GUILTY PLEA DEAL ACCEPTED - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #111

[ilovewings]

Right, and while all inmates need to be treated humanely as possible, those who are serving time as convicted murderers especially don't deserve any type of luxuries IMO. They committed the ultimate act of violence, the taking of another human being's life.

Their victims are dead, being cruelly ripped away forever from loving families and friends who suffer endlessly. Just look at the ripple effect of what BK did. He left many family members deeply broken, a community in mourning, survivors with severe emotional trauma, and local LE and Prosecutors in an overwhelming emotional case. Bill Thompson broke down in the hearing the other day just reciting their names towards the end of his evidentiary summary.

I'd like BK to be sent to the toughest prison around. He brutally stole 4 innocent, capable lives and needs to pay the consequences of those actions, although nothing will ever bring those bright, beautiful young people back to our world.

JMO

And think about this: he is pretty young, I think he is 30- he has 40 or 50 years ahead of him to live in some horrible prison----- there are people that believe that is worse than the death penalty.

 

[whatzthebuzz]

New lurker here (who hasn't been following this case very closely until recently) with a DNA question.

Was IGG (investigative genetic genealogy) actually used in this case, or was it just a matter of comparing Bryan's touch DNA on the sheath to his father's DNA that LE obtained from the Pennsylvania home?

 

[kakadu]

Someone on X wrote: "BK told the jailhouse barber to trim his bushy eyebrows for court."

However, whether with or without bushy eyebrows, BK's gaze is frightening. The face of pure evil.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

So this plea satisfies every element of the State's original charges IMO. You can't improve on that. The reason cases go TO trial is because defendants don't/won't plead guilty. It's always a relief IMO when arrested suspects admit to guilt up front.

BK took two years to get there but it is done. He is done and trial is done. (Well, once sentencing is complete.)

Done, done, done and done.

JMO

Wanted to highlight this: "The reason cases go TO trial is because defendants don't/won't plead guilty."

A trial has certain satisfactions, among them a revelation of the means, methods and timeline evidence so we have a picture of the prosecution's narrative. In the Pike County massacre case, it was who did the planning, who shot which victim, what evidence did they leave at the scene, what other evidence did they have? It was the satisfaction of hearing the defendant's ex-wife and the ex-wife of his brother validate Hanna Rhoden's decision to leave Jake Wagner.

But in this case, what were we likely to learn from a trial? BK was never going to testify, so any "motive" would have been inferred by police. We might have learned if there were photos of the three female victims on his phone or whether he stalked the victims or other people. But the elements of the crime as outlined on Wednesday by the prosecutor is pretty much what people here have been saying for year. We have always had a pretty clear timeline. Four murders happened in a matter of minutes. The prosecutor said that the car and apartment had no forensic evidence. We might have gotten details about phone pings and Amazon searches.

But he plead guilty. That's the whole purpose of a trial. It's not to inform the public or provide catharsis. It's not a theater putting on a revenge drama. It's to determine if the accused is guilty of the crime. BK settled that matter, definitively.

 

[LAborn]

Wow, if this timing is correct that is exceptionally fast work frenzied even! Nuts
I know he had a history of drug use- was he on something?

How does this quick movement reconcile with enjoying the process, the game, the moment?
Did he get his jollies from the planning process?
Was he startled, or unexpectedly fueled or afraid?

If this is his first human to human physical attack- I’m amazed that he did not suffer injury, wake people up and get attacked himself. You don’t just buy a knife on Amazon and then go out there and use it correctly. Book reading and physical skills are not the same thing.
How/ where did he physically practice?

IMO

IMO the speed and lack of injury is mainly because the victims were mostly asleep. I'm still convinced he went there to kill only Maddy and the others were because of circumstances in the moment. XK was the only one who was awake from what's been published, and she's pretty tiny and unsuspecting of what was about to happen. I do wonder how none of his blood was at the scene though, maybe the gloves? He's was an academic, a researcher. He probably read and watched videos a lot prior.

 

[DizzyB]

Does anyone else recall a photo of a man in a black hood from a ring camera that was circulating when this first happened? I can't find it, but the one on the right reminds me of it.

