ISRAEL KEYES: Profile and Background

[bessie]

What do we know about Israel Keyes?

The Cold-Blooded Crimes of Serial Murderer Israel Keyes

April 10, 2013 4:21 PM By Denise Noe

Israel Keyes (he was apparently not given a middle name) was born on January 7, 1978, in Richmond, Utah. The first child of a married couple, he would eventually have nine siblings. His parents were members of the Mormon Church during his early years and Israel was home-schooled.
He was still a child when the Keyes family moved to a rural area north of Colville, Washington. The move coincided with the family’s departure from the Mormon church. In Washington, they occasionally attended a church of Christian Identity, a tiny denomination preaching white separatist and anti-Semitic doctrines.

Keyes joined the United States Army in 1998. He served at Fort Lewis and Fort Hood and in Egypt. While at Fort Lewis in 2001 he pleaded guilty to DUI. He received an “Army Achievement Medal” but was never in combat. He was honorably discharged in 2001.

Lanky and athletic, Keyes ran a marathon in Olympia, Washington in 2007. He performed carpentry work for an American Indian tribe in Washington before relocating to Anchorage in late 2007. He also founded Keyes Construction, a contracting firm of which he was apparently both boss and sole employee.

Serial Killer Israel Keyes Got 'High' from Killing, FBI Agent Says

Dec. 6, 2012
By ALYSSA NEWCOMB and CHRISTINA NG

"He liked what he was doing," FBI Special Agent Jolene Goeden told "Good Morning America" today. "He talked about the rush he got out of it, the adrenaline and kind of the high from it."

"There is no one who knows me or who has ever known me that knows anything about me, really," he told FBI investigators in an audio recording released to the media.

Others, he said, "will tell you something that doesn't line up with anything I tell you, because I'm two different people basically. The only person who knows about what I'm telling you, the kind of things I'm telling you, is me," he said.

Keyes said he had felt this duality for "14 years."

An inside look into the funeral of serial killer Israel Keyes

Posted: Dec 12, 2012 5:29 PM CDT Updated: Dec 12, 2012 5:29 PM CDT
By Leigha Hughes At one point in the sermon Gardner says Keyes visited his family before he killed the Currier family in Vermont. Gardner said "if you look at these timelines online chronologically, looking upon his murders and looking upon the different crimes of this man, you'll see that he had flown to Chicago with a pistol and with a silencer, the weapon of choice for the murder of the Currier family. He didn't have the Courier family in mind at the time but he had the murder in his mind. He had the exact plot in his mind. What he wanted to do, it was all there. It was all in his heart."

Israel Keyes told investigator he let his first victim go

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2012/12/05/176418/israel-keyes-told-investigator.html#.UiQnsz90nAkHe was a methodical, cold killer who described himself as two different people to investigators. He didn't view his victims as human beings, investigators said. He read up on other serial killers and said he could relate to Ted Bundy, said Jeff Bell, an Anchorage police officer who repeatedly interviewed Keyes along with Goeden and others. Keyes also robbed banks and burglarized and burned down a home in Texas, he told investigators.

​

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Keyes"]Israel Keyes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

 

[Knox]

I grew up not far from John Wayne Gacy's home. I became fascinated by serial killers at a young age, went into college studying Psychology with hopes of doing something with criminals but then went elsewhere with my life. I have always been so fascinated by SKs, but I don't tell people because really, it IS kind of strange and morbid but I know you all get what I mean.

That being said -

What we know about Israel goes against what I personally know about SKs (my official studies ended around 2003 and lots happens in 10 years). To me, SKs usually have similar types of victims or stay within a defined area. There is always a "method to the madness".

Not only did Israel not stick with similar types of victims - age ranges all over the map, both genders AND couples and non-couples - but he traveled all over the place, possibly into other countries. AND he planned years ahead, planting his weapons!

Have we EVER heard of anything like this before?

In terms of criminal psychology this is SO fascinating. I mean this purely from a factual and informative POV and I don't mean to undermine the horror the victims went through.

This is really big.

