NY - UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Midtown. #12 *Arrest*
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NE NE - Chance Englebert, 25, Gering, 6 July 2019 (new father) #2
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Day 6 (or 5 depending) of Luigi Mangione Suppression Hearing. Stay here via @LAmag for live coverage.
Mangiones just walked in and sat at the defense table in a navy blue suit and the pink and white checkered shirt. Yesterday, he did a first pump for the photographers. From what I can see, he's speaking to his lawyers and looking at his notes for the cameras.
Both sides just left the bench regarding the scheduling of witnesses. State just called Patrolman Stephen Fox of Altoona PD.
Officer Fox speaks loudly and clearly, and told Seidemann that it's "good to be here." He was in the military until being honorably discharged in 2016, and began working for Altoona PD in 2019. Fox said he had zero police training before being trained at Altoona.
Fox is on the drug-task force and works in the K9 unit as well (K9 Blue). He was working alone on December 9, 2024.
Fox said he heard the 911 call dispatched, and heard Detweiler respond to it.
"Did you hear if there were trying to establish the identity at the McDonald's?"
Yes, I heard the name Mark Rosario, and heard they weren't getting a response.
"Who wasn't getting a response?"
The 911 Dispatch.
Fox confirms he then headed over to the McDonald's. He also confirms he knew about the killing of Brian Thompson via Fox News, and heard about it maybe a dozen times.
"What did you know about the killing?"
Fox: I know it was a brazen act of cowardess.. (Mangione shook his head at the table).
He goes on to describe more details of the crime, including the bullets and what he knew about Brian Thompson (publicly available info).
Fox is looking at the NYPD Crime Stoppers photos of the suspect, pointing out which ones he has seen, and the ones he hasn't. He has seen a majority of the photos.
KA: Objection your honor. We've established the witness watched Fox News. Do we have to keep going through this?
Seidemann referred to Brian Thompson's killing as an execution twice, and KA objected again. Carro said again, it has no effect on him as it's a hearing. We're about to watch Fox's BWC starting at 9:45AM.
Fox is identifying the 4 officers circling Mangione at the McDonald's. He pointed out the black backpack a few feet away.
Mangiones just walked in and sat at the defense table in a navy blue suit and the pink and white checkered shirt. Yesterday, he did a first pump for the photographers. From what I can see, he's speaking to his lawyers and looking at his notes for the cameras.
Both sides just left the bench regarding the scheduling of witnesses. State just called Patrolman Stephen Fox of Altoona PD.
Officer Fox speaks loudly and clearly, and told Seidemann that it's "good to be here." He was in the military until being honorably discharged in 2016, and began working for Altoona PD in 2019. Fox said he had zero police training before being trained at Altoona.
Fox is on the drug-task force and works in the K9 unit as well (K9 Blue). He was working alone on December 9, 2024.
Fox said he heard the 911 call dispatched, and heard Detweiler respond to it.
"Did you hear if there were trying to establish the identity at the McDonald's?"
Yes, I heard the name Mark Rosario, and heard they weren't getting a response.
"Who wasn't getting a response?"
The 911 Dispatch.
Fox confirms he then headed over to the McDonald's. He also confirms he knew about the killing of Brian Thompson via Fox News, and heard about it maybe a dozen times.
"What did you know about the killing?"
Fox: I know it was a brazen act of cowardess.. (Mangione shook his head at the table).
He goes on to describe more details of the crime, including the bullets and what he knew about Brian Thompson (publicly available info).
Fox is looking at the NYPD Crime Stoppers photos of the suspect, pointing out which ones he has seen, and the ones he hasn't. He has seen a majority of the photos.
KA: Objection your honor. We've established the witness watched Fox News. Do we have to keep going through this?
Seidemann referred to Brian Thompson's killing as an execution twice, and KA objected again. Carro said again, it has no effect on him as it's a hearing. We're about to watch Fox's BWC starting at 9:45AM.
Fox is identifying the 4 officers circling Mangione at the McDonald's. He pointed out the black backpack a few feet away.
@conlin_lauren
At 9:46AM, Fox is seen going outside with Detweiler, and mutes his body-cam. He tells the state that he does this for "administrative conversation" that could pertain to strategy. Fox says they discussed Detweiler's viewpoint that the "man sitting at the defense table today" was the NY CEO Shooter.
We paused at 9:47AM, when Fox is heard asking Mangione on camera, "Why'd you lie about your ID?"Seidemann asks Fox if Mangione was told he'd be arrested if lied again, or if was arrested when he was warned.
Fox says Mangione was told he would be arrested if he lied again.
We then hear Fox ask, "Do you have a fake ID?" Mangione looks down and shakes head on the BWC.
It's 9:50AM, and Fox is doing a pat-down on Mangione. He explains he was uneasy because Mangione wasn't making eye contact, and also didn't know that he previously was frisked either. At this point, Fox says he thought he was dealing with the CEO shooter.
Fox was asked to identify Mangione by the state- he does. KA points out it's the second time the witness identified Mangione.
Fox says that Officer Burns (not heard on camera) tells Fox to "put him in detention." Detention means one would not be free to leave, even if one is not formally charged. He also confirmed he found a jar of peanut butter on Mangione, and Mangione told him about the knife he had in his possession.
