OK OK - Molly Miller, 17, & Colt Haynes, 21, Wilson, 7 Jul 2013 - #2

[McSpy]

Bringing forward a couple of strictly informational posts, for the record:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=221971&page=25



http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=221971&page=21

Those temps are scary. Molly mentioned she was very thirsty in one of her last calls. I can see why! There were houses in the area of Pike Rd, so there were opportunities to get help if she was desperate for water. The homes may have had outside faucets too. Yet, I doubt she even thought of the idea. I know I would have been desperate for water. I would have called 911 at that point. The discomfort would have bothered me. Finding water or a cold soft drink would have eventually been my main goal. I'd be like that prison escapee who turned himself in, because he couldn't take the heat. (actually he turned himself in, because it was brutally cold, but I can see any highly uncomfortable situation turn into desperation.)

JMO

 

[McSpy]

I noticed in the timeline for Nov. 5th one of Molly's relatives said LE was able to confirm that MM and CH were dead. I wonder what makes them think it is a certainty? What made them know for sure the couple was dead. Could they have a tipster, but now LE needs to prove the story with evidence? Thoughts?

 

[McSpy]

Any thoughts on the arson fires? Does LE usually show up at fires in that area? Could someone be trying to distract them?

 

[OkieGranny]

I noticed in the timeline for Nov. 5th one of Molly's relatives said LE was able to confirm that MM and CH were dead. I wonder what makes them think it is a certainty? What made them know for sure the couple was dead. Could they have a tipster, but now LE needs to prove the story with evidence? Thoughts?

I'm guessing LE has most of the story nailed down, but the missing piece is the location of the remains. Or perhaps the remains are in a condition that makes them unrecoverable. By fire, for instance. Which brings us to:

Any thoughts on the arson fires? Does LE usually show up at fires in that area? Could someone be trying to distract them?

As I said when posting the earlier version of the timeline, I'm including the arson or suspected arson fires because of the fire involved in this case, and because of the close proximity of many of these fires to the area where Con lives. I don't know if there's a connection. There may not be. That area definitely has a firebug, and maybe more than one. Really just including them on the timeline for now to see if there's any kind of timing or pattern that looks significant.

 

[OkieGranny]

So I've been thinking about something and, as things stand at the moment, I'm not at all sure if it's applicable here, but am writing it down just to get it off my mind.

Back when we hit a lull in this case, the remains of the Jamison family were found over on Panola Mountain in Latimer County. Basically a skull and a body bone each, and we spent some time on that thread discussing how thoroughly the area was or was not searched for additional bones, teeth, and possibly bullets or a weapon. It was only a two-day search, which left plenty of room for doubt.

Soon after, I watched one of those true crime programs on Discovery ID about the Pauline Devor case over in Arkansas, where the victim's body was burned. LE wound up inviting a team of archaeology students from the University of Arkansas to come to the site and see what they could find. The team did a grid search and screened the soil, and were able to find some bits of bone and dental crowns. At the time, I thought, wow! I wish we could get a team like that to search the Jamisons' location!

If, and that's a big IF, the bodies of Molly and/or Colt were disposed of in the infamous burning hole, which was sampled, dug out, and then filled back in, then I wish we could get an archaeology team to come in and search the hole. I mean, if some evidence of the remains is yet to be found and if that evidence would make a difference in convicting a killer, the idea might be worth looking into.

 

[Hatfield]

So I've been thinking about something and, at things stand at the moment, I'm not at all sure if it's applicable here, but am writing it down just to get it off my mind.

Back when we hit a lull in this case, the remains of the Jamison family were found over on Panola Mountain in Latimer County. Basically a skull and a body bone each, and we spent some time on that thread discussing how thoroughly the area was or was not searched for additional bones, teeth, and possibly bullets or a weapon. Only two days were spent on the search, which left plenty of room for doubt.

Soon after, I watched one of those true crime programs on Discovery ID about the Pauline Devor case over in Arkansas, where the victim's body was burned. LE wound up inviting a team of archaeology students from the University of Arkansas to come to the site and see what they could find. The team did a grid search and screened the soil, and were able to find some bits of bone and dental crowns. At the time, I thought, wow! I wish we could get a team like that to search the Jamisons' location!