This article should interest you Claudette. A few things we had not heard before:

• Keyes got a high from killing and shivered with adrenaline when he recounted his murders, presenting a stark break from his usual calmness during interviews

• Keyes was reluctant to provide details of his killings because he worried about how his family would view him, especially his daughter, who is 10 or 11 years old. "He was very conscious of his daughter Googling him years from now and having to deal with the fallout from this

• Russo said he believes Keyes killed as many as 11 or 12 people. The FBI and Anchorage Police Department investigators also upped the number on Friday, saying Keyes may have had 11 victims. They'd previously said at least eight. FBI agent Darren Jones said the FBI always thought there might be more than eight. Additional information makes them confident there's more. But no one may ever know the real number (inserting my thought here, bloody sheets of paper found in his cell, have revealed more information to investigators)

• At some point he realized he was different. He always thought other people were pretending to be nice to other people and then he realized at some point only he was pretending. He described an incident when he was younger -- how he tortured a cat in front of his friends and everybody got sick and ran away from him. He realized he should shut up about this stuff because he was different.

• Before killing the Curriers and Koenig, Keyes’ killings didn't attract much attention. He noted that missing men, in particular, didn't get attention. People just assume they've left home. "He goes, 'Oddly the bank robbery I did in New York got more publicity than the person I took and killed,’ " Russo said.

• Keyes also told investigators that because of his daughter, children were off limits. That's one reason he chose to kill the Curriers in Vermont -- they had no children.

http://www.alaskadispatch.com/article/investigators-keyes-killing-spree-may-have-claimed-11-victims

 

[Lucky 1]

Wonder if IK saw/heard of this, and if it influenced his habits at all.

http://www.stevenjthompson.com/varioustopics/lakecrescentmystery/index.htm

A lake's secrets may solve 72-year-old mystery
Thursday, December 20, 2001

By KRISTIN DIZON
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER REPORTER

LAKE CRESCENT -- Russell and Blanch Warren were young and handsome. They were hard-working, ordinary people, and the day they vanished 72 years ago was an ordinary day, a sunny Wednesday. They left behind two sons who always wondered how and why they'd disappeared.

Did their car careen off the dirt and gravel road into the depths of azure Lake Crescent, a cold, clear grave entombing them? Was it a simple accident on a curve taken too fast, or a drowsy driver at the helm, as most thought?
Or had something more sinister happened -- a spat between spouses grappling over the steering wheel? A murder? A deliberate disappearance?

Could bodies survive?

Lake Crescent is a voracious tomb. She does not give up her dead easily. There's a spot on the southwestern shore that locals call Ambulance Point, where an ambulance plowed into the lake from an icy road in the '60s. The attendants made it out, but the injured logger with a broken leg was strapped to a gurney and died there. In the '80s, a woman driving with her two children got out safely when their car slipped off the icy road into the lake, but her children later died at a hospital. No one knows how many lives have ended there, how many bodies are suspended in that crystal liquid.

http://john-rawlings.newsvine.com/_news/2008/07/27/1699750-diving-into-a-72-year-old-mystery-an-alpine-lake-finally-gives-up-its-secrets

http://john-rawlings.newsvine.com/_news/2008/11/09/2091424-return-to-the-mystery-the-warren-case-and-lake-crescent-part-2

Essentially, it took 73 years to find this couple that went into the lake on their way back from town. Several dive teams, write up's in the paper, etc. Makes me wonder if it affected his choice of putting some of his victims in this lake.

 

[Lucky 1]

Foxfire posted this originally. After reviewing some of the earlier audio, I'm revisiting the topic....

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/ent...n-alaska-heats-up-with-the-frozen-ground.html

On Location: 'The Frozen Ground' heats up filming in Alaska
October 20, 2011

“The Frozen Ground,” based on the real-life 1980s Alaskan hunt for serial killer Robert Hansen, became the most recent Hollywood feature to shoot in Alaska when cameras started rolling in Anchorage this week.

This article also mentions tax rebates for filming there and hiring locals. Another hot button for IK.....

So, he abducts and murders the Curriers in June 2011, his first admitted killing that generated any real media attention and finds he likes that, likes following the news articles and commenting on them (4/17/12 audio). He then spends 10 days in the "Western US" in September, then in October they begin filming this in his home town and suddenly he decides to abduct someone practically right next to his house???