9:51AM, Fox tells Blair County dispatch to "mark the time" the suspect is in detention.
Seidemann asks Fox about the knife Mangione had, and asks if it was capable of causing injury or death.
"Yes."
10:42 AM · Dec 9, 2025
At 9:46AM, Fox is seen going outside with Detweiler, and mutes his body-cam. He tells the state that he does this for "administrative conversation" that could pertain to strategy. Fox says they discussed Detweiler's viewpoint that the "man sitting at the defense table today" was the NY CEO Shooter.
We paused at 9:47AM, when Fox is heard asking Mangione on camera, "Why'd you lie about your ID?"Seidemann asks Fox if Mangione was told he'd be arrested if lied again, or if was arrested when he was warned.
Fox says Mangione was told he would be arrested if he lied again.
We then hear Fox ask, "Do you have a fake ID?" Mangione looks down and shakes head on the BWC.
It's 9:50AM, and Fox is doing a pat-down on Mangione. He explains he was uneasy because Mangione wasn't making eye contact, and also didn't know that he previously was frisked either. At this point, Fox says he thought he was dealing with the CEO shooter.
Fox was asked to identify Mangione by the state- he does. KA points out it's the second time the witness identified Mangione.
Fox says that Officer Burns (not heard on camera) tells Fox to "put him in detention." Detention means one would not be free to leave, even if one is not formally charged. He also confirmed he found a jar of peanut butter on Mangione, and Mangione told him about the knife he had in his possession.
9:51AM, Fox tells Blair County dispatch to "mark the time" the suspect is in detention.
Seidemann asks Fox about the knife Mangione had, and asks if it was capable of causing injury or death.
"Yes."
10:42 AM · Dec 9, 2025
@conlin_lauren
We're watching BWC from Fox's camera angle. Mangoine is being mirandized, and it's prior to the frisk, at 9:48AM. Fox confirms that Mangione had already made the admission that the ID was fake, as well (a charge against him in PA). The Christmas music in the background of the McDonald's...
10:47 AM · Dec 9, 2025
We're watching BWC from Fox's camera angle. Mangoine is being mirandized, and it's prior to the frisk, at 9:48AM. Fox confirms that Mangione had already made the admission that the ID was fake, as well (a charge against him in PA). The Christmas music in the background of the McDonald's...
10:47 AM · Dec 9, 2025
Luigi is taking notes at the defense table as we rewatch him being mirandized.
Fox confirms that when they finally took Mangione's real name down, they mispelled it, so had to ask for the spelling again. It's 9:53AM.
BWC shows Mangione standing against the wall at 9:54AM, cuffed at the McDonald's, and confims that the backpack is 6 ft away from Mangione.
Seidemann asks if his feet are cuffed - No. Did he choose to remain standing -Yes."Is he capable of kicking? "
Yes.
"Is he capable of shoving?"
Yes.
It's 9:54AM, and Detweiler and Fox are now outside. Fox said he also knew that it was NY Shooter, because the NY shooter checked into a hostel with a fake ID.
At 9:56AM, Fox is back in his patrol car with his K9, and was attempting to locate a picture of Mangione, but did not succeed. He's heard on a call, saying " How do I look this sh*t up?"
Fox was using an official line or phone of some sort to make the call to the 911 dispatch, and offers his personal line for them to send a photo. It doesn't work out- he goes back into the McDonald's and explains that the photo will go to another Officer's phone. It's now 9:58AM, and Mangione is about to be escorted out.
Seidemann asks about the search, and Fox says the search as to happen before suspect gets in the car. Wasser is seen in the back about to start.
We hear Fox ask if "there is anything in that bag they need to know about?" Mangione invokes his rights.
Fox says he believed there was something in that bag that could harm human life, and he wanted to protect the patrons of McDonald's and his fellow police officers. He also knew the Thompson weapon had not been recovered. Fox also said he had a suspicion about an explosive device in the bag. He previously worked a 2021 case with an explosive device in a backpack (they found a live grenade). Fox said now this is always in the back of his mind when he's searching etc.
(Opinion, he's the most well-spoken and confident Officer we've heard from thus far).
Seidemann asks Fox if it matters per his ability to search a bag if it's a non-violent crime or the execution of a CEO?"No, it doesn't matter."KA Objected, but was overruled.
Seidemann was told to move on by Carro (right as KA was objecting) after asking Fox again, if he feared for his life or safety when searching the bag.
We're shown what Fox labels a "faraday" bag again in the backpack as they search. Seidemann asks if it's a water-proof bag or a farday bag. Fox answers faraday, and is asked to describe what it does- which he explains in part that it "blocks signals."
Holly-Jolly Christmas is playing loudly at the McDonald's on BWC as they search the bag.
Fox finds what he's calling on camera, "lap-top chips."We hear him say on camera, "It's f*cking him." Seidemann says excuse my french, and repeats what he says- Was that you? Yes.
We hear Miller in the background say, "don't put that there," referring to a piece of evidence Wasser was about to place on the table. Fox says that was to not cross-contaminate.
