Gilgo Beach LISK Serial Killer, Rex Heuermann, charged with 4 murders, July 2023 #10

[Forest_Wood]

It still doesn’t make sense to me that in order for it to be 1st degree, it has to be within a certain time frame as the others? Obviously IANAL, but I thought the difference between 1st degree and 2nd degree was whether or not it was premeditated? Someone explain please.

I had thought the same. I've never heard of it having to be within two years of other murders to be considered 1st degree.

 

[Luna20]

If the neighbors don't have stories then their security systems surely do. We are talking a high class family with high accessibility to education, healthcare, and clearly income. Paying to keep quiet with your family would be the last option IMO esp considering the children. I mean that would be QUITE the family secret to be hushed by monetary funds but I have been wrong before...

But I agree with you, even the largest basement with the best soundproof quality would still raise concerns with neighbors/family members with coming and going. I mean I know a basement isn't always the hangout destination but to have at least four identified victims without a peep to family living IN THE SAME HOME makes my mind wander. Did they ever mention HM's pets if they had any? Hard to see a dog or puppy not barking upon entrance into the home with new visitors.

“A high class family with high accessibility……”

Can you please elaborate on this?

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

Have you considered how much Rex Heuermann has assisted the prosecution against himself? A man considered "smart" because he used a different burner phone for each victim, did not "burn" or destroy the devices, but instead kept them at home and in his office.

The bail application said there were hundreds of electronic devices in home and office that the task force is still going through.

The purpose of a "burner" phone is that it's used then destroyed when another "burner" is purchased. Over the long years how simple it would have been for RH to drop a phone off a curb, step a heavy heel into it, then leave the pieces to be washed away in the drains of the city.

I am personally going to guess other victims will be discovered from the study of these devices. Perhaps already have been.

This man searched how phone records were being used in solving crimes, then kept his old phones and probably the paperwork that went with them!

Then, there are the thousands upon thousands of dollars RH spent on storage units to maintain mounds of records of credit cards, expenditures, family life. None of this information would still be available from the companies. He's certainly not required by law to keep records from 2007. A reasonable person would have burned and shredded or never kept in the first place any of the paperwork LE needs to prove their case. Not only has RH kept them, he's paid good money to keep them safe.

Why? He knew better.

Do you think he may have kept the burners as a trophy of some sort?

 

[DeDee]

As much as I'm relieved by the arrest of this mad serial killer, it is heartbreaking all the same. Rex proves to us that evil has no bounds. Evil does not sleep. The online searches he made are so gross. It's hard to comprehend anyone interested in such horrible things. What is it in his background that made him into the kind of person we see today?

When is his first trial? Who thinks he'll change his plea in order to avoid details his heinous crimes being revealed to the whole wide world?

 

[acutename]

As much as I'm relieved the arrest of this mad serial killer, it is heartbreaking all the same. Rex proves to us that evil has no bounds. Evil does not sleep. The online searches he made are so gross. It's hard to comprehend anyone interested in such horrible things. What is it in his background that made him into the kind of person we see today?

When is his first trial? Who thinks he'll change his plea in order to avoid details his heinous crimes being revealed to the whole wide world?

no psych credentials here but I think he has some kind of fractured personality that lets some part of him deny what he did- remember he had his daughter working with him at his firm; he might even have been "nice" to his wife and the son. Some of his co-workers thought he was a nice guy. Also think that it is interesting that he seems, so far, to have committed murders when the family was away- as if their presence controlled him.... and then when they were away, the demons came out. Not sure that he can admit to himself who he is, IMO.

 

[CuriousCricket]

I had thought the same. I've never heard of it having to be within two years of other murders to be considered 1st degree.

Perhaps there is a special rule in serial murders? MBB was the first of the Gilgo Four. She was restrained with belts, not tape and she was wrapped in plastic, not shoved into a burlap camo bag. Because she wasn't completely enclosed, weather and elements washed and destroyed more evidence than with those tucked neatly into bags. Perhaps they can't prove HOW she died? It has taken longer to get enough evidence to charge RH. Since the three murders had to be carried out within two years to qualify, it appears to me that its a special serial killing ruling . . . which BTW may pertain only to New York state.

 

[Betty P]

There was a google search made looking for TS escorts. My understanding is TS means Transsexual.

Take that for what you will

He seems to have been involved in everything.

 

[Betty P]

no psych credentials here but I think he has some kind of fractured personality that lets some part of him deny what he did- remember he had his daughter working with him at his firm; he might even have been "nice" to his wife and the son. Some of his co-workers thought he was a nice guy. Also think that it is interesting that he seems, so far, to have committed murders when the family was away- as if their presence controlled him.... and then when they were away, the demons came out. Not sure that he can admit to himself who he is, IMO.