He abducts Samantha from a location less than 6 miles from his home and puts her in the shed at his house (!) when his entire MO all along was a complete 180 degrees from that? He didn't keep things that could tie him to any murder, they were buried in caches, but when he burns the house in Aledo in 2/12 he takes jewelry and takes it home to Anchorage and keeps it in a black fannypack (4/17/12 audio)!!! And then he proceeds to draw another straight line to himself with the ATM card after he gets back from the cruise by making a withdrawal in Anchorage before he left, then several on the way to his destination and allowing his vehicle to be seen in the ATM cameras. :notgood:

March 1, 2012: Used Koenig's debit card to make ATM withdrawal - Anchorage, Alaska.

March 6, 2012: Alaska Airlines flight (Anchorage to Las Vegas).

March 7, 2012: Used Koenig's debit card to make ATM withdrawal - Wilcox, Arizona.

March 8, 2012: Used Koenig's debit card to make ATM withdrawal - Shepard, Texas.

March 8, 2012: Used Koenig's debit card to make ATM withdrawal - Lordsburg, New Mexico.

March 10, 2012: Used Koenig's debit card to make ATM withdrawal - Humble, Texas.

[no date given but we know it was March 13, 2012]: Keyes Arrested

There is more to this than meets the eye. IMVHO.

http://www.alaskadispatch.com/artic...l-serial-killer-israel-keyes-wish-be-executed

http://www.fbi.gov/anchorage/press-...he-publics-assistance-concerning-israel-keyes

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9801059&postcount=1"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Timelines *NO DISCUSSION*[/ame]

 

[Lucky 1]

From another of Foxfire's links:
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/criminal_mind/psychology/hollow/5.html

Hollow Men: Why Serial Murderers Must Kill To Feel
BY Stephen G. Michaud

As Bundy explicitly expressed it to me, the thrill in sexual homicide comes with "possessing" victims "physically as one would possess a potted plant, a painting or a Porsche. Owning, as it were, this individual."

Studying Glatman (who was executed in 1959), Hazelwood puzzled over his habit of first incapacitating his victims in their apartments, then binding them and transporting them out into the desert, where Glatman finally killed them. "He could have raped and killed these women in their apartments," says Hazelwood. "But Glatman kept them alive at increased risk to himself. I realized that the enjoyment he took made the risk worth it to him. I later understood that enjoyment, that sense of possession, is power to the ritualistic offender, and total possession is absolute power."

Bundy explained to the agent that "murder isn't just a crime of lust or violence. It becomes possession. They are part of you ... You feel the last bit of breath leaving their bodies ... You're looking into their eyes ... A person in that situation is God!"

"There is no greater power over another person than that of inflicting pain on her," DeBardeleben wrote in his private journal. "To force her to undergo suffering without her being able to defend herself. The pleasure in the constant domination over another person is the very essence of the sadistic drive."

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9801089&postcount=2"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - The Suicide[/ame]

Now that I have you held tight I will tell you a story, speak soft in your ear so you know that it's true. You're my love at first sight and though you're scared to be near me, my words penetrate your thoughts now in an intimate prelude.

I looked in your eyes, they were so dark, warm and trusting, as though you had not a worry or care. The more guiless the game the better potential to fill up those pools with your fear.

Your face framed in dark curls like a portrait, the sun shone through highlights of red. What color I wonder, and how straight will it turn plastered back with the sweat of your blood.

Your wet lips were a promise of a secret unspoken, nervous laugh as it burst like a pulse of blood from your throat. There will be no more laughter here.

I feel your body tense up, my hand now on your shoulder, your eyes…Forget the lady called luck she does not abide near me for her powers don't extend to those who are dead.

[illegible lines]

My pretty captive butterfly colorful wings my hand smears…punishment and tears.

Violent metamorphosis, emerge my dark moth princess…come often and worship on the altar of your flesh…You shudder…and try to shrink far from me. I'll have you tied down and begging to become my [illegible] sweetie.

