PA PA - Ellen Greenberg, 27, Philly teacher’s brutal stabbing, ruled suicide but possible homicide, 26 Jan 2011

[Kaley Smith]

Sounds like murder. Common sense. Multiple stab wounds decides it for me.

 

[snarast]

Seems like murder. Door latch lock could have been broken at an earlier time.

She didn't mention abuse to anyone. If it happened, and she didn't mention it, it's quite likely that she was ashamed of the situation and hoped to sort it out herself.

Only person in the apartment was her husband. He went to the gym for 35 minutes. He returned. He was frantic and acted upset before he knew she was deceased. He announced it was suicide. He staged the body. His family removed her electronics.

Who arranged crime scene clean up ... was it apartment manager at the request of his family?

The apartment manager, who is featured prominently in the 603 doc, was very affected by Ellen’s death. She stood guard after Ellen had been pronounced dead and accompanied Ellen out to the car that went straight to the morgue.

She received a phone call that night or in the morning after Ellen died, asking if the police was done and the Schwartzmann’s could pick up Essentials that were understandably overlooked the day before.

She checked with the police who said sure it’s not a crime scene - and here’s the number to the crime scene clean up crew - go ahead and have it cleaned to minimise the horrible experience of having to walk around where your relative (to be) had bled out on the floor.

That officer was sure it was unaliving. I am not sure how, but he/she was.

IMHOO

 

[otto]

The apartment manager, who is featured prominently in the 603 doc, was very affected by Ellen’s death. She stood guard after Ellen had been pronounced dead and accompanied Ellen out to the car that went straight to the morgue.

She received a phone call that night or in the morning after Ellen died, asking if the police was done and the Schwartzmann’s could pick up Essentials that were understandably overlooked the day before.

She checked with the police who said sure it’s not a crime scene - and here’s the number to the crime scene clean up crew - go ahead and have it cleaned to minimise the horrible experience of having to walk around where your relative (to be) had bled out on the floor.

That officer was sure it was unaliving. I am not sure how, but he/she was.

IMHOO

It seems more like the police had something else they wanted to do, so they took the word of the most likely suspect that it was suicide, and closed the investigation. There's no way it was suicide.

 

[snarast]

It seems more like the police had something else they wanted to do, so they took the word of the most likely suspect that it was suicide, and closed the investigation. There's no way it was suicide.

Agreed. I can’t get over how Dr Osbourne’s honor as an MD was besmirched here.

I know he made a few mistakes - didn’t note evidence of abuse, missed a few stab wounds and the fresh bruising on her neck, the streaks of blood defying the law of gravity, etc…

But he called it as he saw it and he knew it was homicide. He preserved specimens because even though he may be flawed in some ways, he had the moral compass to call it as he saw it.

Too bad nobody respected him enough to ask for his official verdict - HOMICIDE.

IMHOO

 

[rescuemom]

Agreed. I can’t get over how Dr Osbourne’s honor as an MD was besmirched here.

I know he made a few mistakes - didn’t note evidence of abuse, missed a few stab wounds and the fresh bruising on her neck, the streaks of blood defying the law of gravity, etc…

But he called it as he saw it and he knew it was homicide. He preserved specimens because even though he may be flawed in some ways, he had the moral compass to call it as he saw it.

Too bad nobody respected him enough to ask for his official verdict - HOMICIDE.

IMHOO

Someone needed for it to be a suicide

 

[snarast]

The Consult dropped the first of a two parter where they analyse the October medical report.

They’re a very levelheaded bunch and they seem pretty perplexed. Excellent as always.

 

[rescuemom]

Could there possibly be justice for EG and her parents in 2026 ?????

 

[snarast]

Could there possibly be justice for EG and her parents in 2026 ?????

Well. Here’s a start from Guy D’Andrea:

Immaculate. Talk about no nonsense.

IMHOO

 

[macumezahn]

Was there multiple people's DNA on the knife handle or fingerprints in blood? (Did he touch it?) Was there blood/hair stuck on the countertop, where EG supposedly (I'm guessing) incurred the damage to the back of her head? Or was she supposed to have banged her head violently enough against the cabinets while sitting on the kitchen floor stabbing herself? Were the drains in the bathroom in the apartment and gym checked for blood/DNA? Why bother because LE proclaimed it was a suicide, before the autopsy was even done?

So many questions but the crime scene was professionally cleaned so quickly, too quickly and LE decided to take the word of EG's partner as gospel. AJMO.

Greetings.
1. No, they remark that only elles DNA was found on the knife in her chest. (Hulu series)
2. A severe blow to the head was not found, nor was any subdural bleeding, or fracture.
3. The admin lady said she took extensive video of the apartment BEFORE the cleaners came! No one seems to have asked her for that video....that would be my first goal.
4. The problem with the computer, is that we don't really know who typed in those searches..it needs to be analyzed by an independent source such as FbI.
5. Many remark that she had bruises, but abusive bruises, such as fingerprint impressions, grappling, etc were not present. Remember she was a 1st grade teacher, playing with kids, and it seems they both worked out regularly.

Keep asking questions fellow seekers..

 

[sunshineray]

From 3 days ago...just one of the things discussed...

The Philadelphia Medical Examiner's Office told the prosecutor reexamining EG's case 4 years after her death that the "sole" reason they changed it from a homicide to a suicide was the old-fashion dead bolt on the door. There was no dead bolt system on the door, it was a swing bar.