Sure do. The people that were posting were referring to him as a Ninja. Early rumors, never substantiated, were that a roommate saw him, he was captured on the Ring dressed in black with a mask, and the front door was left wide open.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Yes, I think it was DT that saw him and she said container.
I read somewhere that the sheath was under MM or KG, he may have looked and couldn’t find it.
If he improvised- did he pick up something from the room- a pillow and pillow case or stuffed animal from KG’s or XK’s room?

He would have needed a place to hold all of these things that could potentially be splattered with blood- and he took these with him- and they were not on him to deposit blood outside the house or in the car.
Baklava
Coveralls
Shoe covers
Gloves
Knife
Anything else he took in that he took back out?

IMO

He could have had a black garbage bag, which might have looked like a container if it were folded over. If he came prepared, he had to have a place to put his bloody clothes.

 

[LAborn]

Wanted to highlight this: "The reason cases go TO trial is because defendants don't/won't plead guilty."

A trial has certain satisfactions, among them a revelation of the means, methods and timeline evidence so we have a picture of the prosecution's narrative. In the Pike County massacre case, it was who did the planning, who shot which victim, what evidence did they leave at the scene, what other evidence did they have? It was the satisfaction of hearing the defendant's ex-wife and the ex-wife of his brother validate Hanna Rhoden's decision to leave Jake Wagner.

But in this case, what were we likely to learn from a trial? BK was never going to testify, so any "motive" would have been inferred by police. We might have learned if there were photos of the three female victims on his phone or whether he stalked the victims or other people. But the elements of the crime as outlined on Wednesday by the prosecutor is pretty much what people here have been saying for year. We have always had a pretty clear timeline. Four murders happened in a matter of minutes. The prosecutor said that the car and apartment had no forensic evidence. We might have gotten details about phone pings and Amazon searches.

But he plead guilty. That's the whole purpose of a trial. It's not to inform the public or provide catharsis. It's not a theater putting on a revenge drama. It's to determine if the accused is guilty of the crime. BK settled that matter, definitively.

Well said.

 

[otto]

New lurker here (who hasn't been following this case very closely until recently) with a DNA question.

Was IGG (investigative genetic genealogy) actually used in this case, or was it just a matter of comparing Bryan's touch DNA on the sheath to his father's DNA that LE obtained from the Pennsylvania home?

Yes, he was identified using IGG.

"Law enforcement officials used investigative genetic genealogy to link DNA found on the sheath to Kohberger, 28, a doctoral student at nearby Washington State University studying criminology, according to the June 16 filing from the Latah County Prosecutor’s Office. The investigation found that the DNA was at least 5.37 octillion times more likely to be Kohberger's than an unrelated member of the public, the document states."

Genetic genealogy used to link suspect in Idaho slayings to crime scene, prosecutors say

DNA found on a knife sheath was at least 5.37 octillion times more likely to be Kohberger’s than that of an unrelated member of the public, prosecutors said in a court filing last week.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Chloegirl]

Not a single person has mentioned this as a possibility, so it is just a hunch. I have always understood visual snow to be linked with early signs of schizophrenia. I also know someone with the condition and it lines up. Each and every time I look at BK, I see something different. At times he appears to be a completely different person. I do believe that he has been developing schizophrenia throughout this process and way later. He is at the breakthrough age and it would line up. Again it is just a hunch. JMOO

Often, addicts are trying to solve an underlying problem when they get involved with drugs. I do not feel badly for BK and his actions. I do empathize with his struggles of trying to understand the world and himself.

 

[Sundog]

I look at BKs affect very differently now that it is being reported that he is autistic.
If you have ever encountered a male who is autistic- who has not had social therapy, many are quite robotic. The work they have to do to show signs of emotion is not natural.
I am not implying that people who are autistic are criminals- some here will misinterpret and jump down my throat.
What I am saying is that the absence of affect and understanding of human social cues is an aspect of autism- and that may be mis interpreted as lacking empathy, or psychopathy.
On the flip-side- do I have empathy for a killer due to their autism? No

What I do think is a person with autism can already be challenged by social awkwardness.
Being a child, teen, or college student with autism would not be easy. And how they would appear in court to a jury would be negative- even if they are not a guilty psychopath murderer.

I’m seeing experts interpret his affect as psychopath- but I am not hearing experts tell us what to expect of a an autistic psychopath. What does that look like?

IMO

I think you have raised some important issues, and that is why I think that a jury would not have been unanimous about a death penalty sentence if BK had a trial and was found guilty. I think there would have been at least one juror, and maybe more, who would have been uncomfortable with a state firing squad executing a person with autism.