Fox makes a joke after Wasser says she wants to look for explosives, and Fox is heard making a joke about not blowing up his K9 Blue, just him. Seidemann asks if him making a joke means he's not concerned for his safety anymore, he answers no. He explains his jokes are a "coping mechanism from Afghanistan." Seidemann wants him to elaborate.
KA Objects and it's sustained.
It's 10:02AM, and Fox is overheard saying that "he thinks NYPD has a name." He explains he thinks he read this in a news article but is unsure of it's accuracy.
We're frozen on a frame of the Sheetz hoagie, bread in a plastic bag, a CVS bag full of medical masks, and Mangione's ID. Fox identifies what they are and the BWC continues to play. Mangione has already left the McDonald's.
We're now back to watching Fox's BWC angle of the search at 9:58AM.
Fox confirms that when they finally took Mangione's real name down, they mispelled it, so had to ask for the spelling again. It's 9:53AM.
BWC shows Mangione standing against the wall at 9:54AM, cuffed at the McDonald's, and confims that the backpack is 6 ft away from Mangione.
Seidemann asks if his feet are cuffed - No. Did he choose to remain standing -Yes."Is he capable of kicking? "
Yes.
"Is he capable of shoving?"
Yes.
It's 9:54AM, and Detweiler and Fox are now outside. Fox said he also knew that it was NY Shooter, because the NY shooter checked into a hostel with a fake ID.
At 9:56AM, Fox is back in his patrol car with his K9, and was attempting to locate a picture of Mangione, but did not succeed. He's heard on a call, saying " How do I look this sh*t up?"
Fox was using an official line or phone of some sort to make the call to the 911 dispatch, and offers his personal line for them to send a photo. It doesn't work out- he goes back into the McDonald's and explains that the photo will go to another Officer's phone. It's now 9:58AM, and Mangione is about to be escorted out.
Seidemann asks about the search, and Fox says the search as to happen before suspect gets in the car. Wasser is seen in the back about to start.
We hear Fox ask if "there is anything in that bag they need to know about?" Mangione invokes his rights.
Fox says he believed there was something in that bag that could harm human life, and he wanted to protect the patrons of McDonald's and his fellow police officers. He also knew the Thompson weapon had not been recovered. Fox also said he had a suspicion about an explosive device in the bag. He previously worked a 2021 case with an explosive device in a backpack (they found a live grenade). Fox said now this is always in the back of his mind when he's searching etc.
(Opinion, he's the most well-spoken and confident Officer we've heard from thus far).
Seidemann asks Fox if it matters per his ability to search a bag if it's a non-violent crime or the execution of a CEO?"No, it doesn't matter."KA Objected, but was overruled.
Seidemann was told to move on by Carro (right as KA was objecting) after asking Fox again, if he feared for his life or safety when searching the bag.
We're shown what Fox labels a "faraday" bag again in the backpack as they search. Seidemann asks if it's a water-proof bag or a farday bag. Fox answers faraday, and is asked to describe what it does- which he explains in part that it "blocks signals."
Holly-Jolly Christmas is playing loudly at the McDonald's on BWC as they search the bag.
Fox finds what he's calling on camera, "lap-top chips."We hear him say on camera, "It's f*cking him." Seidemann says excuse my french, and repeats what he says- Was that you? Yes.
We hear Miller in the background say, "don't put that there," referring to a piece of evidence Wasser was about to place on the table. Fox says that was to not cross-contaminate.
Fox makes a joke after Wasser says she wants to look for explosives, and Fox is heard making a joke about not blowing up his K9 Blue, just him. Seidemann asks if him making a joke means he's not concerned for his safety anymore, he answers no. He explains his jokes are a "coping mechanism from Afghanistan." Seidemann wants him to elaborate.
KA Objects and it's sustained.
It's 10:02AM, and Fox is overheard saying that "he thinks NYPD has a name." He explains he thinks he read this in a news article but is unsure of it's accuracy.
We're frozen on a frame of the Sheetz hoagie, bread in a plastic bag, a CVS bag full of medical masks, and Mangione's ID. Fox identifies what they are and the BWC continues to play. Mangione has already left the McDonald's.
We're now back to watching Fox's BWC angle of the search at 9:58AM.
Fox is recalling the convo between he and Trent not on camera: Trent is telling Wasser to take the bag with them and search back at the station, and Wasser brings up a possible bomb (now can be heard on camera).
Fox says he'd rather find it there, than find it at the station (knowing they would have transported an explosive to the station). They bring up yesterday's "Officer Moser" incident (the supervising individual that allowed pipe bombs be transported during an investigation).
10:01AM, an officer is overheard instructing someone to speak to the McDonald's manager who called 911. Wasser is pulling the mag out, showing it to Fox. Seidemann confirms that none of the higher up's mentioned stopping and needing a warrant.
10:04AM, Fox is getting into his patrol car with the evidence, and de-activates his BWC. Seidemann has him confirm that this is standard police policy, unless they are transporting a prisoner. Fox also clarifies the patrol car camera is activated automatically when the sirens and lights are on (he did not do that), or they can manually activate it for prisoner transport.