If, and that's a big IF, the bodies of Molly and/or Colt were disposed of in the infamous burning hole, which was sampled, dug out, and then filled back in, then I wish we could get an archaeology team to come in and search the hole. I mean, if some evidence of the remains is yet to be found and if that evidence would make a difference in convicting a killer, the idea might be worth looking into.

I totally agree. It needs to happen and especially since we heard that the original search of the contents of that hole was done with a tin can. If there is anything that could still be found, I am sure it is still there. Because bone fragments and teeth and stuff like that takes years and years before it would erode.

The right people would probably be experienced with the proper tools like sifter screens.

 

[Hatfield]

Any thoughts on the arson fires? Does LE usually show up at fires in that area? Could someone be trying to distract them?

JMO
This is my theory on why there were so many grass/field fires around there. I also think that the burning hole could have been used for another nefarious purpose, and you make a good point that some specific fires may have been set to distract people on purpose. But for the majority of what was reported as grass/field fires before the car crash event, here is my theory on that.

It has been rumored that "meth cooking" was going on and from what very little I have learned online, it seems that real "cooking" with a heat source like a stove OR a fire is involved in the process.

I am sure there are multiple ways and multiple chemicals, but my understanding is you need a hot heat source like a stove or a fire to boil down certain chemicals. Generally speaking, they would mix ingredients and then boil them so that they can separate the wanted stuff from the unwanted stuff.

And here is the important part.....it is very dangerous because a lot of the times one of the liquids could be Acetone alcohol or some other flammable liquid. I am sure we have all heard in the news about Meth "explosions" or Meth "fires" burning people very badly. It seems it made the news all the time a few years back.

So, my theory, is meth cookers took to the outdoors to cook down their meth because it would help them prevent injury to themselves or their apartment or house if their contraptions caught fire.

And this is what I think explains all the fires in that general vicinity. Because I doubt any meth cookers carried with them the proper fire extinguishing equipment. And so when a fire broke out and they could not put it out, they ran. And that is why I think there were so many grass fires near there.

Back in high school days, i actually used Acetone alcohol once in my garage in an experiment and it spilled on a metal table and caught fire and you could not put it out. It burns with an almost invisible flame so you have to be very careful whenever dealing with that liquid. It is sometimes used to clean metal parts, but it is not recommended because it is like cleaning something with gasoline. Not very smart to do at all and they make all kinds of things now that can do the job the right way.

 

[Hatfield]

Any thoughts on the arson fires? Does LE usually show up at fires in that area? Could someone be trying to distract them?

My previous post was mainly about the grass/field fires and I didnt realize till now you were referring to the specific "arson" fires in the timeline that involve more than just grass fires.

Yes, that seems very odd and it does make you wonder if someone is trying to distract someone or burn other evidence of wrongdoings or something.

Or maybe there is a pyromaniac that just likes to burn things. Really strange there were so many non-grass fires too.

 

[TooCurious]

Those temps are scary. Molly mentioned she was very thirsty in one of her last calls. I can see why! There were houses in the area of Pike Rd, so there were opportunities to get help if she was desperate for water. The homes may have had outside faucets too. Yet, I doubt she even thought of the idea. I know I would have been desperate for water. I would have called 911 at that point. The discomfort would have bothered me. Finding water or a cold soft drink would have eventually been my main goal. I'd be like that prison escapee who turned himself in, because he couldn't take the heat. (actually he turned himself in, because it was brutally cold, but I can see any highly uncomfortable situation turn into desperation.)

JMO

At the time of their last phone calls, the temp was about 82. It did not reach the 90's until after 1 pm. It wasn't overly hot that morning, matter of fact it would have been pretty nice.

 

[TooCurious]

Just to throw this in there as a "ah hah"! One of those trailers that were burnt belonged to SF's ex. (The one that pledged 10k to the reward) Thought you guys would find that interesting. I believe he was one of the people that had things stolen from him and LE wouldn't investigate. After that it was burnt.

