AMBER ALERT NJ - Dulce Mariá Alavez, 5, abducted at Bridgeton City Park, Cumberland County, 16 Sept 2019 #4

[rosesfromangels]

AND....back to the little one.

I need a local or a map wizard to help me with this question. If we start at the point where we believe the child was last seen -(getting out of the mothers car to go play in the park) - where are there *direct pathways* that lead out of that area to secluded spots in the park. This would have been a very swift disappearance, and *not necessarily* by an auto. She may have been quickly whisked to a destination deep in to the woods; but via a path. Not necessarily a paved one, but a path.

Can we run with this idea and see where we end up? Anyone know the park well enough to help give ideas? Think some "hidden" path where kids go smoke pot; that sort of hidey type place.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[otto]

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When anyone is missing, or a victim of a crime, some people want to understand how it happened and what factors may have contributed to this particular victim becoming a victim.

In this case, from my perspective, it's easy to understand that Dulce was an easy victim for two reason. First, she is 5 years old and was alone at a playground with her 3 year old brother. The 8 year old and her mother were 50 yards away in a parked car and busy with something else. That tells me that she was looking out for herself and her little brother at the time that she was abducted. Secondly, she was wearing dress shoes. That tells me that she cannot run fast.

So what really happened? Not sure. The 3 year old reported that his ice cream was knocked to the ground. Dulce probably looks out for him, so what did she do next? Someone suggested some chasing. Did she try to help him, and someone tried to grab her? Did she try to get help and accidentally run in the opposite direction of her mother's car?

It seems that as soon as a predator assessed the situation - unattended children who are distracted with ice cream - very little could be done to prevent what happened. If there were two men, Dulce was cornered and helpless.

 

[otto]

What is your latest thinking on where this precious child is? I'm still laser focused on the park, and don't think she is far from where reportedly last seen.

Amateur opinion and speculation

It might be similar to the Evansdale cousins. They were in a secluded area at a park when abducted, and they were found 20 miles away. The Delphi girls were similarly in a secluded area at a park, and they were found nearby. It's hard to say where she might be found.

 

[otto]

AND....back to the little one.

I need a local or a map wizard to help me with this question. If we start at the point where we believe the child was last seen -(getting out of the mothers car to go play in the park) - where are there *direct pathways* that lead out of that area to secluded spots in the park. This would have been a very swift disappearance, and *not necessarily* by an auto. She may have been quickly whisked to a destination deep in to the woods; but via a path. Not necessarily a paved one, but a path.

Can we run with this idea and see where we end up? Anyone know the park well enough to help give ideas? Think some "hidden" path where kids go smoke pot; that sort of hidey type place.

Amateur opinion and speculation

There do not seem to be any trail maps of the area. I looked at historic maps of the area to see if the trails are more visible. This is from 2006.

 

[squareandrabbet]

As previously stated, I live in NYC, and I see plenty of people glued to their cell phones and ignoring their children. My friend is a writer and spends a lot of time in coffee shops and Panera in a mid-sized New England city, and has reported the same situation time out of mind. Granted, in most of these situations the parent has had their hands on the child's stroller, or the child is across the table on the opposite banquette chattering away nonstop so less than easy to lose; but the parents certainly aren't paying attention, and in situations where my friend and I have said "Those were really cute conversations. We wouldn't have minded participating in them, were we the parents in question"; and it's especially upsetting to hear the boy/girl chanting "Mommy/Daddy?" six to eight times consecutively as the individual in question ignores them. I have to fight the urge to say "I'm childless, and even I can tell you that there's going to be a time when you will have to beg your child to listen to you, and will wish you had their undivided attention. These are precious years; they don't come again."

A few months back I in fact went to see a Marvel movie in the theaters. Some single father went off to the bathroom and left his small son sitting in his seat during the previews, who couldn't have been more than 5 years of age. If the movie had started before the father returned, I was giving serious consideration to leaving my seat to get an usher; and I kept a hawkish eye on the kid the entire time. The father wasn't even around to answer questions: one of the trailers ended on a cliffhanger, and the kid cried out, "What happened?", as I fought the urge to call back gently "They want you to make sure you go watch the movie and find out." Noemi is 19. I've seen more lackadaisical behaviors from parents who looked to be pushing 30.

 

[otto]

As previously stated, I live in NYC, and I see plenty of people glued to their cell phones and ignoring their children. My friend is a writer and spends a lot of time in coffee shops and Panera in a mid-sized New England city, and has reported the same situation time out of mind. Granted, in most of these situations the parent has had their hands on the child's stroller, or the child is across the table on the opposite banquette chattering away nonstop so less than easy to lose; but the parents certainly aren't paying attention, and in situations where my friend and I have said "Those were really cute conversations. We wouldn't have minded participating in them, were we the parents in question"; and it's especially upsetting to hear the boy/girl chanting "Mommy/Daddy?" six to eight times consecutively as the individual in question ignores them. I have to fight the urge to say "I'm childless, and even I can tell you that there's gong to be a time when you will have to beg your child to listen to you, and will wish you had their undivided attention. These are precious years; they don't come again."