Fox confirms that it probably took about 11 seconds to transfer the bag to Wasser when he was on his way back to the station, and was dispatched back to the McDonald's, and they both had to pull over.He said nothing transpired except the evidence hand off.
Fox explains that he was present for Mangione's arraignment, and is asked about the media presence in court. He said it was about half of the size of press in court today.
Fox escorted Mangione outside after the arraignment, and said Mangione screamed at the media: "All these people here for a mass murderer, WHY????"
Fox said that while walking after the arraigment, he realized he was going too fast as Mangione stumbled a bit as he was in shackles. Fox apologized and said he forgot he was shackles, and Mangione replied, "It's OK, I'll have to get used to it."
Evidence photos are now being shown on the screen that I hadn't seen before- there appears to be some sort of larger hard drive, but I didn't catch exactly what it was. Seidemann then asks Fox if he has any connection to the NYPD prior to this case- he does not.No further questions, 5 minute break before cross.
Seidemann says he has two more questions, and asks about Mangione's statement outside of his arraignment, clarifying that he did indeed say "MASS" murderer (I didn't hear any confusion, though?)
Cross begins with Karen Agnifilo... she confirms that Fox was responding to a call, not because of someone "staying too long as the McDonald's,"...
No.
"Not because of someone using a fake ID?"
I responded when they couldn't get a match on the ID.
"You responded when Detweiler radio'd that he thought he'd caught the CEO Shooter?
He didn't radio anyone, he was talking to dispatch.
"But you responded because you thought it was the NY Shooter?"
KA confirms that Fox was also not assigned to the zone or the McDonald's.
Fox explains that he was in a general assignment type of unit that "floats."
KA asks if his K9 detects firearms or bombs?
No.
Edit: **Correction: Mangione said, WILD. Not Why."All these people here for a mass murderer, WILD."
12:53 PM · Dec 9, 2025
Fox says he'd rather find it there, than find it at the station (knowing they would have transported an explosive to the station). They bring up yesterday's "Officer Moser" incident (the supervising individual that allowed pipe bombs be transported during an investigation).
10:01AM, an officer is overheard instructing someone to speak to the McDonald's manager who called 911. Wasser is pulling the mag out, showing it to Fox. Seidemann confirms that none of the higher up's mentioned stopping and needing a warrant.
10:04AM, Fox is getting into his patrol car with the evidence, and de-activates his BWC. Seidemann has him confirm that this is standard police policy, unless they are transporting a prisoner. Fox also clarifies the patrol car camera is activated automatically when the sirens and lights are on (he did not do that), or they can manually activate it for prisoner transport.
Fox confirms that it probably took about 11 seconds to transfer the bag to Wasser when he was on his way back to the station, and was dispatched back to the McDonald's, and they both had to pull over.He said nothing transpired except the evidence hand off.
Fox explains that he was present for Mangione's arraignment, and is asked about the media presence in court. He said it was about half of the size of press in court today.
Fox escorted Mangione outside after the arraignment, and said Mangione screamed at the media: "All these people here for a mass murderer, WHY????"
Fox said that while walking after the arraigment, he realized he was going too fast as Mangione stumbled a bit as he was in shackles. Fox apologized and said he forgot he was shackles, and Mangione replied, "It's OK, I'll have to get used to it."
Evidence photos are now being shown on the screen that I hadn't seen before- there appears to be some sort of larger hard drive, but I didn't catch exactly what it was. Seidemann then asks Fox if he has any connection to the NYPD prior to this case- he does not.No further questions, 5 minute break before cross.
Seidemann says he has two more questions, and asks about Mangione's statement outside of his arraignment, clarifying that he did indeed say "MASS" murderer (I didn't hear any confusion, though?)
Cross begins with Karen Agnifilo... she confirms that Fox was responding to a call, not because of someone "staying too long as the McDonald's,"...
No.
"Not because of someone using a fake ID?"
I responded when they couldn't get a match on the ID.
"You responded when Detweiler radio'd that he thought he'd caught the CEO Shooter?
He didn't radio anyone, he was talking to dispatch.
"But you responded because you thought it was the NY Shooter?"
KA confirms that Fox was also not assigned to the zone or the McDonald's.
Fox explains that he was in a general assignment type of unit that "floats."
KA asks if his K9 detects firearms or bombs?
No.
Edit: **Correction: Mangione said, WILD. Not Why."All these people here for a mass murderer, WILD."
12:53 PM · Dec 9, 2025
Last edited:
KA: Did your K9 have the scent of the NYC shooter"??
Fox: No...
KA: But you went anyway... you wanted to catch the NYC shooter.
Objection,
KA: How many times did you meet with prosecutors to prepare for your testimony? 5 or 6?
Fox: Probably.
KA: Have you met with federal prosectors or the FBI?
Fox: No.
KA asks if he watches Fox News more than 30 minutes per day.
Fox (the Officer) says that he only watched Fox occasionally because it was the only station that seemed to care about this case and were not justifying Mangione's actions.