 

[Foxfire]

Why did Israel Keyes, break his rules of prey? IK, was a very disciplined predator for almost two decades. Imo,, IK planned to be apprehended for Samantha Koenig's abduction/murder.
From observation IK's Rules of prey:
* Always go dark & change modes of transportation a minimum of three times.
* Never abduct close to home base
* Always choose strangers
* Never leave witnesses alive
* Never have a motive.
* Never follow an obvious pattern.
* Never carry a firearm after use.
* Beware of leaving indictable residue; clues, forensics, bodies..
* Abort the mission that may have potentially undesirable or disastrous consequences.
* Never hunt twice in the same geographical area ot jurisdiction.
* Avoid security cameras and high traffic areas.
* Never carry your kill kit in your vehicle.
* Never share your secrets with others.
* Take advantage of jurisdictional linkage blindness when possible.
Imo, IK, was a collector/souvenirs, documented his evil deeds using pics & video, and would have likely hid them in the vicinity of his kill kits for revisiting..
IK, would not have gone to the grave without sharing the locations of his buried treasures; gold, silver, jewelry, etc..imo

 

[Snoopster]

Wonder if IK saw/heard of this, and if it influenced his habits at all.

http://www.stevenjthompson.com/varioustopics/lakecrescentmystery/index.htm

A lake's secrets may solve 72-year-old mystery
Thursday, December 20, 2001

By KRISTIN DIZON
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER REPORTER


http://john-rawlings.newsvine.com/_news/2008/07/27/1699750-diving-into-a-72-year-old-mystery-an-alpine-lake-finally-gives-up-its-secrets

http://john-rawlings.newsvine.com/_news/2008/11/09/2091424-return-to-the-mystery-the-warren-case-and-lake-crescent-part-2

Essentially, it took 73 years to find this couple that went into the lake on their way back from town. Several dive teams, write up's in the paper, etc. Makes me wonder if it affected his choice of putting some of his victims in this lake.

I absolutely believe that IK was fascinated by 'making bodies disappear' . In his November 29/12 interview with FBI (which ended up being his last) he indicated that he often wondered what happened to bodies in deep cold lakes. He imagined that there weren't many fish that went to the depths and that the victim's body might simply still be there, where it landed.

During the interview he did mention that there were possibly cars in the bottom of the lake with victims that have never been found, due to its depth. (Sounds like he read the article you mentioned, doesn't it Lucky?) He said he was surprised that the FBI didn't suspect that he put a victim in "Lake Crescent". To IK, it was an obvious choice.

What surprised me in the interview though, was that he implied that he didn't go to far out into the lake with his victim (as he was in a canoe and didn't travel far) but that it fell off sharply in depth only 30 feet out. How did he transport a body, attached to "4 to 5" milk jugs, out into the lake in a canoe and dump it without tipping? That's pretty tricky.


Switching topics, I'm still not sure what to make of the coincidence that he lived in so many places that were in very close proximity to the Canadian border. His parents would have chosen most of them. Was there something that his father was worried about? i.e. was the family looking for the ability to escape across the border in certain circumstances?

Colville WA -- ~25 miles from the central BC border

Smyrna Mills ME -- ~15 miles from the New Brunswick border. (In 1996, a group of Amish families settled in Smyrna. IK's family moved there around that time...perhaps a year later.)

Constable NY -- ~ 3 miles from the Quebec border (near the Ontario border).

Neah Bay WA -- ~ 12 miles by boat. Immediately across the Juan de Fuca Straight from Vancouver Island, B.C.

Does anyone else find this a weird coincidence? Even if they simply wanted to be far from civilization, there are many places that aren't so close to the border.

 

[Lucky 1]

Price of land, privacy, lack of zoning regulations.....generally speaking. And according to the article below, ”We wanted to be in an uncontaminated community”…”One less populated with plain people” Doesn't really have anything to do with proximity to the border. Few people want to live so far out with so few services, but that is exactly what the Amish are looking for.

http://amishamerica.com/amish-maine/

IMO, IK didn't look for these types of areas once out of the family home. He joined the military soon afterward, was in Tacoma for many years, then in Anchorage....surrounded by homes and families. Although close to a border, not the same situation IMVHO.

