IL - Man in tactical vest taking photos of school shot dead by LE

[K_Z]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/subur...e-shooting-update-st-0108-20160107-story.html

Man killed by Zion cops was 'likable guy,' had history of mental illness

The 38-year-old man killed in Wednesday's police-involved shooting in Zion was a likable and polite guy who suffered from mental illness, his father said Thursday.

"They have treatment programs and medications and for the most part it works, but sometimes people like my boy don't always use good judgment. And yesterday morning, from what I've been told, is one of those times he didn't use good judgment," Carl Hollstein, 84, of Frankfort, said of his son.

Charles Hollstein, who went by Charlie, was "a likable guy" who struck people as very polite, Carl Hollstein said. The father said he tried to give his son good advice, but he didn't always listen.

"It probably would have been better if he'd been living at a nursing home, but who thinks something like this will happen?" he said. "You can't read a person's mind."

Charles Hollstein lived at a nursing home that offered treatment when he moved to Lake County around 2007. For the past few years, he'd been living in an apartment through a Lake County program, Carl Hollstein said.

According to court records, Hollstein pleaded guilty in March 1999 to attempting to solicit drugs in Cook County and was fined $200.

In Will County in 2004, he was found not guilty by reason of insanity on charges of domestic battery and possession of marijuana, according to court records. He was sent to the Department of Mental Health for evaluation and placement.

He also was fined in 2004 after receiving municipal citations for retail theft in Frankfort, court records show.

 

[katydid23]

Zion man shot by cops was schizophrenic, dad says

http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20160107/news/160109328/

The Zion man who was shot to death by police Wednesday suffered from schizophrenia and had a history of violence, his father said Thursday.

"There had been voices I'd never hear," Carl Hollstein said of his son, Charles J. Hollstein, 38.

 

[Minette]

So sad. However, even though a person who suffers from mental illness is not necessarily a threat to anyone other than him- or herself, sometimes they are. And in this case, the erratic behavior, attempt to avoid arrest, and potential gun led to a predictable result. It IS sad, but LE are not mental health professionals, and since the '60s we've decided that it is unjust and unfair to hospitalize the mentally ill against their will (until they actually try to harm themselves or others) so this is the situation we have. Maybe he was too profoundly mentally ill to understand that wearing apparent tactical gear and carrying even a pretend weapon and acting in a suspicious manner outside a school is a very bad idea in a post Sandy Hook era. Or maybe he was planning to storm the school with his 'weapon.' Or maybe he wanted the police to shoot him. The question is, how are LE to KNOW he isn't another Adam Lanza unless they apprehend him? And do you really want to give the mentally ill guy outside the school waving a 'weapon' the benefit of the doubt over the safety of the children inside? I don't, even though that means I have to live with this type of shooting--of a person who may or may not have had violent intentions--on my conscience. Others may make different choices.

 

[Tawny]

The point is that another person who committed no crime has been executed by the police. If they hadn’t killed him they would have had to let him go.

I assume it would fall under felony menacing, but I may be mistaken.

It's tragic that he was suffering from schizophrenia, and I wish this had played out differently, unfortunately he was actively posing a perceived threat to everyone around him. Ugh. I wish people could get real help when they need it. Sad day.

 

[bluesneakers]

RSBM
Appearing to be armed and then getting into an altercation with LE while they're trying to disarm him is a crime. There's no way they would of let him go. I don't know what went on but I can't blame LE for doing their job. Now if some other info comes out I might change my mind if appropriate force was used, but he committed a crime.

I might change my mind too. I think part of it is I see it differently if the officers were afraid for the children's lives, and of course the other details surrounding the shooting - did he drop the weapon, did he run, was there a struggle, etc. But if they walked up and thought he was a wannabe Lanza I can understand they would do whatever they could to stop him. I can't say if that's right or wrong.

Another thing I'm curious about - did he have the gun in one hand and the camera in the other, or did he pull the weapon out when the police arrived?

