Norway Norway - Oslo - WhtFem 20-30 - Fake Name - Shot in Hotel Room - 3 June 1995 #2

[GracefulD1an]

Thing is, from everything I understand, thr only thing preventing her DNA profile being uploaded to the various international databases is that Norweigian law prevents it.

That law changing, I think, will change everything!

Agreed. It will be a game changer.

 

[branmuffin]

I think it's an assumption that she physically left the hotel. Without cameras no one can say where she went. See for me, Occam's Razor suggests she visited another room rather than physically left the hotel. Part of that has to do with the fact of the missing bottom clothes. You'd be hard pressed to wander into a high class hotel wearing nothing but dance pants undies.

I'm sure it was mentioned somewhere that it was established that she left the hotel for that day, not simply went to another room within it. You may be right, though.

I'm not saying anything as a certain fact. I'm applying Occam's Razor; the principle that the simplest answer, the one requiring the fewest assumptions, is usually the correct one. All of the others seem to involve multiple more steps and assumptions.

The placement of her hands may be unusual. However, it is a perfectly plausible method and is easy to do. Firearms are actually often notoriously difficult to lift fingerprints from. Example, we know for a certain fact that her hand was on it. Therefore it follows that there should be fingerprints even if it was placed in her hands after she was dead? There were none, though.

No GSR or biological stuff either which IS unusual. I made mention of the fact that the Browning 9mm Highpower has soft recoil but you said it doesn't yet numerous sites say the opposite. I don't know why that would be. Also, I have been reading about the issues the Browning Highpower has. Since you said last year that you would be in possession of one I was hoping you'd give us some insight into what you experienced with the weapon and whether you experienced and 'short stroking' of the trigger. There are quite a few websites that discuss this very thing which is an anomaly with this particular weapon when referring to the trigger and whether that could have been something that happened when the deceased had the weapon in her hand with her thumb on the trigger. Maybe explain it to us in laymen's terms. I also rewatched the 2022 video where her remains were disinterred for them to get some DNA analysis that apparently was sent to Australia. So I went on a search to find out how many LE agencies, decades after an unknown deceased person whose manner of death was determined suicide, would decide to dig up a body nearly 30 years later. Why would a LE unit cave to the the almost cult like following of the death of this woman who believe her death was not self inflicted? It makes no sense to me.

Another thing I remembered after watching the initial video is, it was claimed that the deceased held the gun to her forehead leaving a star shaped entrance wound and that the bullet path suggesting the weapon was pointing down. So without the coroner's report identifying the path of the bullet made, I'd like to know how most of the blood spatter was high up on the wall above the bed. She was 5 foot 2. She was found in a reclining position when found but was she sitting or lying down when that bullet entered her brain?

 

[Beekarina]

If I may tag along and add a weapons related question, one that I am having trouble with is the position of her arm that was holding the gun. I understand about the tension that can sometimes happen at the time of death as an explanation for why the gun did not fly out of her hand and across the room. What seems strange to me is how her arm ended up resting on her chest after shooting herself in the forehead with that grip?

It seems more like your arm would fall to the side? Is there a professional or medical explanation for this as well? For obvious reasons, I would not point an unloaded weapon at myself, but just making what I think the motion would be with an empty hand it seems really awkward......If someone can explain, would love to hear it.

 

[Marie A]

“Jennifer” obviously had some connection to Belgium.
She gave a fake address in Belgium and she made a lot of calls from her hotel room to phone numbers in Belgium.

I was told several years ago (around 2001) by a friend who lives in Belgium to avoid the area in and around Liege. She said that’s a very dangerous area with all the illegal drugs that come into Europe being fenced through Liege.
Of course that is likely an exaggeration and may have been a short lived situation.
Curiously- Jennifer’s fake address in Verlaine is not far from Liege.
Also Brussels isn’t far from Antwerp where all the diamonds are cut and traded and some funny business has gone on.