 

[Foxfire]

Why did Israel Keyes, break his rules of prey? IK, was a very disciplined predator for almost two decades. Imo,, IK planned to be apprehended for Samantha Koenig's abduction/murder.
From observation IK's Rules of prey:
* Always go dark & change modes of transportation a minimum of three times.
* Never abduct close to home base
* Always choose strangers
* Never leave witnesses alive
* Never have a motive.
* Never follow an obvious pattern.
* Never carry a firearm after use.
* Beware of leaving indictable residue; clues, forensics, bodies..
* Abort the mission that may have potentially undesirable or disastrous consequences.
* Never hunt twice in the same geographical area ot jurisdiction.
* Avoid security cameras and high traffic areas.
* Never carry your kill kit in your vehicle.
* Never share your secrets with others.
* Take advantage of jurisdictional linkage blindness when possible.
Imo, IK, was a collector/souvenirs, documented his evil deeds using pics & video, and would have likely hid them in the vicinity of his kill kits for revisiting..
IK, would not have gone to the grave without sharing the locations of his buried treasures; gold, silver, jewelry, etc..imo

_______________________________________________

RE:

Why did Israel Keyes, break his rules of prey? IK, was a very disciplined predator for almost two decades.

Imo, the last item on a prolific serial killer's bucket list is notoriety...

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/predators/jason_massey/7.html
<sniped BM>

Bones to Talk With

It was clear that had he not been stopped in July 1993, he would have killed again. His greatest ambition, he wrote in these books, was to become America's most famous serial killer. "My goal is 700 people in twenty years."

 

[Snoopster]

Price of land, privacy, lack of zoning regulations.....generally speaking. And according to the article below, ”We wanted to be in an uncontaminated community”…”One less populated with plain people” Doesn't really have anything to do with proximity to the border. Few people want to live so far out with so few services, but that is exactly what the Amish are looking for.

http://amishamerica.com/amish-maine/

IMO, IK didn't look for these types of areas once out of the family home. He joined the military soon afterward, was in Tacoma for many years, then in Anchorage....surrounded by homes and families. Although close to a border, not the same situation IMVHO.

I agree with all of those factors, but there are many places in the upper US that have those attributes but that aren't all within 25 miles of the border. That's incredibly close.

Neah Bay is essentially zero miles from the border as you can't go any closer to the border. Also with Neah Bay....simply hop in the boat, and?....no one land crossing.

Does anyone know how border services monitors that stretch of water? Do they have water patrols? What is to stop someone from taking their boat across the strait and simply landing in a fairly remote spot?

So much has been made in the Canadian media that IK isn't suspected of any murders during the couple of days he was known to be in Victoria. But what about days he wasn't known to be in Canada?

Similarly, in Constable NY, that is very, very close to Mohawk lands. Those lands span the border. Much smuggling of goods and people is done both ways across the border in that location. Simply have someone take you across the St. Lawrence River. I mentioned this point many months ago before we knew as much as we know now, but the coincidence is still bugging me.

And, now that I finally looked up where Smyrna Falls ME is, I was shocked to see the it was on the road to Canada, not many miles away at all. Maine is huge. Upper NY State is huge. Washington State is huge.

Just sayin'. :truce:

MOO, of course.

 

[northxnorthwest]

I know in WA state they patrol the "water border" incredibly well and always have people on the lookout. In the 70s it was easy to get over undetected and tons of drugs were smuggled across that way. Even if you were in a canoe the water patrols would be ON YOU ASAP.

 

[Lucky 1]

I understand what you are saying Snoopster, but will have to respectfully disagree. Remote land may be found that is not close to the borders, but I will guarantee you it is cheaper the closer you get to Canada. Cold, snowy, remote, few services, low taxes, few people = less cost. And I think that since IK grew up in those types of areas, they were where he was comfortable. IMVHO.

 

[digndoodle]

Switching topics, I'm still not sure what to make of the coincidence that he lived in so many places that were in very close proximity to the Canadian border. His parents would have chosen most of them. Was there something that his father was worried about? i.e. was the family looking for the ability to escape across the border in certain circumstances?