 

[maureen718]

Just to throw this in there as a "ah hah"! One of those trailers that were burnt belonged to SF's ex. (The one that pledged 10k to the reward) Thought you guys would find that interesting. I believe he was one of the people that had things stolen from him and LE wouldn't investigate. After that it was burnt.

This is the reason the $10,000 was offered toward the reward, imo.

So I've been thinking about something and, as things stand at the moment, I'm not at all sure if it's applicable here, but am writing it down just to get it off my mind.

Back when we hit a lull in this case, the remains of the Jamison family were found over on Panola Mountain in Latimer County. Basically a skull and a body bone each, and we spent some time on that thread discussing how thoroughly the area was or was not searched for additional bones, teeth, and possibly bullets or a weapon. It was only a two-day search, which left plenty of room for doubt.

Soon after, I watched one of those true crime programs on Discovery ID about the Pauline Devor case over in Arkansas, where the victim's body was burned. LE wound up inviting a team of archaeology students from the University of Arkansas to come to the site and see what they could find. The team did a grid search and screened the soil, and were able to find some bits of bone and dental crowns. At the time, I thought, wow! I wish we could get a team like that to search the Jamisons' location!

If, and that's a big IF, the bodies of Molly and/or Colt were disposed of in the infamous burning hole, which was sampled, dug out, and then filled back in, then I wish we could get an archaeology team to come in and search the hole. I mean, if some evidence of the remains is yet to be found and if that evidence would make a difference in convicting a killer, the idea might be worth looking into.

Brillant post Okiegranny!! I think if there is evidence in the hole it can be recovered, when they filled it I thought well at least whatever is in there is still there. Chemicals can burn very hot fires but even after cremation there is still material other than ash.

 

[OkieGranny]

Another case that's been on my mind lately is the discovery of the remains of Wendy Camp, her 6-year-old daughter Cynthia Britto, and her sister-in-law Lisa Kregear in Pawnee County. The three were buried under 8 feet of soil for over 20 years, until a tip finally led LE to their location.

There is a photo of their remains in situ, and there was no warning of what I was going to see when I first clicked on that link, so it was quite a shock. There's no blood or gore, but it's still hard to look at, so this is your *GRAPHIC* warning:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...73741828.202685403189106&type=1&stream_ref=10

Putting aside for the moment the terrible tragedy of these stolen lives, I am absolutely in awe of the careful and meticulous excavation work that was done here. It was so painstaking that you can clearly see that Wendy was thrown into the hole first, then Lisa, because her leg is across Wendy's foot, and then little Cynthia landed on Lisa's leg. All face down.

I looked through many news articles for an indication of who exactly was involved in excavating this hole, but couldn't find any agencies mentioned other than the OSBI and the ME's office.

But THIS. This is what I'd like to see done with the hole in Love County. This kind of care, this degree of thoroughness.

BTW, has anyone else noticed the tendency of Oklahomans to go missing in multiples? Colt and Molly, these three in Pawnee County, the Jamisons, the six occupants of two cars found in Foss Lake, Ashley Freeman and Lauria Bible, Fawn and Rozlin Abell. Is this a statistical anomaly, or does this happen everywhere and I'm just not as aware of it when it's not local?

 

[sloane7777]

no Okie . it seems to be multiples in OK quite often!!!!!

 

[Hatfield]

...Snipped for space.....

But THIS. This is what I'd like to see done with the hole in Love County. This kind of care, this degree of thoroughness.

BTW, has anyone else noticed the tendency of Oklahomans to go missing in multiples? Colt and Molly, these three in Pawnee County, the Jamisons, the six occupants of two cars found in Foss Lake, Ashley Freeman and Lauria Bible, Fawn and Rozlin Abell. Is this a statistical anomaly, or does this happen everywhere and I'm just not as aware of it when it's not local?

Even though these 2 girls were not missing long, I immediately thought of poor Taylor Placker and Skyla Whitaker who were murdered by a punk. He was in the news recently and I think his court case is becoming active for his prosecution.