So if there wasn't likely to be a death sentence in this case, then AT and BT would both have ample reason to negotiate a plea deal.

IMO.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I look at BKs affect very differently now that it is being reported that he is autistic.
If you have ever encountered a male who is autistic- who has not had social therapy, many are quite robotic. The work they have to do to show signs of emotion is not natural.
I am not implying that people who are autistic are criminals- some here will misinterpret and jump down my throat.
What I am saying is that the absence of affect and understanding of human social cues is an aspect of autism- and that may be mis interpreted as lacking empathy, or psychopathy.
On the flip-side- do I have empathy for a killer due to their autism? No

What I do think is a person with autism can already be challenged by social awkwardness.
Being a child, teen, or college student with autism would not be easy. And how they would appear in court to a jury would be negative- even if they are not a guilty psychopath murderer.

I’m seeing experts interpret his affect as psychopath- but I am not hearing experts tell us what to expect of a an autistic psychopath. What does that look like?

IMO

My own thoughts on his psychopathy come from his own statements that he doesn't feel things. Psychopaths who are criminals kill to experience heightened emotions, among other reasons (such as curiosity, control, dominance, sexual satisfaction)--all of which apply to BK based on what we know. His problems in the classroom, from demeanor to grading, are all about dominance, for example. I supervised a number of first-year grad students in the classroom and never saw one who was like BK.

I think looking from the outside, some autistic people are hard for others to read. I've known some that had all of their emotions out there. And some on the spectrum that I didn't even realize because their social demeanor didn't seem unusual. (Full disclosure--I think "neurodiversity," meaning natural differences in brain function and cognitive abilities, is more common that we realize, having spent 40 years in academic life and having observed all sorts of people capable of focus bordering on obsession.)

But we don't know enough--or maybe anything much--about what makes a psychopath. And it's likely that psychopathy occurs in all sorts of people, many or most of whom don't become remorseless killers. I do take your point, though, that whatever combination of factors leads to BK's public demeanor, it would not have served him on the witness stand.

 

[ilovewings]

Wanted to highlight this: "The reason cases go TO trial is because defendants don't/won't plead guilty."

A trial has certain satisfactions, among them a revelation of the means, methods and timeline evidence so we have a picture of the prosecution's narrative. In the Pike County massacre case, it was who did the planning, who shot which victim, what evidence did they leave at the scene, what other evidence did they have? It was the satisfaction of hearing the defendant's ex-wife and the ex-wife of his brother validate Hanna Rhoden's decision to leave Jake Wagner.

But in this case, what were we likely to learn from a trial? BK was never going to testify, so any "motive" would have been inferred by police. We might have learned if there were photos of the three female victims on his phone or whether he stalked the victims or other people. But the elements of the crime as outlined on Wednesday by the prosecutor is pretty much what people here have been saying for year. We have always had a pretty clear timeline. Four murders happened in a matter of minutes. The prosecutor said that the car and apartment had no forensic evidence. We might have gotten details about phone pings and Amazon searches.

But he plead guilty. That's the whole purpose of a trial. It's not to inform the public or provide catharsis. It's not a theater putting on a revenge drama. It's to determine if the accused is guilty of the crime. BK settled that matter, definitively.

Cannot agree more with this" but he pled guilty- that's the whole purpose of trial. it is not to inform the public or provide catharsis- It's not theater putting on a revenge drama. It is to determine if the accused is guilty of the crime. BK settled that matter definitively'

Thank you a thousand times over. So many people act like the trial is a show for THEM. For them to learn what really happened. You have stated it so well.
Thanks again.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Sorry. DBM. Cat sitting on the computer.

 

[NavySubMom]

Other posters on this forum have stated that they have bought a K-bar sheath without buying the knife. The k-bar sheath fits other knife brands and is a popular sheath. So apparently you don't have to buy the sheath as a pair with the knife, they are sold separately.

I did not think about that possibility, but you are correct.
I just did a quick search on Amazon for just a Kbar Sheath, and there are numerous Sheath options. I did not realize how many different styles and options of Kbar knives and sheaths there are, there are very , very many available on Amazon!
I just creeped myself out that Koberger was viewing those Amazon pages , and looking at the knives for a murderous possibility.

