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SOME do. There's a BIG difference between preaching that a man should be the spiritual head of his family, and advocating things like this.
KS - Youth pastor Matthew Richards stabs wife and 4 sons before setting home on fire - September 17, 2023
- Thread starter Ebon
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The fact that the Youth Pastor is actually crazy?
IMO
And they won't ever get over this. I figure that the father lied to the family about his financial abilities, probably kept control of finances as best he could, and then, when he was about to be exposed (I'm sure there's a story here somewhere), he flipped out and enacted Plan Z.
He was not thinking and if he actually thought that he, himself, could get away with this - what kind of person is he???
Those poor kids.
And yet, that's what my mom's favorite church preached. There are plenty of churches preaching this. I would say it's fairly common in my student population (usually women tell me about it - it leads to all kinds of what I would call "nonsense.")
My dad pretty much insisted that my mom have equal financial say, but she decided he meant "only in terms of common household expenses and groceries." She thought he should make all the other decisions. For my mom "spiritual head" meant "decides most everything."
And we had an annual "contest" to find a Youth Pastor (when the church was at its peak of membership and donations). During the summer, Youth Pastors were recruited through the summer evangelical circuit, which sent the young men of our denomination far and wide, conducting tent evangelism. We girls were giddy with excitement to meet each year's group - and when our church decided to hire one on, it was an enviable position for the chosen Youth Pastor. My students recount similar experiences that are more recent.
The "nonsense" is that young women are not in the running for any such position, and that young men who otherwise would not have been employable except as Youth Pastors were according a great deal of admiration and...financial means (compared to mere "young man who is a member of the church." The Youth Pastor/Young Minister-Priest is actually now a thing in some video games. I was taught to trust these young men implicitly. And I watched one come to dominate a local family financially (not necessarily out of his own will, but because he was ambitious and well-regarded...as a Youth Pastor). Messes with a person's head, I think.
IMO.
BBM. Well said!
Of course it messes with a person's head! In the case of Nick Firkus, his second wife was getting calls from bill collectors and Nick would lie to her. She lived in fear she would meet the same fate as his first wife, Heidi.
JMO
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Some do, mine does not. Not all evangelical churches are the same. I think that's important for folks to understand.
Come to think of it, we see it a lot here (the "Golden Boy" ends up being wretched or criminal; cf. Bryan Kohberger, Patrick Frazee, Chris Watts, Barry Morphew, Alex Murdaugh...but I digress.
As an anthropologist, it's clear to me that every society (and every culture) has different notions of success for men and women, with the success of women often being ranged around nurturance, wife-ing, and mothering. It's only natural, I guess. But financial success becomes important to many men - and increasingly, we're seeing women motivated by financial success (that woman from Real Housewifes, or Lori Vallow).
It does mess with a young man's head. I need to look up the Nick Firkus case. It would be cool to have a metathread in the Jury Room area for adding new cases of this type. I'm thinking that the disappearance of Fang Jin may be related to a similarly over-confident and over-coddled person (whose family is now experiencing grief, but probably felt a deep desire to distance themselves from him, as well).
IMO. Total speculaton.
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I'm assuming these were actually lay pastors, and not ordained in any way?
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Within the same evangelical church, even of a more conservative trend, the relationship between different couples might be different. What we see is certain conformity with the traditions, that’s all. Who wears the pants in each individual family depends on multiple factors.
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ITA 100%.
In the Heidi Firkus case, she grew up in the Roseville evangelical Calvary church. It's where she met her husband. She had no knowledge of the next day foreclosure/eviction and neither did her parents.
I'm betting the circumstances of this case are very similar and the wife was kept totally in the dark about family finances. While both husbands claim to be Christian, the 9th Commandment about lying seems to have been totally ignored.
JMO
At Firkus murder trial, Heidi’s mother says 25-year-old didn’t know of impending eviction
Defense attorneys say Heidi Firkus knew about foreclosure and looming eviction. Prosecutors: not so.
www.twincities.com
‘The Core’
It wasn’t only Nick and Heidi Firkus’ parents who didn’t know about their financial situation or upcoming move, another witness testified Thursday.Sarah Olson said Heidi was one of her best friends. People called their group of friends — comprised of four women and each of their husbands — “The Core” because they “were so tight and always together,” Olson told jurors.
“We were like family, truly,” telling “each other everything,” Olson said.