 

[maureen718]

http://www.kten.com/story/24604579/a-carter-county-chase-ends-two-people-in-critical-condition
WOW, I'm getting the impression all these counties are really Hazzard County. I'm hoping Boss Hogg calls Starsky and Hutch soon to help with all these investigations

 

[maureen718]

Looking more into that article the 24 year old driver posted on his fb that he was 2 weeks clean on January 13th and that he thinks he finally found a winner, I don't think he was talking about the girl in the car with him since her fb looks like she is in love and it's not him. She is also friends with SF and was asked by SF if she wants to get together on Saturday after SF's 'visitation'. CaN, the girl in the crashed vehicle also has SOCB posts on her wall as well as a close up pic on grandpa Nipp's face. Her mother has posted on Operation find Molly site that her daughter was telling the driver to stop the car, I take that as good news because that means she is alert and talking! hopefully she will recover from her injuries quickly

 

[Hatfield]

http://www.kten.com/story/24604579/a-carter-county-chase-ends-two-people-in-critical-condition
WOW, I'm getting the impression all these counties are really Hazzard County. I'm hoping Boss Hogg calls Starsky and Hutch soon to help with all these investigations

Same last name as a POI in this case. Wonder if any relation. If so, then car chases seem to be the thing.

I do hope they recover as I hate to see anyone hurt and they must have been badly injured based on that car damage.

 

[maureen718]

Same last name as a POI in this case. Wonder if any relation. If so, then car chases seem to be the thing.

I do hope they recover as I hate to see anyone hurt and they must have been badly injured based on that car damage.

She is his cousin

 

[McSpy]

Another case that's been on my mind lately is the discovery of the remains of Wendy Camp, her 6-year-old daughter Cynthia Britto, and her sister-in-law Lisa Kregear in Pawnee County. The three were buried under 8 feet of soil for over 20 years, until a tip finally led LE to their location.

There is a photo of their remains in situ, and there was no warning of what I was going to see when I first clicked on that link, so it was quite a shock. There's no blood or gore, but it's still hard to look at, so this is your *GRAPHIC* warning:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=227785877345725&set=a.202689569855356.1073741828.202685403189106&type=1&stream_ref=10

Putting aside for the moment the terrible tragedy of these stolen lives, I am absolutely in awe of the careful and meticulous excavation work that was done here. It was so painstaking that you can clearly see that Wendy was thrown into the hole first, then Lisa, because her leg is across Wendy's foot, and then little Cynthia landed on Lisa's leg. All face down.

I looked through many news articles for an indication of who exactly was involved in excavating this hole, but couldn't find any agencies mentioned other than the OSBI and the ME's office.

But THIS. This is what I'd like to see done with the hole in Love County. This kind of care, this degree of thoroughness.

BTW, has anyone else noticed the tendency of Oklahomans to go missing in multiples? Colt and Molly, these three in Pawnee County, the Jamisons, the six occupants of two cars found in Foss Lake, Ashley Freeman and Lauria Bible, Fawn and Rozlin Abell. Is this a statistical anomaly, or does this happen everywhere and I'm just not as aware of it when it's not local?

Compared to other parts of the country, yes, I noticed there is a tendency for groups of people, couples, and families to be reported missing and turn up dead in Oklahoma and similar states. I think it is because many parts of Oklahoma are rural. Lots of land and far from towns/civilization. Fewer people means less chance to spot something awry or to discover remains. On the coasts it is a lot more crowded and there are more security cameras/web cams on freeways, banks, retail outlets, and homes to catch the perps. Most stores have security cameras too. Although, in rural parts it is still a BIG issue. The key, in my opinion, is rural. Fewer eye witnesses and fewer people to come upon something hinky.

JMO

 

[Dallen]

Just a few thoughts I've had catching up on this new thread...

There was a party on the 8th? That was a Monday. Does this seem strange to anyone else?
With that many grass fires in the area of Oswalt, Pike, and Long Hollow roads, how does anyone still have a home out there?

And I agree OkieGranny. Those were my thoughts when I first saw the pic of the 3 bodies. We need someone to care for these cases and take that kind of precision with some of these OK cases (Jamison's, Colt & Molly, Bible & Freeman off the top of my head), just like they did unearthing these bodies. Some of these LE are laughable, so I think if an outside group can help, wonderful!