 

[ray9898]

I hope SG can somehow find peace now that this is over but I fear the leeway he is being given as a grieving father is quickly running out. <modsnip: not victim friendly>

 

[otto]

Not a single person has mentioned this as a possibility, so it is just a hunch. I have always understood visual snow to be linked with early signs of schizophrenia. I also know someone with the condition and it lines up. Each and every time I look at BK, I see something different. At times he appears to be a completely different person. I do believe that he has been developing schizophrenia throughout this process and way later. He is at the breakthrough age and it would line up. Again it is just a hunch. JMOO

Often, addicts are trying to solve an underlying problem when they get involved with drugs. I do not feel badly for BK and his actions. I do empathize with his struggles of trying to understand the world and himself.

I think Kohberger concocted claims of visual snow to discuss his absence of emotional connection with others. He claims that fuzzy vision means that others are video game people rather than real people. That's absurd.

The below comments are attributed to Kohberger. He seems to be using a symptom that is often associated with migraine to describe his absence of emotional connection to others; to objectify them and portray them as two dimensional people.

Visual snow and ocular migraine (also known by other names) is a temporary visual disturbance (typically lasting 20 minutes, followed by head pain) that interferes with reading, driving, doing anything that relies on vision. I have personal experience with this after a concussion. It is a type of migraine that has absolutely nothing to do with perceptions of others.

I think that Kohberger wanted to discuss his absence of emotion, and used visual perception as a spring-board. He's trying to be clever by camouflaging his sociopathic tendencies as a visual barrier.

"The man charged with the stabbing deaths of four University of Idaho students has spent much of his teen and adult life consumed by a rare neurological disorder known as visual snow syndrome.
...
Looking into the faces of family members was like “looking at a video game, but less.”

“As my family group hugs and celebrates, I am stuck in this void of nothing, feeling completely no emotion, feeling nothing,” the post said. “I feel dirty, like there is dirt inside of my head, my mind, I am always dizzy and confused. I feel no self worth.”

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article273153545.html

 

[ilovewings]

Sorry. DBM. Cat sitting on the computer.

That's cute!!!!!

 

[NavySubMom]

I followed this same line of thinking and wondered if you could purchase the sheath alone, or if you could purchase such knives from other places.

You can purchase a sheath alone on Amazon, and the K-Bar knife and sheath can be purchased from other places using cash or face to face without a credit card or online paper trail.

So- he made a mistake.

I think he shopped for a replacement knife and sheath- because he tossed the knife. I think he wanted a replacement because this weapon of choice had worked well for him and he had other plans for a second knife. To me BK has all the markings of a serial killer.
I watched the Dateline show- I was sickened by his interactions with a young woman who lived in his apartment complex. Not healthy at all

IMO

I am surprised he did make that mistake of buying the knife/sheath on Amazon, where there would be a clear record of his purchases. Law enforcement could easily subpoena Amazon for those records. He could have gone to a Sporting Goods store, and bought it with cash.

Also the mistake of driving his own car, the day of and the previous days of stalking the apartment/premises. Nowadays, security cameras are everywhere, especially apartment buildings/duplexes that are rentals. He could have rented a car, which could still eventually have been traced , but it might have confused things for a while. I don't think you can rent a car without the identifier of a driver's license, at minimum.

And then the mistake of leaving his DNA on the knife.
He failed Crime Scene Evidence 101, when he believed thought he could pull off the perfect crime.

Thisv

 

[whatzthebuzz]

Yes, he was identified using IGG.

"Law enforcement officials used investigative genetic genealogy to link DNA found on the sheath to Kohberger, 28, a doctoral student at nearby Washington State University studying criminology, according to the June 16 filing from the Latah County Prosecutor’s Office. The investigation found that the DNA was at least 5.37 octillion times more likely to be Kohberger's than an unrelated member of the public, the document states."

Genetic genealogy used to link suspect in Idaho slayings to crime scene, prosecutors say

DNA found on a knife sheath was at least 5.37 octillion times more likely to be Kohberger’s than that of an unrelated member of the public, prosecutors said in a court filing last week.

www.nbcnews.com

Thanks. Fell down a bit of a rabbit hole with articles / videos discussing genealogy databases that are used by LE / IGG where they shouldn't be used based on TOS and how LE / IGG gets around the issue.