GUILTY PLEA DEAL ACCEPTED - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #111

[MassGuy]

Premeditation is probably pretty complex. He enters the home illegally (burglary) to commit murders that were definitely premeditated. He may not have selected Xana as a target and he might not have known Ethan was there (although his car was). But he may have decided ahead of time to kill anyone he encountered (Xana and Ethan). Technically, entering a house to do murder may count as premeditated murder for anyone he killed. I'd love to have a lawyer explain how that works.

There's also the principal of "transferred intent." Kill one with premeditation and malice aforethought, and you kill them all with those elements.

 

[wary]

We don’t actually know the numbers in each family and from family to family. I think the rush to accept the deal was a grave disservice. The prosecution team could have taken more time to discuss everything in depth with each and every family member and the two survivors and get a full assessment of what the families wanted. The prosecutor didn’t and sent an email with an attachment basically stating it was a done deal. That’s so disrespectful and devastating to those who wanted to voice their opinions.

We need to face the facts. Our legal system does not, and should not, revolve around personal revenge OR personal forgiveness.

It is best for the State of Idaho that a quadruple murderer be locked up for the rest of his life. Anyone who’s paid any attention to at all to jury trials will know why it’s better to choose that certainty.

 

[justwannahelp]

If you were honest in voir dire about your DP feelings, you would never make it on a DP jury. IMO

Good point

 

[Fleur-de-lis]

Prediction: BK will not address the court with any speech. He will look blank and bored during the victims' statements. He may stare as he did on traffic stops. Dupers delight will be shown. MOO

 

[Arkay]

We don’t actually know the numbers in each family and from family to family. I think the rush to accept the deal was a grave disservice. The prosecution team could have taken more time to discuss everything in depth with each and every family member and the two survivors and get a full assessment of what the families wanted. The prosecutor didn’t and sent an email with an attachment basically stating it was a done deal. That’s so disrespectful and devastating to those who wanted to voice their opinions.

I think it may be insightful to watch Maddie’s mother’s press conference. This clip from Court TV with the family lawyer speaking for her and her family is very explicit in how much they support the plea deal.

Maddie resembles her mother so much. It’s easy to envision how much life she and the others should have been allowed to have.

When you refer continually to “the families,” you are not speaking on behalf of “the families,” but only for a portion of them.

I think I’ve written this too many times already. The families are not one voting block determined to get the DP. That is true for both Goncalves parents and Xana’s dad. It is not true for both Chapin parents, Maddie’s mom and step-dad, and I don’t know if Xana’s mother has spoken on it as she has other problems.

IMO, with respect that you are entitled to your opinion, we have to stay in the truth. The actual “families” do not all agree. The families that want this over are just as devastated as the families who feel cheated. They are just not as loud.

IMO it is not fair to discard the wishes of the families who are grateful that BK confessed and will be imprisoned ‘til his last breath.

I feel with my whole heart for Steve, but making threats is not lawful. What would happen to that family should Steve go too far and get arrested?

I truly understand that Steve believes he failed Kaylee. But in reality, a lot of things went wrong that night. I am one who believes Maddie was the target, as he headed directly for her room and likely didn’t expect Kaylee to be sleeping beside Maddie, as she had already moved out. Should Steve be angry at Maddie? If it weren’t for Maddie none of this might have happened? Or should Xana’s dad be furious that his daughter was hungry at 4 AM? If she hadn’t ordered Door Dash she and Ethan could have been asleep behind a locked door? Should Ethan’s family be angry about this?

This mass murder was of course completely unforeseen.

Having other children and grandchildren certainly does not replace Kaylee, but I hope the Goncalves family can focus on them and breathe a sigh of relief——no, BK won’t be shot, but he is truly going to be locked up, key thrown away—-all the clichés are true here.

Too soon there will be other gruesome murders that will overtake the headlines. Bryan Kohberger will not be top of the news.

I rejoice in that.

Just my opinion.

 

[Luna20]

But the criminal trial was over for OJ. All the information was now available. It's the not having the criminal trial over before the time limitation runs out for a civil wrongful death suit and you might need information from the criminal trial for the civil suit evidence that has me perplexed.