But I don’t necessarily think Jennifer was involved in the drug or diamond trades -
I do think she was most certainly some sort of spy involved in espionage.
There was definitely ongoing counterintelligence with US and Russia going on around this time 1995-
I still think that Jennifer was part of the E German Stasi - assassin or intelligence - or possibly from Hungary where her fake Browning pistol originated.
I knew a Hungarian lady who looked similar to Jennifer- exact same haircut too- around the same time they found Jennifer.
My Hungarian friend was neat and polished and dressed in similar fashion -had a professional career- and that very short dark pixie haircut- though she was older than Jennifer.
Jennifer could have well been Russian, Belarusian or from another Eastern European country.
Purportedly Russian intelligence / KGB shifted towards leveraging organized crime around this time so certainly Jennifer may have been collateral damage from a major drug operation. She may also have been drugged herself before her demise.
Whether she did herself in or not (I think she was done in)- she was still a likely spy IMHO

 

[GigaParsec]

“Jennifer” obviously had some connection to Belgium.
She gave a fake address in Belgium and she made a lot of calls from her hotel room to phone numbers in Belgium.

I was told several years ago (around 2001) by a friend who lives in Belgium to avoid the area in and around Liege. She said that’s a very dangerous area with all the illegal drugs that come into Europe being fenced through Liege.
Of course that is likely an exaggeration and may have been a short lived situation.
Curiously- Jennifer’s fake address in Verlaine is not far from Liege.
Also Brussels isn’t far from Antwerp where all the diamonds are cut and traded and some funny business has gone on.

But I don’t necessarily think Jennifer was involved in the drug or diamond trades -
I do think she was most certainly some sort of spy involved in espionage.
There was definitely ongoing counterintelligence with US and Russia going on around this time 1995-
I still think that Jennifer was part of the E German Stasi - assassin or intelligence - or possibly from Hungary where her fake Browning pistol originated.
I knew a Hungarian lady who looked similar to Jennifer- exact same haircut too- around the same time they found Jennifer.
My Hungarian friend was neat and polished and dressed in similar fashion -had a professional career- and that very short dark pixie haircut- though she was older than Jennifer.
Jennifer could have well been Russian, Belarusian or from another Eastern European country.
Purportedly Russian intelligence / KGB shifted towards leveraging organized crime around this time so certainly Jennifer may have been collateral damage from a major drug operation. She may also have been drugged herself before her demise.
Whether she did herself in or not (I think she was done in)- she was still a likely spy IMHO

This is possibly true, the part about espionage, the Cold War was only starting to die down in the 1990s, and the Stasi is known as one of the most brutal secret police ever, and is the literal DEFINITION of surveillance state, even having members unknowingly spy on each other to make sure of compliance. At one point, I think almost 20% of E Germany was partial members of the Stasi. I think that they may have played an important role in this.

If I may tag along and add a weapons related question, one that I am having trouble with is the position of her arm that was holding the gun. I understand about the tension that can sometimes happen at the time of death as an explanation for why the gun did not fly out of her hand and across the room. What seems strange to me is how her arm ended up resting on her chest after shooting herself in the forehead with that grip?

It seems more like your arm would fall to the side? Is there a professional or medical explanation for this as well? For obvious reasons, I would not point an unloaded weapon at myself, but just making what I think the motion would be with an empty hand it seems really awkward......If someone can explain, would love to hear it.

That's true, it usually depends on where the person has decided to shoot themselves, unless she has reached her arm around her body to the other side and pointed the gun diagonally at her head. I think the arm falling across the body is unlikely at best. I think somebody else may have killed her, maybe an Eastern bloc agent or something

 

[GigaParsec]

I read an article about this from Parade.com (Who Is Jennifer Fairgate? Unsolved Mysteries' Co-Creator Insists 'Someone Is Missing' This Unidentified Victim)
It said that (important points)

The hotel worker said she arrived with a man named Lois Fairgate when she checked in, who was supposed to be staying with her, but the man wasn’t seen at all after checking in. [......]

[......] In 2016, Fairgate’s body was exhumed, and it was determined she was of European descent, possibly German. Some witnesses at the hotel claimed that they overheard her speaking German, and a coat had a German label inside (the only item of clothing in which the label wasn’t removed). [......]

[......] She also had a significant amount of bullets in her luggage [......]

[......] “Mr F” was a Belgian man staying in the next room from Fairgate at the Oslo Plaza Hotel. Mr F said he heard about Fairgate’s death from the front desk when he checked out of the hotel on Saturday morning…but Fairgate’s body wasn’t found until Saturday night. “Mr F” also claimed to have not heard any unusual sounds from her room and never spoke to the police [......]

