Gilgo Beach LISK Serial Killer, Rex Heuermann, charged with 3 murders, July 2023

[ArianeEmory]

The only thing I'd caution is a lot of the reporting on Shannan's last morning seen a live comes from Pak's account. Since Kolker was ahead of a lot of sleuths and depositions, he gives Pak's statements more credibility than warranted.

Small counterpoint, don’t Pak and Brewer’s statements ultimately line up pretty well with the 911 audio? (Which they wouldn’t have had access to.)

 

[kittythehare]

Small counterpoint, don’t Pak and Brewer’s statements ultimately line up pretty well with the 911 audio? (Which they wouldn’t have had access to.)

They wouldn't have needed access to it, they were both there beside her and at least one of them was causing her massive fear and anxiety to the level that she requested rescuing..

 

[DS2021]

According to Josh Zeman from The Killing Season, it sounds like Peaches and her baby may be identified! More info may be released in two weeks

Skip to the 3 minute mark

 

[Warwick7]

Small counterpoint, don’t Pak and Brewer’s statements ultimately line up pretty well with the 911 audio? (Which they wouldn’t have had access to.)

They don't. MOO
I am 1/2 way through his deposition and each time I compare the 911 call to what I am reading, I shake my head.

 

[Charlot123]

It's not like a lightswitch, though. All offenders are capable of both disorganised and organised behaviour. Bundy's a good example to point to in that. While a lot of his behaviour was highly organised, he would medicate with alcohol, he would be impulsive, and towards the end, he exhibited decompensation that introduced a lot of uncontrolled, extreme overkill to his crimes, but also probably ensured he got caught.

A crime is a dynamic thing. The difference between if a scene presents as organised and disorganised could come down to intoxication, a passing mental health crisis, if a victim fights or behaves in an unexpected way (like escaping), if the perpetrator is disturbed in the middle of the crime.

We think of killers being meticulous and getting away with it for ages as being clever, but sometimes, it's striking something that works early on and doing it over and over without getting too clever about it, and being lucky enough to not get caught. Gary Ridgway and Samuel Little come to mind.

MOO

I have read an articles postulating that Ted Bundy had bipolar disorder, and his last stint during which he was caught was an episode of mania. Can’t positively comment, but it solidifies my feeling that keeping SKs alive and studying them makes more sense than DP. About Israel Keyes I am almost positive he had some bipolarity. No one pushed him to talk about all his “feats”. It is as if after arrest, he became so impulsively talkative that he simply couldn’t keep it inside, and it accelerated and then, culminated in suicide. A very disorganized episode in the life of a highly organized killer, what does it imply?

So I wonder whether SKs make mistakes not as they get older, nor “towards the end” of their careers, but whether they are cyclical in their behavioral patterns, and make mistakes during especially bad episodes. It makes sense to me as most SKs I read about are people of high control, and episodes of total dyscontrol intercalating in their behavior might indicate some emotional imbalance.

One article that I read, about the seasonality of human behaviors, when suicidal peak falls on spring and homicidal - on summer, points the need to study the “killing patterns” of SKs depending on the seasons, and whether the level of their organization changes with the seasons, too.

Was Ted Bundy Diagnosed With A Mental Illness? | Oxygen

Ted Bundy is one of the most well-known serial killers in the history of America. Known as much for his horrific crimes — he killed more than 30 people that investigators know of — as his allegedly charming demeanor, Bundy remains an oft-examined figure in the world of true crime.

www.oxygen.com

This article raises more questions than answers but is also deeper

The Making and the Breaking of the Serial Killer

What kinds of factors make and break the serial killer? A look at Conduct Disorder, addiction, and the frontal lobes of psychopaths could hold some answers.

www.psychologytoday.com

 

[Ruminations]

They don't r

Small counterpoint, don’t Pak and Brewer’s statements ultimately line up pretty well with the 911 audio? (Which they wouldn’t have had access to.)

I find Pak and Brewer to be inconsistent with themselves and each other. Pretty astonishing being that it was a night that they lived, and had to replay again and again in their minds considering that a woman was last seen alive then.

The stories about the blood-curdling scream are not consistent with each other. And their behavior- silence- is ridiculous if they're motives were innocent. Ordinary people would spring into action and possibly restrain her then, not to hurt her but to help her if she were really screaming at nothing.

MOO

 

[Ruminations]

Does anyone know if any of the victims connected to RH and those he's not been connected to were HIV positive?