KA is asking about the strategy discussion between Detweiler and Fox outside, when they turned their audio off at 9:45AM. KA asks him to explain what the spoke about. Fox says that Detweiler explained he had seen Mangione's face everyday on Fox News, and he was sure it was him. Fox says he wasn't sure yet, and said let's go back inside and "figure it out."
Fox answers questions, "Yes and No Ma'am."
It's 9:45AM, and Fox is identifying 4 officers surrounding Mangione while he is seated at the table inside.
At 9:47AM, BWC shows officers getting Mangione's real name.
KA confirms that Mangione DID give the correct spelling, but it was written down incorrectly by officers.
He confirms that's correct.
We then hear Fox (again) ask, "Why he gave the wrong name?"
KA: You were asking questions to get incriminating answers from him?
OBJECTION, overruled.
Fox: No...
KA: But you went anyway... you wanted to catch the NYC shooter.
Objection,
KA: How many times did you meet with prosecutors to prepare for your testimony? 5 or 6?
Fox: Probably.
KA: Have you met with federal prosectors or the FBI?
Fox: No.
KA asks if he watches Fox News more than 30 minutes per day.
Fox (the Officer) says that he only watched Fox occasionally because it was the only station that seemed to care about this case and were not justifying Mangione's actions.
KA is asking about the strategy discussion between Detweiler and Fox outside, when they turned their audio off at 9:45AM. KA asks him to explain what the spoke about. Fox says that Detweiler explained he had seen Mangione's face everyday on Fox News, and he was sure it was him. Fox says he wasn't sure yet, and said let's go back inside and "figure it out."
Fox answers questions, "Yes and No Ma'am."
It's 9:45AM, and Fox is identifying 4 officers surrounding Mangione while he is seated at the table inside.
At 9:47AM, BWC shows officers getting Mangione's real name.
KA confirms that Mangione DID give the correct spelling, but it was written down incorrectly by officers.
He confirms that's correct.
We then hear Fox (again) ask, "Why he gave the wrong name?"
KA: You were asking questions to get incriminating answers from him?
OBJECTION, overruled.
KA asks if Fox knows that Miranda warnings are for protecting self-incrimination...to which he says Yes.
KA confirms that the officer who told him to mirandize Mangione, wasn't his superior officer. He confirms it was not.
We listen to Mangione being mirandized again, 9:49AM.
KA: Do you always speak that fast when reading miranda warnings?
Fox: Yes
KA: Would it surprise you to know you said 98 words in 15 seconds??
KA points out that Fox was supposed to end the warnings with, "With all this in mind, do you wish to speak with us?"
Fox concedes that he did not say this, instead says "You're not in custody."
Fox is now identifying all of the Officers and rankings present at the McDonald's, noting they all had firearms (some concealed, some not). He's identifying the placement of officers around Mangione.
KA: So for him to get out that side door, he would have to get past a table chairs and several police officers?
Objection,
Sustained.
Fox: He was not free to leave, due to the false ID he provided.
KA: So officers were positioned in front of him and beside of him, because he's not free to leave?
Fox: Yes.
We just watched Mangione answer Fox's question about about giving a fake name, to which he appeared to shake his head, but remain silent.
Fox said he didn't see that as a no, but more of a "cheek flare."
KA asks about Fox not knowing what a head shake means???
KA confirms that after Mangione invoked his right to remain silent, he was cuffed. Fox confirms. KA says that seconds later, he was frisked. Fox also confirms.
KA: Did he say something that made you frisk him further?"
Fox: It was because of the knife, and he previously didn't tell us.
KA: But then he told you about the knife?
Fox: Yes.
KA: But then that information made you cuff him?
Fox: Yes
KA: So the only thing that happened between these two events, was that he chose to remain silent, and told you he had a knife?
Break for lunch.
KA confirms that the officer who told him to mirandize Mangione, wasn't his superior officer. He confirms it was not.
We listen to Mangione being mirandized again, 9:49AM.
KA: Do you always speak that fast when reading miranda warnings?
Fox: Yes
KA: Would it surprise you to know you said 98 words in 15 seconds??
KA points out that Fox was supposed to end the warnings with, "With all this in mind, do you wish to speak with us?"
Fox concedes that he did not say this, instead says "You're not in custody."
Fox is now identifying all of the Officers and rankings present at the McDonald's, noting they all had firearms (some concealed, some not). He's identifying the placement of officers around Mangione.
KA: So for him to get out that side door, he would have to get past a table chairs and several police officers?
Objection,
Sustained.
Fox: He was not free to leave, due to the false ID he provided.
KA: So officers were positioned in front of him and beside of him, because he's not free to leave?
Fox: Yes.
We just watched Mangione answer Fox's question about about giving a fake name, to which he appeared to shake his head, but remain silent.
Fox said he didn't see that as a no, but more of a "cheek flare."
KA asks about Fox not knowing what a head shake means???
KA confirms that after Mangione invoked his right to remain silent, he was cuffed. Fox confirms. KA says that seconds later, he was frisked. Fox also confirms.
KA: Did he say something that made you frisk him further?"
Fox: It was because of the knife, and he previously didn't tell us.
KA: But then he told you about the knife?
Fox: Yes.
KA: But then that information made you cuff him?