 

[bluesneakers]

https://www.nami.org/Find-Support/Family-Members-and-Caregivers/Calling-911-and-Talking-with-Police

If you are worried about a police officer overreacting, the best way to ensure a safe outcome is to stay calm. When an officer arrives at your home, say "this is a mental health crisis."

Another possibility, because sometimes people are unable to express even this much, is to write it down on a piece of paper, like "I have schizophrenia and am in crisis" and hand it to the officer. This is especially helpful when someone is wandering around or freaking out somewhere other than home.

JMO

 

[KaaBoom]

Zion man shot by cops was schizophrenic, dad says

http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20160107/news/160109328/

The Zion man who was shot to death by police Wednesday suffered from schizophrenia and had a history of violence, his father said Thursday.

"There had been voices I'd never hear," Carl Hollstein said of his son, Charles J. Hollstein, 38.

The American mental health system fails again.

 

[katydid23]

The American mental health system fails again.

I am not sure we can blame it on the mental health system this time. He had been in treatment for years and had been fine for quite awhile, until this sudden crisis, apparently.



"According to Will County court records, Charles Hollstein was found not guilty by reason of insanity on charges of aggravated battery to a peace officer in 2003. He was ordered to have a psychological evaluation.

Hollstein was charged with domestic battery and possession of marijuana in 2004. After that arrest, he was sent to the Elgin Mental Health Center, where he remained until a 2007 release.


Frankfort Deputy Police Chief Kevin Keegan remembered dealing with Hollstein years ago.

"Even though we arrested him, he was always a decent guy," Keegan said. "He was always decent to us."

At the time of his death, Hollstein was living in an apartment, police said. He had lived in Zion two or three years and was unemployed, his father said.

"We haven't had any trouble with him for some long time," Carl Hollstein said.

 

[bluesneakers]

Coroner: Man killed by Zion police was shot three times in back

An autopsy Thursday found Hollstein died of three gunshot wounds to the left upper back, shots which struck his ribs, thoracic spine and upper lobes of both lungs, according to the Lake County coroner’s office.

Zion Man Identified as Suspect in Fatal Police Shooting

Coroner Thomas A. Rudd says an autopsy determined Hollstein died of three gunshot wounds to the left, upper back

That's a familiar name.

 

[Willow Knight]

I keep reading what is NOT the job of the police, and what they should NOT be expected to do.

Please, can you tell me, then, what IS their job? Obvious it is not to serve or protect.

Sure. In my opinion, it is the job of the police to chase a man, struggle, and shoot a man wearing a tactical-style vest with homemade metal plates inside and carrying an airsoft gun, which they had initially thought was a real gun, and taking pictures outside a school.

These officers willingly put themselves in harms way protecting the public, and in this case our school children.

 

[bluesneakers]

Nerheim: Fatal police-involved shooting in Zion justified

According to the report, police then saw that Hollstein had a semi-automatic handgun in a holster in the center of his lower back, which turned out to be an Airsoft 4.5 mm pistol painted gold and black to conceal a red tip on the barrel. Police removed a knife from Hollstein's pocket, the report said, and they cut off his hoodie to try and resuscitate him, and that's when they found he had a "plate carrier vest" that had folding Coleman trench shovels in the front and another in the back.

Also in Hollstein's possession, the report stated, were two compressed canisters, magazines loaded with pellets, a Marine Corps folding knife with belt clip, a tactical vest, six plastic zip ties made into handcuffs, a metal smoking pipe and lighter, two cellphones and an earbud headphone with attached wire.

A search of his apartment reportedly turned up homemade tactical vests, tactical footwear, homemade police uniforms, weapon magazines, pepper spray canisters, handcuffs, throwing stars, homemade police gear bags and another air gun.

...

Charles Hollstein's father said he understands how the shooting happened.

"With all the violence that's been going on in this country, places like Sandy Hook and other schools, police are on edge, communities are on edge, people are on edge, and when everyone's on edge, it's not too good," he said. "The public is the loser. He was, and I am."