[......] Fairgate was in room 2805 of the Oslo Plaza Hotel, but a newspaper was found in her room from room 2816 [......]

I also remember the maids said they remembered seeing a very specific pair of shoes in the closet, but the shoes were gone when the body was found.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

I feel we also do not know if she disposed of some of her belongings, or if someone else took them, intentionally or in haste by grabbing the wrong bag (the rolling suitcase) when they meant to grab the Braun case with the ammo?

You have a good point. Something like that would be an easy explanation for some of her clothing "disappearing."

Has Merle Vanderheiden ever been considered for Oslo Jane Doe? She was US Army Intelligence and went missing in 1990 with her daughter after abducting her from daycare - she is not listed as a missing person and therefore might have been skipped.

Any idea why Merle isn't in the missing persons' databases?

 

[GracefulD1an]

Good question which I have no answer to. Honestly it sounds like people suspect she’s hiding under a false identity provided by the Children of the Underground and they view her as a fugitive so maybe that’s why. To be honest if she is “Jennifer” then where is her daughter?

 

[branmuffin]

Good question which I have no answer to. Honestly it sounds like people suspect she’s hiding under a false identity provided by the Children of the Underground and they view her as a fugitive so maybe that’s why. To be honest if she is “Jennifer” then where is her daughter?

She's too old to be Jennifer. Merle was born in 1950 so would have been 45 at the time Jennifer died. Sometimes autopsies are sloppily done but since the coroner thought she was older, closer to 30, he wouldn't miss that she gave birth or that she was much older. Plus JF is 3 inches shorter than Merle, and has blue eyes.

 

[GracefulD1an]

Which is why I don’t think she was Merle. Honestly I think her identity will be determined by genetic genealogy.

 

[Warwick1991]

I think it's an assumption that she physically left the hotel. Without cameras no one can say where she went. See for me, Occam's Razor suggests she visited another room rather than physically left the hotel. Part of that has to do with the fact of the missing bottom clothes. You'd be hard pressed to wander into a high class hotel wearing nothing but dance pants undies.


No GSR or biological stuff either which IS unusual. I made mention of the fact that the Browning 9mm Highpower has soft recoil but you said it doesn't yet numerous sites say the opposite. I don't know why that would be. Also, I have been reading about the issues the Browning Highpower has. Since you said last year that you would be in possession of one I was hoping you'd give us some insight into what you experienced with the weapon and whether you experienced and 'short stroking' of the trigger. There are quite a few websites that discuss this very thing which is an anomaly with this particular weapon when referring to the trigger and whether that could have been something that happened when the deceased had the weapon in her hand with her thumb on the trigger. Maybe explain it to us in laymen's terms. I also rewatched the 2022 video where her remains were disinterred for them to get some DNA analysis that apparently was sent to Australia. So I went on a search to find out how many LE agencies, decades after an unknown deceased person whose manner of death was determined suicide, would decide to dig up a body nearly 30 years later. Why would a LE unit cave to the the almost cult like following of the death of this woman who believe her death was not self inflicted? It makes no sense to me.

Another thing I remembered after watching the initial video is, it was claimed that the deceased held the gun to her forehead leaving a star shaped entrance wound and that the bullet path suggesting the weapon was pointing down. So without the coroner's report identifying the path of the bullet made, I'd like to know how most of the blood spatter was high up on the wall above the bed. She was 5 foot 2. She was found in a reclining position when found but was she sitting or lying down when that bullet entered her brain?

As a target shooter here in the US, I actually own a variant of the the Browning High Power, aka P-35 or GP-35. I don't shoot it often, but I took it out of my safe yesterday, checked to make sure it was empty, and examined it. For safety reasons, I would never point it at myself, period.

I did ascertain that I could grip the pistol awkwardly, and pull the trigger with my thumb. In my opinion, it is an unnatural way to pull the trigger, but it's possible to shoot it that way. As far as recoil goes, while the weight of the pistol absorbs some of the recoil, I personally wouldn't call it soft, but it has less recoil than some other pistols. Recoil is perceived differently by different people. Although there are variants with aluminum frames, most GP-35s are all steeI, and weigh more than most modern pistols with polymer frames. The weight of all metal pistols does make recoil softer.