Fox: Yes
KA: So the only thing that happened between these two events, was that he chose to remain silent, and told you he had a knife?
Break for lunch.
Posted by EU 17 hours ago
@Uebey
Couple of notes about public access re: these exhibits.
1. Jurors are specifically instructed, over and over again, that they are only to consider evidence they heard at trial — NOTHING they read/learn about prior can inform their decision.
2. Jurors are also meticulously screened during the selection process about their interest/biases in the case. If they lie, it’s contempt of court.If someone is intently following this case’s pretrial proceedings, they probably won’t be picked as a juror when the time comes.
3. To my knowledge, the defense has only moved to seal the bodycam footage, which has not been released to the press.
4. Court proceedings are supposed to be public. But because of the limited space in Carro’s courtroom, only a few dozen people can see what goes down in there.Hence the 1st Amendment issue — knowing what happens in court can’t be limited to the few lucky enough to get inside.
Couple of notes about public access re: these exhibits.
1. Jurors are specifically instructed, over and over again, that they are only to consider evidence they heard at trial — NOTHING they read/learn about prior can inform their decision.
2. Jurors are also meticulously screened during the selection process about their interest/biases in the case. If they lie, it’s contempt of court.If someone is intently following this case’s pretrial proceedings, they probably won’t be picked as a juror when the time comes.
3. To my knowledge, the defense has only moved to seal the bodycam footage, which has not been released to the press.
4. Court proceedings are supposed to be public. But because of the limited space in Carro’s courtroom, only a few dozen people can see what goes down in there.Hence the 1st Amendment issue — knowing what happens in court can’t be limited to the few lucky enough to get inside.
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Can someone clarify this for me please?
I understand this a hearing about admissability and not the trial, but my question is about the backpack.
IMO LE didn't at first think it was Google to be him, or they would have had a much different approach. Once they realized it was him (based IMO on his appearance and the obviously and ridiculous false ID), LE had a new duty of care. To determine the backpack was safe.
Nothing viewed in the backpack caused them to arrest or detain him IMO. That was already in progress.
In time, I imagine that warrants were signed giving LE authority to process the backpack, at which time the connents become legitimate evidence ftom which to build a case, no?
Viewing the contents of the bag for exigebt circumstances (namely to make sure it did not contain an immediate threat) overrides any right or expectation of privacy that the detained individual might have, no?
So far, I'm not moved by this hearing.
JMO
I understand this a hearing about admissability and not the trial, but my question is about the backpack.
IMO LE didn't at first think it was Google to be him, or they would have had a much different approach. Once they realized it was him (based IMO on his appearance and the obviously and ridiculous false ID), LE had a new duty of care. To determine the backpack was safe.
Nothing viewed in the backpack caused them to arrest or detain him IMO. That was already in progress.
In time, I imagine that warrants were signed giving LE authority to process the backpack, at which time the connents become legitimate evidence ftom which to build a case, no?
Viewing the contents of the bag for exigebt circumstances (namely to make sure it did not contain an immediate threat) overrides any right or expectation of privacy that the detained individual might have, no?
So far, I'm not moved by this hearing.
JMO
Im going with mom. Mom's know best. jmo
I’m told (by my mom) that the value of the foreign bills in Luigi’s wallet add up to $15.76.
Here’s an example of the NYPD label that the defense is using to suggest cooperation between New York and Altoona cops:
I’m told (by my mom) that the value of the foreign bills in Luigi’s wallet add up to $15.76.
Here’s an example of the NYPD label that the defense is using to suggest cooperation between New York and Altoona cops:
@conlin_lauren
**Correction: Mangione said, WILD. Not Why."All these people here for a mass murderer, WILD."
12:53 PM · Dec 9, 2025
**Correction: Mangione said, WILD. Not Why."All these people here for a mass murderer, WILD."
12:53 PM · Dec 9, 2025
If I misspeak about something I hear in court, I will quickly correct or edit the tweet or quote. I am live-tweeting, filing stories, and reporting via video. I report both sides equally, but I am human and may occasionally mishear something.
Additionally, I am reporting what is said IN COURT, and relaying who said it. Not what we know from prior releases of information.
Lastly, we were told today by a witness that Mangione yelled something to the press- I tweeted a photo of him looking like he was yelling for context. That’s it- nothing more behind it.
Additionally, I am reporting what is said IN COURT, and relaying who said it. Not what we know from prior releases of information.
Lastly, we were told today by a witness that Mangione yelled something to the press- I tweeted a photo of him looking like he was yelling for context. That’s it- nothing more behind it.
FOR CONTEXT: This is not the day to which Fox was referring when he testified that Mangione yelled at the press. I was only searching for a photo of him yelling for contextual reference. I’m catching some strays!
1:31 PM · Dec 9, 2025
1:31 PM · Dec 9, 2025
@conlin_lauren
Luigi Mangione Day 6 (Day 5 of testimony) Afternoon: Patrolman Fox back on the stand to continue his cross-examination by Karen Agnifilo.
2:27 PM · Dec 9, 2025
Luigi Mangione Day 6 (Day 5 of testimony) Afternoon: Patrolman Fox back on the stand to continue his cross-examination by Karen Agnifilo.
