Norway Norway - Oslo - WhtFem 20-30 - Fake Name - Shot in Hotel Room - 3 June 1995 #2

[Cedars]

In post #161 at the top of the last page @Beekarina posts an article which explains how this exact same locking system was professionally tested and was easily manipulated/ locked from the outside with a piece of string passing through in seconds then quickly concealed in a pocket.

But there's no evidence anyone actually used any such technique.

I've noticed that someone very dedicated a particular theory will often go to any lengths to promote it and try to overcome all objections. And it's all fun and games

I'm just glad it's not the way law enforcement does investigations: coming up with theoretical ways to invalidate the evidence, so they can continue with their pet theory and, for example, prosecute someone who is innocent.

JMO

 

[Beekarina]

I'm open to any explanation for the truth.

The gentleman who showed how it was possible seems the same. He is a Norwegian guy who works in hotel security, if I recall correctly. Law enforcement was quoted as saying they sometimes use the same method to lock up behind themselves when they do not have a key, so it really is not "out there" as a possibility.

I could see it when I looked at the type of "dead bolt" and having had these on many doors at places where I have stayed myself. It is interesting. Whether it IS what happened in Oslo with "Jennifer Fairgate", we may never know.

 

[Warwick1991]

Looking at the video of the room posted at the start of the thread, the room did not have any doors that led to adjoining rooms. So, that eliminates another person leaving by that kind of route.

 

[branmuffin]

Looking at the video of the room posted at the start of the thread, the room did not have any doors that led to adjoining rooms. So, that eliminates another person leaving by that kind of route.

One thing I remember reading is that when JF first arrived she was given a set of key cards and then when she extended her stay she was issued another set. The issue of two cards was because of Lois. The desk clerk who checked her in said he came into the hotel with JF initially although no one can remember seeing him later during the period JF stayed. The statement given by the desk clerk is why in the film that recreated her arrival she is shown as coming in with a man who stayed in the background.

There's several oversights that occurred not only with the check in process where the head desk clerk said they always ask for ID yet another guest who stayed in a room opposite JF said they weren't asked to provide ID either. So there were gaps in security. That means it's possible that the two earlier key cards were not not de-activated or given back to the front desk so JF and her mystery partner had four key cards in their possession. If LE didn't check the two remaining keycards that were in the room, just assumed they were the only ones in her possession, it's possible how someone left the room after the security guard left.

In the film that recreated her arrival the girl playing JF signed the card using her left hand. Was that because they couldn't find someone else who had the same looks: petite, short hair, blue eyes or was it because she was left handed, too. The writing on the card doesn't look like someone who is left handed since many times their handwriting has a backward slant because of the awkward way they have to hold the pen. However, one of my friends who was a teacher is left handed and she writes with a right handed slant. I'm right handed and I write with left handed slant. If the desk clerk said she was left handed then that could be an issue with her holding the weapon in her right hand.

As for the locking mechanism of the door with the lever pulled up, according to AI (and we all know how it screws stuff up) lots of people pull up the lever when leaving the room to ensure that the room won't be opened while they are away. It's used mostly for privacy and to stop staff entering the room but it can't be considered a security measure since it can be overridden by specific staff members with security clearance.

Edited to add: another thing that seems odd is that in recreation they show JF standing alone in the foyer of the hotel as if she's waiting for someone. I don't remember whether that was right after check-in when she supposedly entered with a man (hence the two key cards) or whether it was some time after her check in. The timeline hasn't been identified or verified AFAIK.

 

[branmuffin]

Interesting on what you described. I have to agree with you about “Jennifer” being murdered. Too many little things in this case don’t add up to suicide in my view. Not just the lack of gunshot residue on her hands but also the presence of two cans of half drunk soda and half eaten food as well as the presence of “Louis Fergate”. If she had a preference I can’t see her drinking two cans of different soda but that’s based on my experience.

I'm late answering this but the issue of the two cans of half drunk soda should have been tested for DNA. DNA first became an innovative way to identify someone way back in 1985 so the technology wasn't that new. Did Norway have the expertise to test something like that just to tick off the boxes of another avenue for finding out whether she'd been alone in the room or did they make assumptions that both were consumed by JF. Even though you couldn't use DNA to identify the deceased you could use it to identify a perp. Since the whole investigation was tied up pretty neatly with the idea of suicide vs homicide the normal processes that are part of an investigation appear to be overlooked. Even in suicides that are obviously the result of a self inflicted wound or manner of death, the legal process that LE and medical profession go through can take months before its signed off on. So in my estimation, the cops investigating this case, skipped a whole bunch of processes to come to a decision that has dogged them for decades. Here's the processes that even a garden variety death goes through in Ontario.