JMO, a lot of serial killers have great ability to compartmentalize their activities, sports, clubs, relationships, etc. Rex H. had many years to practice.

That said, witnesses have testified that his wife was aware of some of his activities. There's a witness who has signed an affidavit and will testify in court that Rex and his wife were both "swingers", members of a club in Manhattan, not far from Rex's office. There's nothing wrong with that, of course, but taken with all of Rex's other activities at the time, he was engaged in a lot of activities.

Witness Claims Rex Heuermann and Wife Hosted Swingers Party

Attorney John Ray says a witness claims to have been at Rex Heuermann's house with Karen Vergata, whose body was found on Gilgo Beach.

www.courttv.com

New witnesses come forward in case against Rex Heuermann serial killer case

More witnesses came forward in the case against accused Long Island serial killer Rex Heuermann.

www.fox5ny.com

 

[Betty P]

what about her murder arrives to 2nd degree murder..? he was on the phone with her the day before she went missing. she was murdered just like the others, she was dead in the same spot off the road as all the others..give me a break!
I want more investigation of Ellerup. I don't like that her hair is involved in the disposal materials on these bodies. That it is on the tape is very suspect to me.
mOO

Second degree murder in New York statutes is defined as causing the death of another person with intent.

Apparently, first degree murder in NY state only applies if someone causes the intentional death of a police officer, EMS worker, if the death was caused during commission of a robbery, kidnapping or criminal sexual act.

I suppose the prosecutor explained why he didn't think he could prove the murder took place during a criminal sexual act. JMO, he could. Just because she was a sex worker doesn't mean it wasn't first degree murder. IANAL

"(vii) the victim was killed while the defendant was in the course of
committing or attempting to commit and in furtherance of robbery,
burglary in the first degree or second degree, kidnapping in the first
degree, arson in the first degree or second degree, rape in the first
degree, criminal sexual act in the first degree, sexual abuse in the
first degree, aggravated sexual abuse in the first degree or escape in
the first degree, or in the course of and furtherance of immediate
flight after committing or attempting to commit any such crime or in the
course of and furtherance of immediate flight after attempting to commit
the crime of murder in the second degree; provided however, the victim
is not a participant in one of the aforementioned crimes..."

NYS Open Legislation | NYSenate.gov

www.nysenate.gov

BBM

ETA: The prosecutor is using this particular clause (below) for his reason to not charge 1st degree murder, but, JMO, that clause doesn't apply, nor does it really make sense. JMO, based only on the history of this investigation, the above seems more likely a reason.

"(xi) the defendant intentionally caused the death of two or more
additional persons within the state in separate criminal transactions
within a period of twenty-four months when committed in a similar
fashion or pursuant to a common scheme or plan; or..."

 

[Betty P]

I have not seen this posted yet - apologies if its a duplicate - good news that Gloria is involved for the victims IMO

Gloria Aldred was there and gave a press conference right after Tierney with some of the victims relatives :

I assume Gloria Allred is involved for some of the victims family. Some of them have been represented by attorney John Ray. JMO, if not for John Ray, the Task Force never would have been created, nor the murders fully investigated.

 

[NyxNY]

Do you think he may have kept the burners as a trophy of some sort?

First thought that came to mind. For this reason, I hope the task team is investigating the whereabouts of the two SWs that were contacted from the two burner phones found on his person and in his office when he was arrested.

 

[waldojabba]

I assume Gloria Allred is involved for some of the victims family. Some of them have been represented by attorney John Ray. JMO, if not for John Ray, the Task Force never would have been created, nor the murders fully investigated.

My post indicated that I thought it was good news Gloria was involved with the victims.
Gloria is a very high profile attorney nationally known for cases involving women’s rights
She is well connected and I believe can open doors for the victim's families that they may not yet have walked through

There is much animosity on this site from some towards Asa for earning money for the Peacock special.
It may be that Gloria can hook the victims up with the proper people to also pursue opportunities like the one Asa got at Peacock If they choose to be involved in that type of thing and earn money.
Gloria certainly knows the media for sure – she has been around for a long time with national high profile exposure
IMO Her fresh eyes and female perspective as well as her personal experience of being a rape victim( she knows mistreatment firsthand by men as well as attitudes of others toward victims) put her in a unique position with the victims families

The fact that Gloria is involved now repping some of the victims’ families IMO in no way diminishes any past or current efforts of JR. I am sure it will become clear who they each individually rep as things progress. Perhaps they will work together as they each have very different skill sets. We will watch as it unfolds.