I think that the weight of the pistol might cause her shooting hand to come to rest on her chest instead of the side of her body. It's a heavy pistol, and would probably force her hand and arm down on her chest if there was no conscious movement from her arm to prevent it. Recoil in this pistol wouldn't cause the pistol to fly out of her hand or off the bed. Still, there's nothing to disprove that someone didn't place the pistol in her hand, or even force her to pull the trigger.

As to whether this was murder or suicide, I still lean towards murder. There are too many odd anomalies to call this a suicide.

 

[GracefulD1an]

As a target shooter here in the US, I actually own a variant of the the Browning High Power, aka P-35 or GP-35. I don't shoot it often, but I took it out of my safe yesterday, checked to make sure it was empty, and examined it. For safety reasons, I would never point it at myself, period.

I did ascertain that I could grip the pistol awkwardly, and pull the trigger with my thumb. In my opinion, it is an unnatural way to pull the trigger, but it's possible to shoot it that way. As far as recoil goes, while the weight of the pistol absorbs some of the recoil, I personally wouldn't call it soft, but it has less recoil than some other pistols. Recoil is perceived differently by different people. Although there are variants with aluminum frames, most GP-35s are all steeI, and weigh more than most modern pistols with polymer frames. The weight of all metal pistols does make recoil softer.

I think that the weight of the pistol might cause her shooting hand to come to rest on her chest instead of the side of her body. It's a heavy pistol, and would probably force her hand and arm down on her chest if there was no conscious movement from her arm to prevent it. Recoil in this pistol wouldn't cause the pistol to fly out of her hand or off the bed. Still, there's nothing to disprove that someone didn't place the pistol in her hand, or even force her to pull the trigger.

As to whether this was murder or suicide, I still lean towards murder. There are too many odd anomalies to call this a suicide.

Interesting on what you described. I have to agree with you about “Jennifer” being murdered. Too many little things in this case don’t add up to suicide in my view. Not just the lack of gunshot residue on her hands but also the presence of two cans of half drunk soda and half eaten food as well as the presence of “Louis Fergate”. If she had a preference I can’t see her drinking two cans of different soda but that’s based on my experience.

 

[Warwick1991]

Interesting on what you described. I have to agree with you about “Jennifer” being murdered. Too many little things in this case don’t add up to suicide in my view. Not just the lack of gunshot residue on her hands but also the presence of two cans of half drunk soda and half eaten food as well as the presence of “Louis Fergate”. If she had a preference I can’t see her drinking two cans of different soda but that’s based on my experience.

And there are missing shoes and clothing...

 

[GracefulD1an]

And there are missing shoes and clothing...

That too. Can’t forget that.

 

[branmuffin]

As a target shooter here in the US, I actually own a variant of the the Browning High Power, aka P-35 or GP-35. I don't shoot it often, but I took it out of my safe yesterday, checked to make sure it was empty, and examined it. For safety reasons, I would never point it at myself, period.

I did ascertain that I could grip the pistol awkwardly, and pull the trigger with my thumb. In my opinion, it is an unnatural way to pull the trigger, but it's possible to shoot it that way. As far as recoil goes, while the weight of the pistol absorbs some of the recoil, I personally wouldn't call it soft, but it has less recoil than some other pistols. Recoil is perceived differently by different people. Although there are variants with aluminum frames, most GP-35s are all steeI, and weigh more than most modern pistols with polymer frames. The weight of all metal pistols does make recoil softer.

I think that the weight of the pistol might cause her shooting hand to come to rest on her chest instead of the side of her body. It's a heavy pistol, and would probably force her hand and arm down on her chest if there was no conscious movement from her arm to prevent it. Recoil in this pistol wouldn't cause the pistol to fly out of her hand or off the bed. Still, there's nothing to disprove that someone didn't place the pistol in her hand, or even force her to pull the trigger.

As to whether this was murder or suicide, I still lean towards murder. There are too many odd anomalies to call this a suicide.

Thank you for that information. I'm just wondering if the level of difficulty would change if a person was standing, sitting or lying down on a bed. Because all those positions would have a fairly dramatic impact on the blood spatter on the wall and ceiling, imo. It would probably have an impact where her hand and the gun ended up as well. It would also have an impact on the trajectory of bone fragments, whether they remained under her head, or several inches away from her.