Colville WA -- ~25 miles from the central BC border

Smyrna Mills ME -- ~15 miles from the New Brunswick border. (In 1996, a group of Amish families settled in Smyrna. IK's family moved there around that time...perhaps a year later.)

Constable NY -- ~ 3 miles from the Quebec border (near the Ontario border).

Neah Bay WA -- ~ 12 miles by boat. Immediately across the Juan de Fuca Straight from Vancouver Island, B.C.

Does anyone else find this a weird coincidence? Even if they simply wanted to be far from civilization, there are many places that aren't so close to the border.
__________________

Snoopster, If you look long and hard at what you just said here, a lot of the answers to IK and "Family" will be found right in the above statements....I have some HUGE wonderings on the Father of this family........If this Keyes father had any similar beliefs as the Kehoe father had, it was HATE, Breaking in houses, and in the end Kirby Kehoe along with one son "Chevie" was charged with killing a family of 3....Father Mother and Daughter just to gain access to their known gun collection....Just sayin'

 

[digndoodle]

I understand what you are saying Snoopster, but will have to respectfully disagree. Remote land may be found that is not close to the borders, but I will guarantee you it is cheaper the closer you get to Canada. Cold, snowy, remote, few services, low taxes, few people = less cost. And I think that since IK grew up in those types of areas, they were where he was comfortable. IMVHO.

Lucky1....I don't know about this....Why did Keyes choose to live in Neah's Bay, they said in a very small type cabin, very tattered and worn...I take that to be very rundown..................the Father had a reason to pass this NY property along to his 1st born son and it was almost totally run down and is where the FBI did a 2 day search and apparently found a lot of items (in his back yard fire pit)????and even in Anchorage the house his GF owned was on a dead end street...

I had a friend come over last evening and she lived in Fairbanks Alaska, I had tons of questions for her of course but she told me that if a person wanted to literally drop off the face of the earth they could certainly do this in Fairbanks and other places there....Her husband was in Military there and she was associated with 4 families while there, she said there was nothing to do so on weekends they rented movies (all 4 families) cooked meals and often spent the entire weekend watching movies...they went camping in summer months and said although other campers were at this campground you might run into 1 or 2 families while there but even this was surprising...so I got an inside mind view of how easy it would be to go to Alaska and hide out from anything you had done...more or less, if you don't know other families, you are more or less on your own while there

 

[Lucky 1]

The Amish attempted to settle California in 1913 with one community at Salinas in Monterey County, but it only lasted a year. The seven families were from an Oregon community.

http://amishamerica.com/california-amish-community/

A California Amish community
Posted on May 23rd, 2007 in Amish Communities, Amish History

BBM

Over the course of a year, all but one of the California Amish left for other settlements (with the sole remaining member joining a Mormon group), bringing a swift end to the Amish &#8216;California experiment&#8217;.

http://amishamerica.com/amish-state-guide/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints_in_California

San Bernardino LDS colony

Main: History of San Bernardino, California: Mormon San Bernardino

The first colonization from Utah to California came in 1851 when a company of about 450 saints under direction of Elders Amasa M. Lyman and Charles C. Rich of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles settled at what is now San Bernardino. The colony was the final settlement in a string of Mormon communities extending 800 miles (1,300 km) from Salt Lake City in an area known as Deseret. The community thrived, and on July 6, 1851, the San Bernardino Stake, California's first, was organized. The colony was dissolved by the Church at the advance of Johnston's Army toward Salt Lake City in 1857. Brigham Young instructed the settlers to return to Utah to colonize. About 1,400 (fewer than half) returned to Utah at the request of the church. The San Bernardino Stake was dissolved in 1857 as well as the ecclesiastical units within the stake.[2]

Significant Church growth and history 1895-1990

The Los Angeles Branch was created on March 21, 1895.[6] In 1896, the Northern California and Southern California conferences were organized. The Sacramento Conference was added in 1898.[7] Most missionary work around the turn of the century took place in larger population centers.