A few months back I in fact went to see a Marvel movie in the theaters. Some single father went off to the bathroom and left his small son sitting in his seat during the previews, who couldn't have been more than 5 years of age. If the movie had started before the father returned, I was giving serious consideration to leaving my seat to get an usher; and I kept a hawkish eye on the kid the entire time. The father wasn't even around to answer questions: one of the trailers ended on a cliffhanger, and the kid cried out, "What happened?", as I fought the urge to call back gently "They want you to make sure you go watch the movie and find out." Noemi is 19. I've seen more lackadaisical behaviors from parents who looked to be pushing 30.

You raise a good point. The children were having a visit with their mother - perhaps a short visit between returning from school and dinner with grandparents. I suppose the mother bought a lottery ticket at the time that she bought ice cream, and was excited to see if she had won anything. Some people are obsessive about the lottery. I'm guessing that no one ever told the mother that she should not leave her children alone at a playground, if only to ensure that she is there in the event of an accident or injury.

 

[squareandrabbet]

That Brown was shot in the mouth makes it more difficult to believe his murder wasn't related to Guyger's trial.

I live in a high crime city with a very high murder rate. I've never heard of any victim being shot in the mouth at close range. Ever.

You raise a good point. The children were having a visit with their mother - perhaps a short visit between returning from school and dinner with grandparents. I suppose the mother bought a lottery ticket at the time that she bought ice cream, and was excited to see if she had won anything. Some people are obsessive about the lottery. I'm guessing that no one ever told the mother that she should not leave her children alone at a playground, if only to ensure that she is there in the event of an accident or injury.

Also, how long does it take to scratch a lottery ticket? Technically you can just scratch off the barcode portion and scan it under one of those automated scanners. (That's advanced lottery-ology I don't expect everyone to know, although experienced players would). A child can fall on their face immediately and break a nose; most children don't, thus we feel OK letting them prance half a block ahead of us on the sidewalk.

I agree that situations like these tamper with people's deeply cherished beliefs about societal order and good behavior, and against randomness, where everyone seeks to shift the blame (2003 Chicago balcony collapse; Chicago authorities - "these people were to blame for 'jumping up and down' en masse on the balconies." Victims: "Nobody was doing anything of the kind! Isn't it usual and traditional that if you step out onto a balcony/porch/similar you expect that balcony to hold your weight without worrying about its sturdiness?"), etc. This blame-shifting occurs, IMO, because nobody wants to believe it could happen to them, law-abiding individuals taking all precautions.

 

[MimosaMornings]

If picked out of that freezer at the convenience store, probably not an ice cream cone. I’m thinking more like a popsicle or something on a stick. Something little hands can hold and carry while they run to the playground.
Somewhere I saw something about coconut water and a spoon for Dulce?

 

[imstilla.grandma]

The family of missing Dulce Maria Alavez has planned a Sunday search around the park where the 5-year-old went missing almost three weeks ago in a possible abduction.

Authorities conducted a massive sweep of Bridgeton City Park days after Dulce’s Sept. 16 disappearance, but her whereabouts still remain a mystery. Cumberland County Prosecutor Jennifer Webb-McRae on Friday said it was more than likely she was no longer in the area, the Vineland Daily Journal reported.

Sunoco gas station.

https://www.nj.com/resizer/36_6KI8A...aws.com/public/PVZRBL7YVBATZFWVRGVNYH5MFY.jpg

The family will join residents at 12:30 p.m. Sunday and begin the search party at the playground where Dulce was last seen. A candlelit vigil to pray for her safe return was also held near the same playground almost a week after the girl went missing.

A $40,000 reward was collected to aid in her search. The Philadelphia Fraternal Order of Police Lodge #5 offered an additional $5,000 on Friday for any information that leads to an arrest.
Family of missing 5-year-old Dulce Alavez return to park where she disappeared for search

 

[imstilla.grandma]

This week on Flashpoint: Host and KYW Community Affairs reporter Cherri Gregg asks the burning questions about missing children.
https://omny.fm/shows/flashpoint/flashpoint-a-child-goes-missing-what-to-do-dante-h/embed

In recent weeks, the story of 5-year-old Dulce Alavez's disappearance from a Bridgeton park has made headlines. She was allegedly lured away from her mother and has not been seen in more than two weeks.

In Upper Darby, there have been numerous reports of child lurings near local schools. Plus, each week a number of teens go missing, and some are reported to be in danger. So what can parents do in the event of a missing child?

Upper Darby Police Superintendent Mike Chitwood joins Ed Iannucci, owner of Kim's Karate who also runs the Safe and Sound Program, and Eileen Law, a CIA detective and president-elect of the Pennsylvania Association of Licensed Investigators.
Flashpoint: A child goes missing — what to do, Dante Hailey's triumph and Laurel House

 

[jjenny]

Nothing and nobody has been “ cleared”........as per last press conference.