Here is her quick wiki blurb for those not familiar : Gloria Allred - Wikipedia

ALL JMO

 

[Betty P]

My post indicated that I thought it was good news Gloria was involved with the victims.
Gloria is a very high profile attorney nationally known for cases involving women’s rights
She is well connected and I believe can open doors for the victim's families that they may not yet have walked through

There is much animosity on this site from some towards Asa for earning money for the Peacock special.
It may be that Gloria can hook the victims up with the proper people to also pursue opportunities like the one Asa got at Peacock If they choose to be involved in that type of thing and earn money.
Gloria certainly knows the media for sure – she has been around for a long time with national high profile exposure
IMO Her fresh eyes and female perspective as well as her personal experience of being a rape victim( she knows mistreatment firsthand by men as well as attitudes of others toward victims) put her in a unique position with the victims families

The fact that Gloria is involved now repping some of the victims’ families IMO in no way diminishes any past or current efforts of JR. I am sure it will become clear who they each individually rep as things progress. Perhaps they will work together as they each have very different skill sets. We will watch as it unfolds.

Here is her quick wiki blurb for those not familiar : Gloria Allred - Wikipedia

ALL JMO

I'm familiar with Gloria Allred, even met her once. I agree, she's a great advocate and is probably going to help Maureen Brainard Barnes' surviving family members to pursue opportunities with media companies wishing to make movies or documentaries about these horrible murders. Those survivors deserve support, its long overdue. Their lives have been forever changed as a result of the loss of their mother and the years agonizing over where she was and who killed her.

Gilgo Beach Victim's Family Speaks: 'Evil Exists In This World'

"I remember she read to me every night, and now I can no longer remember the sound of her voice." Gilgo Beach victim's daughter shares pain.

patch.com

There have been some excellent shows produced about the LISK and the many victims (some as yet unidentified). It's great if more good shows and movies are produced to shed light on these horrible crimes, helping improve public advocacy to prevent such crimes while supporting the victims. JMO, the surviving family members of the victims deserve first priority in receiving compensation.

The investigation(s) are ongoing. There are some victims yet to be identified, including a toddler found buried with it's mother just a short distance down the road from the Gilgo 4 and, of course, Shannan Gilbert's mysterious death/murder.

 

[CuriousCricket]

Second degree murder in New York statutes is defined as causing the death of another person with intent.

Apparently, first degree murder in NY state only applies if someone causes the intentional death of a police officer, EMS worker, if the death was caused during commission of a robbery, kidnapping or criminal sexual act.

I suppose the prosecutor explained why he didn't think he could prove the murder took place during a criminal sexual act. JMO, he could. Just because she was a sex worker doesn't mean it wasn't first degree murder. IANAL

"(vii) the victim was killed while the defendant was in the course of
committing or attempting to commit and in furtherance of robbery,
burglary in the first degree or second degree, kidnapping in the first
degree, arson in the first degree or second degree, rape in the first
degree, criminal sexual act in the first degree, sexual abuse in the
first degree, aggravated sexual abuse in the first degree or escape in
the first degree, or in the course of and furtherance of immediate
flight after committing or attempting to commit any such crime or in the
course of and furtherance of immediate flight after attempting to commit
the crime of murder in the second degree; provided however, the victim
is not a participant in one of the aforementioned crimes..."

NYS Open Legislation | NYSenate.gov

www.nysenate.gov

BBM

ETA: The prosecutor is using this particular clause (below) for his reason to not charge 1st degree murder, but, JMO, that clause doesn't apply, nor does it really make sense. JMO, based only on the history of this investigation, the above seems more likely a reason.

"(xi) the defendant intentionally caused the death of two or more
additional persons within the state in separate criminal transactions
within a period of twenty-four months when committed in a similar
fashion or pursuant to a common scheme or plan; or..."