They were all around the same age, all Evangelical Christians who were active in their churches, and they shared similar values about marriage, Olson said. They talked as a group about “how the man was supposed to lead, how we were supposed to … look at the man as the leader of the house,” Olson recounted on the witness stand.
Heidi Firkus’ parents previously said the couple, married for four years, both agreed that Nick would manage their finances.
I don't know exactly what you mean by "ordained." There are many different definitions - the church I grew up in has its own processes (and requires no coursework or anything of that nature).
All of the pastors at my childhood church were ordained (by the church itself; my uncle got "ordained" at a church down the street from me, and then went on to ordain others. You can become ordained by one of several online churches, for a small fee. My uncle paid $1000 for his ordination and took some classes at this church (which no longer exists; the leaders of the church were all self-ordained and have moved their base of operations to a more populated area).
Were our Youth Pastors ordained? I have no clue. But they came into town with the Evangelical Tent each summer. The Evangelical Tent was part of an inter-denominational summer program. I do know of ordained youth pastors though:
Reflections on My Ordination as a Youth Pastor — Youth Pastor Theologian
Not every youth pastor will get ordained - but here’s a glimpse into one youth pastor’s recent ordination process as he reflects on what it meant to him.
www.youthpastortheologian.com
In the case of the first Youth Pastor that was actually employed by our church, he *was* ordained by the church and his goal (which he never achieved due to a whole other ball of wax) was to be a regular pastor.
A friend of mine was ordained as a youth pastor in the Lutheran Church (Lutherans require some classes in theology - he was a theology major and then after his bachelor's, he was a Youth Pastor, and then got a doctorate in dvinity and became a regular pastor. But not all churches operate like the Lutherans. Ours certainly did not.
The main pastor we had in my childhood had no college education, was a former boxer. He was ordained via this process (the one where he receives a calling, then a church calls that pastor and then the church itself ordains the man):
The head Deacon for this process was my boss and the other deacons were all men of standing in the church (they did their deacon thing each Sunday, which included passing the offering plate - they too were ordained by the church).
Right now, where I live, there are megachurches who do the same church-based ordination and they have ordination ceremonies for Music Ministers, Youth Ministers, Regular Ministers and Sunday School Ministry. Some of them ordain women, but the church I attended, sadly, did not. Some of these ministers do have a college background (at least a couple of years, esp. the Music Ministers, but many do not).
I had a very good friend who did the complex ordination path of the Anglicans: I've never attended an Anglican church where the priest didn't have a doctorate of divinity, btw (and even then, they have to impress the bishop and do more stuff to be ordained):
This was all really new and different to me, given that my own childhood pastor was ordained by my boss and his friends (mostly retirees from blue collar jobs, actually; one was a retired postal worker).
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I'm not sure if there are any new details in this article, but LawAndCrime Network did do a piece on this case and in it, they quote the father:
lawandcrime.com
The details are taken from the arrest affidavit.
No word that I can find on how close this is to trial or what is happening legally.
'Monster' youth pastor stabbed family because of financial troubles, affidavit says
Describing himself as a "monster," a Kansas youth pastor stabbed his wife and five children because he feared they would be evicted from their house, investigators wrote in an arrest affidavit.
lawandcrime.com
The details are taken from the arrest affidavit.
No word that I can find on how close this is to trial or what is happening legally.
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I honestly hope that MR's wife is smarter than this moron and that the kids take after her.
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Well since you seem to have a Lawrence, KS, connection, here's one with a Lawrence connection. This case was in _In Cold Blood_ as the perpetrator was on Death Row with Smith and Hickock. You may already be familiar with this case.
Lowell Lee Andrews - Wikipedia
KU student from Kansas City, Kansas was home in KCK on Thanksgiving break and suddenly killed his whole family. Then he drove all the way to Lawrence and went to a late movie in the snow!
"Matthew Lee Richards pleaded guilty to two counts of attempted first degree murder."
www.kmbc.com
Former Shawnee pastor who attacked family, set house on fire to hide financial troubles, pleads guilty
Matthew Lee Richards pleaded guilty to two counts of attempted first degree murder.
www.kmbc.com
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TWO counts? Did he not try to murder SIX other people?"Matthew Lee Richards pleaded guilty to two counts of attempted first degree murder."
Former Shawnee pastor who attacked family, set house on fire to hide financial troubles, pleads guilty
Matthew Lee Richards pleaded guilty to two counts of attempted first degree murder.
What the heck?
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