Res suv was.
"Video that aired on NBC’s affiliate in Philadelphia earlier this week showing a red SUV was investigated and deemed unrelated to the search, authorities said."
Amber Alert for Dulce Alavez: Unanswered questions in the search for missing 5-year-old girl

 

[jjenny]

If picked out of that freezer at the convenience store, probably not an ice cream cone. I’m thinking more like a popsicle or something on a stick. Something little hands can hold and carry while they run to the playground.
Somewhere I saw something about coconut water and a spoon for Dulce?

You can see in the convenience store video what kind of ice cream they got. Ducle's was some sort of cup. So you'd expect a paper cup remaining if she dropped it, and as far as I can tell they found nothing.

 

[otto]

You can see in the convenience store video what kind of ice cream they got. Ducle's was some sort of cup. So you'd expect a paper cup remaining if she dropped it, and as far as I can tell they found nothing.

If she was running, she wasn't running fast enough to drop her ice cream or lose a shoe.

If the 3 year old's ice cream was knocked to the ground, that means that someone was standing right next to the children when that happened. That means the suspect was close enough to have a conversation, and to say something to Dulce that could have caused her to remain quiet and go with him. Maybe he offered to take her to get another ice cream for her brother.

 

[rosesfromangels]

You can see in the convenience store video what kind of ice cream they got. Ducle's was some sort of cup. So you'd expect a paper cup remaining if she dropped it, and as far as I can tell they found nothing.

Which leads me to speculate that she knew this person, and was lead off compliantly. The little boy may have attempted to cling to his sister and was pushed away, dropping his treat. I wonder if he had skinned knees or any signs of having fallen?

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Daisyeve]

I have wondered why that play area was open to the public because the pictures posted on earlier threads show that equipment was being installed and it didn’t look safe. It would be hard to run around all that stuff lying in the ground. Is there not a safer playground close by? Did they feel more comfortable at this park for some reason?

 

[jjenny]

Which leads me to speculate that she knew this person, and was lead off compliantly. The little boy may have attempted to cling to his sister and was pushed away, dropping his treat. I wonder if he had skinned knees or any signs of having fallen?

Amateur opinion and speculation

It has never been reported he had any injuries, and there is a link posted somewhere on the thread to the effect that authorities couldn't verify the ice cream incident. So it doesn't even look like it was possible to verify somebody knocked down his ice cream.

 

[Rosiebones]

If she was running, she wasn't running fast enough to drop her ice cream or lose a shoe.

If the 3 year old's ice cream was knocked to the ground, that means that someone was standing right next to the children when that happened. That means the suspect was close enough to have a conversation, and to say something to Dulce that could have caused her to remain quiet and go with him. Maybe he offered to take her to get another ice cream for her brother.

Or, she caused the brother to drop his cone and he was crying and she got scared and ran between the buildings to get out of sight of her mother and either kept on running or ran into water. There is no direct way out of the park to the south. Either cross Jeddy's Pond or to the other stream to the east, I don't know what it is called. Anyway for a 5 year old child alone all her ways were blocked by water except back in the direction her mother was, at the playground, bb courts, Burt Road and the high school.

 

[jjenny]

Or, she caused the brother to drop his cone and he was crying and she got scared and ran between the buildings to get out of sight of her mother and either kept on running or ran into water. There is no direct way out of the park to the south. Either cross Jeddy's Pond or to the other stream to the east, I don't know what it is called. Anyway for a 5 year old child alone all her ways were blocked by water except back in the direction her mother was, at the playground, bb courts, Burt Road and the high school.

It sounds like a plausible theory to me (siblings do bicker now and then) but where would she be? They searched the park repeatedly and didn't find her. They even drained a water out of something and still didn't find her.

 

[ProtectChildren]

Which leads me to speculate that she knew this person, and was lead off compliantly. The little boy may have attempted to cling to his sister and was pushed away, dropping his treat. I wonder if he had skinned knees or any signs of having fallen?

Amateur opinion and speculation

This is the idea I've been concluding. She has been described as running off, not necessarily as being chased. For what ever reason, she being a 5 year old girl was valued and targeted over the 3 year old boy.
If you watch the press conference from Friday it is clear that there are a lot of uncertainties that were originally presented as facts.
At this point, I don't hold a lot of weight to the idea that there was a red van, or a van at all. The description of the Hispanic male in red and black and orange shoes seems not very certain either.

I hope today's search returns something, some evidence, gets people talking, anything to help find her.

 

[Rosiebones]

Google Maps
If she ran south past the baseball field, you can see that she is hemmed in by water. Jeddy's Pond becomes Muddy Run.
I have not seen in LE releases any indication that these areas of woods and water have been searched.
They have searched Sunset Lake, and in fact that is one of the first areas they searched. They drained that other area where they do boat racing, but I don't know that they have thoroughly searched this pond and Muddy Run.
I think LE got sidetracked on the red van and the Hispanic male and looked at her having been abducted and taken out of the park.
I think she is there. MOO MOO MOO