I'm curious: why do you ask?

 

[kittythehare]

I have read an articles postulating that Ted Bundy had bipolar disorder, and his last stint during which he was caught was an episode of mania. Can’t positively comment, but it solidifies my feeling that keeping SKs alive and studying them makes more sense than DP. About Israel Keyes I am almost positive he had some bipolarity. No one pushed him to talk about all his “feats”. It is as if after arrest, he became so impulsively talkative that he simply couldn’t keep it inside, and it accelerated and then, culminated in suicide. A very disorganized episode in the life of a highly organized killer, what does it imply?

So I wonder whether SKs make mistakes not as they get older, nor “towards the end” of their careers, but whether they are cyclical in their behavioral patterns, and make mistakes during especially bad episodes. It makes sense to me as most SKs I read about are people of high control, and episodes of total dyscontrol intercalating in their behavior might indicate some emotional imbalance.

One article that I read, about the seasonality of human behaviors, when suicidal peak falls on spring and homicidal - on summer, points the need to study the “killing patterns” of SKs depending on the seasons, and whether the level of their organization changes with the seasons, too.

Was Ted Bundy Diagnosed With A Mental Illness? | Oxygen

Ted Bundy is one of the most well-known serial killers in the history of America. Known as much for his horrific crimes — he killed more than 30 people that investigators know of — as his allegedly charming demeanor, Bundy remains an oft-examined figure in the world of true crime.

www.oxygen.com

This article raises more questions than answers but is also deeper

The Making and the Breaking of the Serial Killer

What kinds of factors make and break the serial killer? A look at Conduct Disorder, addiction, and the frontal lobes of psychopaths could hold some answers.

www.psychologytoday.com

I'm wary.

I do see a moral and ethical rationale for justifying the study of cancers and other physical diseases in the interest of curing or at least providing more effective treatment or analysing actual treatment received.

I cannot subscribe to the removal of brains from evil people.
serial killers are not a homogeneous group.
No more than thieves or angry people in general..

I'm interested in the genre of it.. and I do believe in the phenomena of copycat killings, these are credible and evidence backed.
Brain disease and mental illness is best left in the hands of the psychiatric community.

jMO

 

[DetectiveDraper]

I'm curious: why do you ask?

Because if could be a motive or what made him start killing to begin with, along with other issues like narcissism or sociopathy.

 

[Mzsnazzi]

See, I think so too. That’s why I asked. I had thought I’d read that with his hoarding he must be a disorganized but the more I read, the more organized I think he is. Could he be a blend?

His wife could have been the hoarder and perhaps he overlooked it so she didn’t bother him with any of his “issues”.

It does seem that he is definitely organized when it comes to these murders, unless he is being framed from a known corrupt Suffolk county

 

[Ruminations]

Because if could be a motive or what made him start killing to begin with, along with other issues like narcissism or sociopathy.

Hmmm. I don't think he'd have any way of knowing what viruses they might sport. And I think the biggest HIV haters took that out on gay men, partly since it is much easier for men to give the virus to others of either gender than for women to give it to men.

(Not that it is very difficult for women to give it to men; wear your condoms, please!)

Not to say you're wrong. Maybe this theory isn't clicking with me because, if the allegations pan out, I think he just hates women and feels compelled and entitled to kill them.

MOO

 

[kittythehare]

I dug up a few papers on serial killers and their motivations, if anybody is interested?

https://thekeep.eiu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=4722&context=theses

https://scholars.wlu.ca/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3101&context=etd

https://jmvr.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/A-Rose-by-Any-Other-Name-Problems-in-Defining-and-Conceptualising-Serial-Murder-with-a-New-Proposed-Definition-Petherick-et-al..pdf

https://www.sagepub.com/sites/default/files/upm-binaries/94240_Chapter_7__Serial_Killers.pdf

'Although serial murder has been loosely described as. “motiveless,” there is indeed one motive—to satisfy an intense appetite for sadism, power, and control.'