On January 21, 1923, the Los Angeles Stake became the first stake to be created in the state since the San Bernardino Stake had been dissolved. The Los Angeles Stake was divided on May 22, 1927 to form the Los Angeles and Hollywood Stakes. On July 10, 1927, the San Francisco Stake was established.[8]

 

[Herding Cats]

In thinking about why a father would have his family in very remote areas...and thinking about the church the family joined after leaving the Mormon church...and in thinking about this whole thing...

Something that a lot of small (dare I ay it? "Oddball") churches teach is the theories around the Apocalypse. Without getting into a huge debate, there are two schools of thought - pre-tribulation rapture, and post-Trib rapture. If the church taught post-trib, then the whole 'survivalist' mentality comes into play.

One of the things taught in the apocaplyptic churches is that the US doesn't appear in any of the biblical teachings. Some would say that's because the US had declined and lost power, and/or ceased to exist in it's current form.

If one takes all of that, and adds it to an 'oddball' family...I'd have to say that the choice of being near a border would be ideal for a man who believed that perhaps the US would not survive to the Apocalypse, and the only way to survive once the Great Tribulation began might be to escape into another country...and into the wilderness.

It could also be shades of Manson - once the "race wars" break out, Canada would be a good place to flee to.

Dunno...I don't believe that it's a coincidence, though. Just thinking out loud here.

Best-
Herding Cats

 

[Lucky 1]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...nside-usually-limits-religious-community.html

Inside the Amish world: Eye-opening photographs offer a rare glimpse at the usually off-limits religious community

BBM

Photographer Lottie Hedley visited the H- family on Smyrna Mills, northern Maine, near the Canadian border and her series 'Unbroken' shows M- and V- and their family of five hard at work sustainably and organically farming their 20 acres of land.

The H-'s moved to what was an abandoned dairy farm in 1996,....

 

[Jersey*Girl]

_______________________________________________

RE:

Imo, the last item on a prolific serial killer's bucket list is notoriety...

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/predators/jason_massey/7.html
<sniped BM>

Bones to Talk With

It was clear that had he not been stopped in July 1993, he would have killed again. His greatest ambition, he wrote in these books, was to become America's most famous serial killer. "My goal is 700 people in twenty years."

Or he wasn't working alone... For him to take his life the way he did, idk I still have questions about it. I mean, why right then & there? Plus, nothing at all about how he took Sam & disposed of her...and everything he put Sonny through was reported on nationwide...none of it makes sense. So why did he change his MO? It's baffling.

Is it possible his part of the crime spree was over so he just went ahead & killed himself, but his game partner is still out there? If that's the case, could the other person be a she? Could he have killed himself to protect a child?

 

[Jersey*Girl]

In thinking about why a father would have his family in very remote areas...and thinking about the church the family joined after leaving the Mormon church...and in thinking about this whole thing...

Something that a lot of small (dare I ay it? "Oddball") churches teach is the theories around the Apocalypse. Without getting into a huge debate, there are two schools of thought - pre-tribulation rapture, and post-Trib rapture. If the church taught post-trib, then the whole 'survivalist' mentality comes into play.

One of the things taught in the apocaplyptic churches is that the US doesn't appear in any of the biblical teachings. Some would say that's because the US had declined and lost power, and/or ceased to exist in it's current form.

If one takes all of that, and adds it to an 'oddball' family...I'd have to say that the choice of being near a border would be ideal for a man who believed that perhaps the US would not survive to the Apocalypse, and the only way to survive once the Great Tribulation began might be to escape into another country...and into the wilderness.

It could also be shades of Manson - once the "race wars" break out, Canada would be a good place to flee to.

Dunno...I don't believe that it's a coincidence, though. Just thinking out loud here.

Best-
Herding Cats

There are so many missing people from Saskatchewan. There's a massive reservation population there as well. I can't stop wondering if Israel Keyes could be responsible for several missing people in Canada while maybe hiding within one of the resvations.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Amish lands have many laws within their own lands.

Aboriginal/Indians have many laws within their own lands.

Coincidence that a papa Keyes moves into an Amish environment when Israel is young and Israel grows up to utilize Indian Reservations? They're very similar as far as protected grandfathered laws are concerned. If its a coincidence, then it's a VERY BIG one.

Wonder if he was a conspiracist, or a radical in his beliefs. Maybe he was against government in general.