2:27 PM · Dec 9, 2025
KA is going through the order of events prior and after the Miranda Warnings were read.
Fox now confirms that Mangione did move his head in a "side to side" direction when asked the question of why he used a fake ID.
KA: You told him he could remain silent correct? Then you ask him if he has any weapons?
Fox: Yes Ma'am
KA: So at 9:52AM, you knew he had a knife.
Fox: Yes Ma'am
KA: But you allowed him to keep his hands on the wall, you didn't cuff him, correct?
Fox: It was moments- I put my gloves on to get the knife, and then I looked at Burns, and he shook his head to place him in handcuffs. Fox says Mangione asked him if he could take his jacket off (before he got the knife) and Fox says he told him to hang on and place his hands on the wall.
KA says we should watch the BWC footage of this sequence (we are).
KA: So when you put him in handcuffs, you had the same information that you had before putting the cuffs on him?
Fox: Yes Ma'am
KA confirms it's not illegal to carry a knife, and Mangione told Fox where to find it, and states that "he was still detained (or arrested?) even though carrying a knife is not illegal."
Body worn camera (BWC) refers to cameras used by police to record their interactions and activities during events/arrests.
Fox now confirms that Mangione did move his head in a "side to side" direction when asked the question of why he used a fake ID.
KA: You told him he could remain silent correct? Then you ask him if he has any weapons?
Fox: Yes Ma'am
KA: So at 9:52AM, you knew he had a knife.
Fox: Yes Ma'am
KA: But you allowed him to keep his hands on the wall, you didn't cuff him, correct?
Fox: It was moments- I put my gloves on to get the knife, and then I looked at Burns, and he shook his head to place him in handcuffs. Fox says Mangione asked him if he could take his jacket off (before he got the knife) and Fox says he told him to hang on and place his hands on the wall.
KA says we should watch the BWC footage of this sequence (we are).
KA: So when you put him in handcuffs, you had the same information that you had before putting the cuffs on him?
Fox: Yes Ma'am
KA confirms it's not illegal to carry a knife, and Mangione told Fox where to find it, and states that "he was still detained (or arrested?) even though carrying a knife is not illegal."
Body worn camera (BWC) refers to cameras used by police to record their interactions and activities during events/arrests.
TalkToTofana
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Respectfully, my thoughts...
Whomever murdered Brian Thomson should have not killed him; I do not condone murder. However, the policies of United Healthcare have led to deaths and suffering on a mass scale, infinitely greater than one life taken. We can recognize that someone is a victim of a crime without rewriting their history or pretending they have not contributed to harm.
There are people that support LM because they believe he committed this horrific crime, but I get the impression that the majority of the people supporting LM do not believe he is the one that killed Brian Thompson. My stance is regardless of if he is the murderer, the state must prove that he is beyond a reasonable doubt. If they cannot meet that burden then he should not be convicted. If LEO do not mirandize LM when they were supposed to that is very problematic.
JMO
KA points out that the table the McDonald's was 13 feet. She says that Mangione remained standing, and asked if he was cooporative- Fox says yes. We're at 9:58AM on the BWC.
KA says Fox could have moved Mangione away from the backpack if he wanted to; Fox said he wasn't handling Mangione in that moment.
KA asks if Fox could have moved the backpack further away from Mangione while searching if he wanted to.
He said he felt that they had the back area secured enough (paraphrase)
KA: Officer Fox, wouldn't it have been better if you thought there was an explosive, to search it in the parking lot?
Fox: Uhh no ma'am.
KA: Weren't there civilians in there? People? Employees?
Fox: Yes Ma'am.
KA: But that's why you don't take in the car right? You don't want it to explode in there? You don't want to blow up, Blue right?
Fox explained he did not want to create mass panic in the McDonald's before knowing if there was a bomb or not.
KA asks Fox about the placement of the magazine on the table (before being stopped) because of DNA contamination.
Fox: Did you put anything on the table?
Fox lists evidence like laptop, hoagie, bread etc.
KA: So, you just testified that you put many things on the table..
Fox: Yes ma'am
KA: Prior to putting these on the table, did you put anything on the table to avoid contamination from the people eating there prior?
Fox: No ma'am
KA asks Fox about writing something in his incident report later about Mangione smiling at him. He confirms that yes, Mangione did smile at him.
KA asks about why he was arrested on a false ID, if he told the truth. Fox says he was arrested on a forgery charge. KA points out that Mangione essentially apologized when being asked about giving a false ID, and Fox agreed. She points out that Mangione did not kick or fight back again, and he agreed.
KA is asking about the "faraday" or "waterproof" bag, commenting that there were other items in the bag, some wet and some dry. She mentions a passport found (he confirms) and comments that passports don't require a signal.
KA: You're looking at a document up there? What is that?
Fox: It's my incident report
KA: You're looking at that to help refresh you?
Fox: I haven't looked at it until now
---------
KA is asking why he did not mention a bomb threat in his incident report.
Fox said the threat of a bomb is always there, always in the back of his mind, but that's standard for incident to arrest searches.
KA asks if Fox is aware of bomb/explosive protocol, and he does: he explains.