Death investigations

Learn about death investigations and how the process helps improve public safety and prevent future deaths.

www.ontario.ca

 

[GracefulD1an]

I'm late answering this but the issue of the two cans of half drunk soda should have been tested for DNA. DNA first became an innovative way to identify someone way back in 1985 so the technology wasn't that new. Did Norway have the expertise to test something like that just to tick off the boxes of another avenue for finding out whether she'd been alone in the room or did they make assumptions that both were consumed by JF. Even though you couldn't use DNA to identify the deceased you could use it to identify a perp. Since the whole investigation was tied up pretty neatly with the idea of suicide vs homicide the normal processes that are part of an investigation appear to be overlooked. Even in suicides that are obviously the result of a self inflicted wound or manner of death, the legal process that LE and medical profession go through can take months before its signed off on. So in my estimation, the cops investigating this case, skipped a whole bunch of processes to come to a decision that has dogged them for decades. Here's the processes that even a garden variety death goes through in Ontario.

Death investigations

Learn about death investigations and how the process helps improve public safety and prevent future deaths.

www.ontario.ca

See this is why I feel like the investigation was smudged by someone, possibly out of fear of a scandal connected to Britain. I know even in cases of obvious suicide a thorough investigation needs to be conducted to confirm it was a suicide and not a homicide. The fact they immediately decided it was a suicide feels wrong, it feels like someone made threats, warned that if someone didn’t mark “Jennifer’s” death as a suicide horrors would rain down. It all goes back to “Lois Fergate” and my suspicions of ties to Britain. Who exactly was “Lois Fergate” and what connections did he have? Why all the secrecy? I feel like us finding “Lois” will lead to finding “Jennifer’s” true name and lead to answers that might have been buried 30 years ago.

 

[Cedars]

dbm

 

[branmuffin]

See this is why I feel like the investigation was smudged by someone, possibly out of fear of a scandal connected to Britain. I know even in cases of obvious suicide a thorough investigation needs to be conducted to confirm it was a suicide and not a homicide. The fact they immediately decided it was a suicide feels wrong, it feels like someone made threats, warned that if someone didn’t mark “Jennifer’s” death as a suicide horrors would rain down. It all goes back to “Lois Fergate” and my suspicions of ties to Britain. Who exactly was “Lois Fergate” and what connections did he have? Why all the secrecy? I feel like us finding “Lois” will lead to finding “Jennifer’s” true name and lead to answers that might have been buried 30 years ago.

I don't see any connection to the UK at all based on the evidence left behind. Other than the fact her fake name is a British sounding name. She could have been a South Asian and that may have been where LE started their investigation to ID her but they would have been heading in the wrong direction if she was a 3rd generation, born in the UK person.

There's no evidence of threats anywhere relating to British scandals, imo. Where do you see them? Most of the conjectures I've made are based on the evidence or lack thereof, found in the hotel room ie, no blood spatter or GSR on the gun, only her fingerprints. There were maintenance staff who came in to tidy and clean up but oddly no other prints of the supposed person she came to the hotel with in the hotel were found. If anyone is ever interested in wondering what type of biological findings LE usually find in a hotel room they'd be shocked. Using a black light there is all kinds of evidence: saliva, blood, urine, fingerprints, feces, palm prints, vomit, etc. Cleaners change the sheets but not the duvet covers, they clean the mirrors, toilets and sinks and a quick wash of the bathroom floor and vacuum but they don't clean the windows (and one of them was open) and probably don't wipe down the tv remote or surfaces like the desk if there's no evidence of obvious dirt like rings from drinks, etc. The fact a cursory review of fingerprints on obvious items the deceased probably used like a potato chip bag, a bottle of perfume, the soft drink cans, cutlery, etc. don't really round out things that most people would touch after spending three days in the room like light switches, toilet seats and handles, tv remote, etc.

 

[Cedars]

I'm open to any explanation for the truth.

Yes, aren't we all. However, IMO, 'truth' is almost impossible in the real world.

If someone had been in the room and witnessed the whole thing and said it was suicide, could that be called the truth? Of course not! Suspicion would immediately focus on them!

I guess if there was CCTV footage everywhere, we might feel we could know everything about everything - but again we see claims that someone has altered the footage, etc

IMO, the way law-enforcement handle this IRL is to adopt a practical approach of:

1 investigate all the circumstances with an open mind and try to learn as many factual details as possible

2 Be alert for any signs or clues that indicate foul play.

3 If there is no actual, positive, evidence of foul play, close the case so you can move on to investigate all the other cases demanding your attention.

IMO, mysteries like this approach it from a different angle. In particular, the tendency is to look for ways that 'normal' circumstance could potentially, in a theoretical world, have been staged, by a theoretical perp.

And secondly, it's easy to focus on the case forever, because you can ignore all the other cases.

JMO