Wonder if it might be a "courtroom gamemanship" strategy? If such a thing exists (and I bet it does with the size of egos that might appear in a courtroom). They feel they absolutely have him. However, they don't wish to allow him even a tiny victory in the courtroom. Beating even one count might allow for a feeling of "a win".+

 

[Forest_Wood]

My post indicated that I thought it was good news Gloria was involved with the victims.
Gloria is a very high profile attorney nationally known for cases involving women’s rights
She is well connected and I believe can open doors for the victim's families that they may not yet have walked through

There is much animosity on this site from some towards Asa for earning money for the Peacock special.
It may be that Gloria can hook the victims up with the proper people to also pursue opportunities like the one Asa got at Peacock If they choose to be involved in that type of thing and earn money.
Gloria certainly knows the media for sure – she has been around for a long time with national high profile exposure
IMO Her fresh eyes and female perspective as well as her personal experience of being a rape victim( she knows mistreatment firsthand by men as well as attitudes of others toward victims) put her in a unique position with the victims families

The fact that Gloria is involved now repping some of the victims’ families IMO in no way diminishes any past or current efforts of JR. I am sure it will become clear who they each individually rep as things progress. Perhaps they will work together as they each have very different skill sets. We will watch as it unfolds.

Here is her quick wiki blurb for those not familiar : Gloria Allred - Wikipedia

ALL JMO

I didn't realize the history of Gloria Allred having been raped. This explains her passion for helping sexual assault survivors and their family members. I liked seeing how she provided a media event which humanized the daughter and sister of Maureen. It was very touching. Maureen's daughter is now close to the age of RH's daughter.n I agree with everything you posted above. Thank you.

 

[iamshadow21]

I'm familiar with Gloria Allred, even met her once. I agree, she's a great advocate and is probably going to help Maureen Brainard Barnes' surviving family members to pursue opportunities with media companies wishing to make movies or documentaries about these horrible murders. Those survivors deserve support, its long overdue. Their lives have been forever changed as a result of the loss of their mother and the years agonizing over where she was and who killed her.

Gilgo Beach Victim's Family Speaks: 'Evil Exists In This World'

"I remember she read to me every night, and now I can no longer remember the sound of her voice." Gilgo Beach victim's daughter shares pain.

patch.com

There have been some excellent shows produced about the LISK and the many victims (some as yet unidentified). It's great if more good shows and movies are produced to shed light on these horrible crimes, helping improve public advocacy to prevent such crimes while supporting the victims. JMO, the surviving family members of the victims deserve first priority in receiving compensation.

The investigation(s) are ongoing. There are some victims yet to be identified, including a toddler found buried with it's mother just a short distance down the road from the Gilgo 4 and, of course, Shannan Gilbert's mysterious death/murder.

Just to clarify, Toddler Doe wasn't buried with her mother, Peaches. Toddler Doe was wrapped in a blanket and deposited in brambles, probably not buried at all. Peaches was dismembered and scattered across a minimum of three locations. None of them were with her baby girl. Toddler Doe was, however, found close to some of the dismembered remains of Valerie Mack.

Murder of Tanya Jackson - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Gilgo Beach serial killings - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

MOO

 

[snarast]

JMO, a lot of serial killers have great ability to compartmentalize their activities, sports, clubs, relationships, etc. Rex H. had many years to practice.

That said, witnesses have testified that his wife was aware of some of his activities. There's a witness who has signed an affidavit and will testify in court that Rex and his wife were both "swingers", members of a club in Manhattan, not far from Rex's office. There's nothing wrong with that, of course, but taken with all of Rex's other activities at the time, he was engaged in a lot of activities.

Witness Claims Rex Heuermann and Wife Hosted Swingers Party

Attorney John Ray says a witness claims to have been at Rex Heuermann's house with Karen Vergata, whose body was found on Gilgo Beach.

www.courttv.com

New witnesses come forward in case against Rex Heuermann serial killer case

More witnesses came forward in the case against accused Long Island serial killer Rex Heuermann.

www.fox5ny.com

Denial ain't just a river in Egypt. I mean, the people who are exposed to the presence of pure evil will often sense it and in turn compartmentalize to the degree that even very perceptive, intelligent people will be completely immune to the evidence piling up all around them.

 

[Betty P]

Some of his searches with his various email accounts in this latest bail application are just horrible.

SUPERCEDING BAIL DOCUMENT.pdf

drive.google.com

 

[iamshadow21]

Some of his searches with his various email accounts in this latest bail application are just horrible.

SUPERCEDING BAIL DOCUMENT.pdf

drive.google.com

Did you see the ones from the paperwork last year? Different, but equally awful. Worse, because those contained references to primary school age kids, if I recall correctly.

MOO

 

[Betty P]

Did you see the ones from the paperwork last year? Different, but equally awful. Worse, because those contained references to primary school age kids, if I recall correctly.

MOO

Yes, those were a nightmare. These are almost as bad. It's like looking inside the mind of a sadistic serial killer. He actually becomes sexually stimulated from hearing women cry. There's much worse stuff, but the part about having a sexual reaction to people's misery is evil, demented.