KA comments that when searching for a bomb, one should be careful and not move things around etc, and he and Wasser were not?
Fox says he believes they were being careful.
KA says Fox could have moved Mangione away from the backpack if he wanted to; Fox said he wasn't handling Mangione in that moment.
KA asks if Fox could have moved the backpack further away from Mangione while searching if he wanted to.
He said he felt that they had the back area secured enough (paraphrase)
KA: Officer Fox, wouldn't it have been better if you thought there was an explosive, to search it in the parking lot?
Fox: Uhh no ma'am.
KA: Weren't there civilians in there? People? Employees?
Fox: Yes Ma'am.
KA: But that's why you don't take in the car right? You don't want it to explode in there? You don't want to blow up, Blue right?
Fox explained he did not want to create mass panic in the McDonald's before knowing if there was a bomb or not.
KA asks Fox about the placement of the magazine on the table (before being stopped) because of DNA contamination.
Fox: Did you put anything on the table?
Fox lists evidence like laptop, hoagie, bread etc.
KA: So, you just testified that you put many things on the table..
Fox: Yes ma'am
KA: Prior to putting these on the table, did you put anything on the table to avoid contamination from the people eating there prior?
Fox: No ma'am
KA asks Fox about writing something in his incident report later about Mangione smiling at him. He confirms that yes, Mangione did smile at him.
KA asks about why he was arrested on a false ID, if he told the truth. Fox says he was arrested on a forgery charge. KA points out that Mangione essentially apologized when being asked about giving a false ID, and Fox agreed. She points out that Mangione did not kick or fight back again, and he agreed.
KA is asking about the "faraday" or "waterproof" bag, commenting that there were other items in the bag, some wet and some dry. She mentions a passport found (he confirms) and comments that passports don't require a signal.
KA: You're looking at a document up there? What is that?
Fox: It's my incident report
KA: You're looking at that to help refresh you?
Fox: I haven't looked at it until now
---------
KA is asking why he did not mention a bomb threat in his incident report.
Fox said the threat of a bomb is always there, always in the back of his mind, but that's standard for incident to arrest searches.
KA asks if Fox is aware of bomb/explosive protocol, and he does: he explains.
KA comments that when searching for a bomb, one should be careful and not move things around etc, and he and Wasser were not?
Fox says he believes they were being careful.
KA is asking Fox about search and seizure policy- she's citing case law, proving her point. Fox just cited case law back to her, proving his point. He's citing a case involving the name Guzman and a bag (sorry, that's all I could catch).
KA and Fox appear to be disputing the timeline of the bag search and the moving of the bag.
KA: Before he was arrested, Frye and Yager were standing between Mangione and the bag.
Fox: The bag got moved for safety when they determined they got false info from Mangione.
KA: The whole purpose was to move it for Officer safety? So he couldn't access it right?
KA: The search continued after he left McDonald's correct?
Fox: Correct (he then cites the Guzman case, where a bag was searched when the suspect was not in sight)
KA: Did you go to law school?
Fox: I have not, no.
KA asks about the silencer, and asks Fox if it's the shape of a pipe bomb (he says yes) and she says, well you missed that (during the explosive search), and he says, "Yes Ma'am."We're watching BWC from 10:02AM, from Fox's angle of the search.
A Partridge in a Pear tree is playing loudly on the BWC at the McDonald's.. Mangione is staring down at his notes but not writing anything, while sorting through some documents. His cup of water is empty now.
Judge Carro is cutting off Seidemann with his objections (at least two), and quickly tells the defense to "just move on."
Fox reiterates that Altoona did not need to worry about any NY case at the time of the search, as Mangione was arrested in their presence for a PA crime.
KA: But is it normal to disobey your supervisors? (she's referring to the Officer's voice in the background prior to the search mentioning a warrant)
Fox: They are not my supervisors
KA and Fox appear to be disputing the timeline of the bag search and the moving of the bag.
KA: Before he was arrested, Frye and Yager were standing between Mangione and the bag.
Fox: The bag got moved for safety when they determined they got false info from Mangione.
KA: The whole purpose was to move it for Officer safety? So he couldn't access it right?
KA: The search continued after he left McDonald's correct?
Fox: Correct (he then cites the Guzman case, where a bag was searched when the suspect was not in sight)
KA: Did you go to law school?
Fox: I have not, no.
KA asks about the silencer, and asks Fox if it's the shape of a pipe bomb (he says yes) and she says, well you missed that (during the explosive search), and he says, "Yes Ma'am."We're watching BWC from 10:02AM, from Fox's angle of the search.
A Partridge in a Pear tree is playing loudly on the BWC at the McDonald's.. Mangione is staring down at his notes but not writing anything, while sorting through some documents. His cup of water is empty now.
Judge Carro is cutting off Seidemann with his objections (at least two), and quickly tells the defense to "just move on."
Fox reiterates that Altoona did not need to worry about any NY case at the time of the search, as Mangione was arrested in their presence for a PA crime.
KA: But is it normal to disobey your supervisors? (she's referring to the Officer's voice in the background prior to the search mentioning a warrant)
Fox: They are not my supervisors
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