And oh so much more. Great interview and MANY unsound conclusions debated and denounced logically by this former Philadelphia homicide prosecutor.

'This was a homicide': Former prosecutor on Ellen Greenberg's death | Horror in the Heartland

Ellen Greenberg was found dead in her apartment with 20 stab wounds to her front and back in 2011. Despite that, her death was ruled a suicide, a ruling that was reaffirmed in 2025. But former pros…

www.newsnationnow.com

 

[wvmoonangel]

Sounds like murder. Common sense. Multiple stab wounds decides it for me.

I agree,it would be really hard to stab yourself in the back of the neck 10 times,if there were 20 stab wounds it seems like she would have bled out too quick to stab herself that many times.It seems like she would have paralyzed herself after the first couple of stabs in the back of the neck since that's where your spinal cord runs to. When her body was found and had all those bruises on her that itself screams DV.

 

[sunshineray]

I agree,it would be really hard to stab yourself in the back of the neck 10 times,if there were 20 stab wounds it seems like she would have bled out too quick to stab herself that many times.It seems like she would have paralyzed herself after the first couple of stabs in the back of the neck since that's where your spinal cord runs to. When her body was found and had all those bruises on her that itself screams DV.

Yeah in that video I posted that prosecutor reexamining the case said the ME stated EG did Pilates, in answer to the bruises. When the prosecutor said that didn't float, they brought up she taught little kids. Just one reason after another, none making much sense, MO

 

[MissPie]

Yeah in that video I posted that prosecutor reexamining the case said the ME stated EG did Pilates, in answer to the bruises. When the prosecutor said that didn't float, they brought up she taught little kids. Just one reason after another, none making much sense, MO

The interview with the former prosecutor is very, very enlightening. Highly recommend watching it. Thank you for the share @sunshineray!

 

[333_OnlyHalfEvil]

Greetings.
1. No, they remark that only elles DNA was found on the knife in her chest. (Hulu series)
2. A severe blow to the head was not found, nor was any subdural bleeding, or fracture.
3. The admin lady said she took extensive video of the apartment BEFORE the cleaners came! No one seems to have asked her for that video....that would be my first goal.
4. The problem with the computer, is that we don't really know who typed in those searches..it needs to be analyzed by an independent source such as FbI.
5. Many remark that she had bruises, but abusive bruises, such as fingerprint impressions, grappling, etc were not present. Remember she was a 1st grade teacher, playing with kids, and it seems they both worked out regularly.

Keep asking questions fellow seekers..

Oohhhh...someone needs to figure out who the video taker is and get a copy of that video

 

[snarast]

Oohhhh...someone needs to figure out who the video taker is and get a copy of that video

The video taker is the admin lady of Venice lofts and as I recall she gave it to the police.

 

[DustysMom]

Sounds like murder. Common sense. Multiple stab wounds decides it for me.

AGREE
if it looks like a ….
walks like a …..
it’s not a Sasquatch

 

[rescuemom]

Well. Here’s a start from Guy D’Andrea:

Immaculate. Talk about no nonsense.

IMHOO

I maintain and my opinion is not any better or more knowlegeable than others is that EG was murdered. She was a victim of previous and continued DV. Her bruises were not from rowdy children or Pilates. There continues to be a cover up. IMO, the two people that benefit from the truth coming out is SG and the then DA. They both walk free today.

 

[snarast]

I maintain and my opinion is not any better or more knowlegeable than others is that EG was murdered. She was a victim of previous and continued DV. Her bruises were not from rowdy children or Pilates. There continues to be a cover up. IMO, the two people that benefit from the truth coming out is SG and the then DA. They both walk free today.

American football @NFL level would be one cause for bruises like that.

I took the liberty of snapping this from the 603 doc.

Systematically stabbing like this - in order to get past the vertebrae - I can’t see that being done by someone flailing around with a huge steak knife behind their own back.

The arguments are many. The conclusion remains the same.

 

[Angelcat13]

US Attorney’s Office looking into Ellen Greenberg case!!

https://nbcphiladelphia.app.link/l606yr8oUZb

 

[snarast]

Waiting for more info - I got this from google ai mode - let’s put the locked door conundrum to bed:

”Locking a swing bar latch from the outside using a string is a common "hack," though it is primarily used for temporary security as it can be easily bypassed by anyone who knows the technique.

How to Lock a Swing Latch from the Outside

1. Prepare the Loop: Take a piece of thin, strong string (like a shoelace or ribbon) and create a loop.
2. Position the String: While inside, open the door slightly. Loop the string around the metal bar of the latch.
3. Thread to the Outside: Run the two loose ends of the string over the top of the door or through the side gap (between the door edge and the frame) so they are accessible from the outside once the door is closed.
4. Close the Door: Step outside and pull the door shut completely.
5. Engage the Latch: Pull the string ends taut toward the latch side. This tension will swing the bar over the ball stud, engaging the lock.
6. Retrieve the String: Release one end of the string and pull the other until the entire string is removed from the door.

Important Considerations

• Vulnerability: This method is often used by hotel staff or maintenance for "welfare checks" to bypass locks; conversely, it is a known security vulnerability. An intruder can use a similar string or rubber band technique to unlock the latch from the outside.

”