 

[kittythehare]

Serial killing in schizophrenia

Serial criminality, although rare, has always aroused the interest of researchers in criminology, psychiatry, psychology, and sociology. We report the case of a patient, suffering from a chronic psychotic disorder, having committed several murders over ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

inspire the most appalling of successful “thrillers.” Reading the clinical stories of the murderers often reveals absurd, horrific, monstrous, and incomprehensible homicides. They are often out of proportion to the avowed causes, or even without apparent motive.

e of the most common classifications that are widely used by the Federal Bureau of Investigation is the one proposed in 1980 by Hazelwood and Douglas 1 and which differentiates between organized killers and disorganized. “The organized killer is an egocentric, amoral and manipulative individual who methodically commits his murderous crimes,” versus “the disorganized killer is a lonely individual, experiencing feelings of rejection, committing murderous acts out of opportunity.” Bénézech 2 presents a dichotomy of serial killers in relation to rational and psychopathological motivations. He differentiates schematically between the psychopathic murderer and the psychotic murderer, yet this taxonomy is only indicative of the fact that some criminals fall in between.

 

[Ruminations]

I dug up a few papers on serial killers and their motivations, if anybody is interested?

https://thekeep.eiu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=4722&context=theses

https://scholars.wlu.ca/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3101&context=etd

https://jmvr.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/A-Rose-by-Any-Other-Name-Problems-in-Defining-and-Conceptualising-Serial-Murder-with-a-New-Proposed-Definition-Petherick-et-al..pdf

https://www.sagepub.com/sites/default/files/upm-binaries/94240_Chapter_7__Serial_Killers.pdf

'Although serial murder has been loosely described as. “motiveless,” there is indeed one motive—to satisfy an intense appetite for sadism, power, and control.'

A lot of times I think it is over-posited that serial killers target sex workers because they are sex workers. I think someone here even wondered at their keyboard if Rex's mom turned to sex work. (Not to poke fun, and it could be correct but) it seems more likely that, if Rex's mom was a factor, she was part of his targeting females. And females in sex work are more vulnerable and available than females who are not.

MOO

 

[LadyL]

I think it was a legitimate question, and certainly not meant to gawk at the family, nor victim blame.

After seeing the original question, "Why would the adult children need an attorney?", it prompted me to do a bit of googling.

In most states, there is no parent-child priviledge if one is called to testify against the other.

Only a few states recognize some form of parent-child privilege -- Connecticut, Idaho, Massachusetts, Minnesota (by statute) and New York (by judicial ruling).

So, it is possible and now makes sense that this would likely be one of many reasons why the adult children have retained an attorney. JMO.


Exerpt BBM from:

https://practice.findlaw.com/practice-guide/is-there-a-parent-child-evidentiary-privilege-.html

this never even occurred to me
how sad for them
cause they don't have enough to deal with

 

[Ruminations]

this never even occurred to me
how sad for them
cause they don't have enough to deal with

Right. The most likely, most healthy, intentions for the family members would be to survive emotionally, AND help LE catch the killer(s) in any way possible, AND promote the most just legal outcome for your accused family member who is still under the presumption of innocence. An attorney could help someone achieve that balance.

They have so much heaped on them, and it probably all was served at once. I can't imagine.

MOO

Edited to add: talk about a complicated divorce!

 

[Scotch]

And females in sex work are more vulnerable and available than females who are not.

Agreed. Add to that the stigma society and law enforcement tend to place on SWs and it creates the perfect storm. Women who are afraid to go to the police or ask for help, women who are willing to place themselves in vulnerable situations because they need to make money, a large pool of willing participants, and the right one happens to closely, or perfectly fit the profile the SK is looking for. The Internet has sadly made it extremely easy for the SK in exchange for a minimum of effort in targeting the right one.

 

[Warwick7]

The only thing I'd caution is a lot of the reporting on Shannan's last morning seen a live comes from Pak's account. Since Kolker was ahead of a lot of sleuths and depositions, he gives Pak's statements more credibility than warranted.

It's an excellent book, and humanizes victims well.

MOO

This is worth repeating.

"the reporting on Shannan's last morning seen a live comes from Pak's account."

 

[imstilla.grandma]

His wife could have been the hoarder and perhaps he overlooked it so she didn’t bother him with any of his “issues”.

It does seem that he is definitely organized when it comes to these murders, unless he is being framed from a known corrupt Suffolk county

Could the lifelong lifestyle hoarding habits of his spouse be a source of disagreements between them? Were his specific work areas organized and clutter free? Were these areas the only control he had in his household? Did he devise and outsource a way to gain back control? Total control of these women.

 

[Jurisprudence]

They don't. MOO
I am 1/2 way through his deposition and each time I compare the 911 call to what I am reading, I shake my head.

I haven't finished it yet either but from what I have read through so far, I agree.

jmo