terrible phone calls to their victims families. I believe I have read that some other serial killers have done the same or have taunted police. I get that it’s a part of the power they believe they have and enjoy inflicting pain but why do some do this while others do not? To me, there’s something very different about ones who do this. I just don’t know what that is. Any thoughts?

I think it's for power, control, superiority, humiliation etc. I believe it also satisfies their sadistic desires.
This is a good read if you get time. It's long but thorough.

Serial Murder | Federal Bureau of Investigation

www.fbi.gov

 

[Charlot123]

I'm curious about the 'getting to know' time line as well.

I do think you're onto something though with the fantasies I mean we all do it, even in minor ways. When I know I have a check coming and a cheat day I start thinking about what I'm going to order, then once I get it I can't wait to rip into whatever I've ordered. Think about when you think about vacations and how you 'just can't wait' to do everything you want to do and how sometimes you get so overwhelmed you don't know what to do first. It wouldn't surprise me if killers find themselves in similar situations, especially since I would think, they can't vent like the rest of us to just anyone, or anyone at all. So it would build and build and build until yeah, maybe as soon as they get the fly in the web so to speak they have almost no control and just pounce so to speak. They spend so much time controlling their urges that once they're so close there is no control anymore

Maybe there is no uniform style? Israel Keyes said, you go with whatever comes your way or so, meaning, one can have the preferred style, but whenever the urge comes and the opportunity is there, he merely acts on it. So he ended up with many kill kits buried around the country, in case the urge would come, and they still don’t know how many victims he had.

Since you mentioned a check and orders, I remember my own shopping style. I have nothing else to compare to as I am very placid, but shopping is something else. So shopping - I don’t have the time to try the clothes on, better to overshop, then try at home and return half back. It is between an urge to buy and a lot of things around, and if I start choosing, I shall come home empty-handed.

But perhaps there are different shoppers? They shop only when they need something. Never overshop. Probably spend a lot of time researching. Finally when they buy they get exactly what they need.

Perhaps some killers are like this? Maybe they don’t leave kill kits all over like Keyes did, in case the urge is there. Perhaps they are not urge killers, and kill exactly the type they want to kill? Maybe they are more selective and do a lot of homework, including calling different sex workers, and knowing many, and when the type comes, they make their move?

RH looks like a hoarder, but maybe in killing, he was more selective? Then he might end up with fewer victims.

Just a thought.