What do you mean by “But” the criminal trial was over? This one is over too, by way of the plea.

 

[Sundog]

What do you mean by “But” the criminal trial was over? This one is over too, by way of the plea.

It's not over until the defendant is sentenced. Then it takes a few weeks or more for the state to review the evidence, documents, etc. and redact them appropriately where needed before releasing them to the public that has requested them. So I think the concern of the OP was that the 2 year mark may be missed due to the time all this would take, on top of the time that has already gone by.

Edited to add: That is why the judge kept the gag order in place until after sentencing.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

But in today's hearing the judge listed each of the 4 charges as the premeditated with malice murders.

Perhaps it's the fact that he stalked one or more of the people living and/or regularly visiting the house (as evidenced by his cell phone being in the area 23 times before the night of the murders & likely other evidence).

So he stalked with premeditation and malice aforethought to kill one or more people/whomever was there that night in that house that he did end up killing, so the charges are applied to anyone murdered in that house.

IIRC, fairly early on LE said they thought the house and just the people in it were the targets of the murderer.

ETA: Whether or not 1 or more of the 6 of them in the house that night was/were his intended primary target(s), and he ended up killing 3 others & not all 6 of them, the Prosecution believes any or all them who he ended up killing that night in that house were killed with premeditation and malice aforethought.

JMO

 

[snooptroop88]

Let's flip this plea deal decision on its head for a minute.
What do we think would happen, and in particular, what do we think SG would have to say if the prosecution had declined to offer a plea bargain, one that specified LWOP and no right of appeal, let trial play out instead and then one juror, one as pigheaded as we have seen some people in here be and definitely the wider Internet, decides to vote not guilty?

What do we realistically think would happen then? When the only option Judge Hippler had would be to declare a mistrial, and the whole shebang had to start over, and then it comes out that the prosecution turned down a guilty plea, an admission in open court straight from the horses mouth?

I think everybody here can absolutely understand and empathise with SG, but he is a grieving father who has made it his mission to fight for his daughter for almost 3 years, he has delayed his grief and his healing because its unbearable for him to face it, he has had the distraction of the trial and the single minded focus of the DP to keep him going, and now that is at an end and he has nothing to hold onto to distract from pain that he doesn't want to face.
His feelings are 100% valid, but his methods are not.

The prosecution has done its job, and done it well. Their only goal is to get the best justice they can, and they did that. BK will leave prison in a box, whether the State had eventually killed him or nature does, the outcome is ultimately the same.

YES!!! A prosecutor would be shamelessly irresponsible to turn that down. It was a golden opportunity. BK stood in open court and admitted to the whole thing.

How often do you see that?? How many parents get that? And instead of giving this prosecution a hero's welcome, the prosecution is excorciated in the press?? It makes no sense, and I just think the "media platform" SG has found for himself is doing him no favors, and that's (jmo) not uncommon.

A mistrial for BK-- a catastrophe.

I have been reading and avoiding any urge to add my opinion to those of the many others here, as it pertains to the plea deal and some families' displeasure with it. Regardless of how one feels about whether or not the death penalty should have a place in our society, it is a legal sentencing option in the state of Idaho. If ever there was a criminal deserving of being put to death, I strongly believe that it is BK. I had no problem at all with the state deciding to pursue the death penalty, quite the contrary, and I would have shed no tears if the state carried that penalty out on this monster. Having said that, as strongly as I believe this case would have resulted in a conviction on all counts, had it gone to trial, I am not equally convinced that a jury would have agreed to sentence the monster to death. I think the majority would have, but it would have only taken one juror, one, to wipe the death penalty away, leaving the murderer with a sentence that affords far more future options than this plea deal affords him, which is the option to die in prison, and to live every day of the rest of his life, until then, in prison. Nothing more, nada. No appeals. No commutations. No release based on a technicality. Pardon my double negative, but no nothing. If he dies a month from now, or sixty years from now, he will die in the same cell he will move into in a couple weeks, or another one just like it.

I have so much empathy for all of the families and friends of Kaylee, Maddie, Xana, and Ethan. I pray for them, and pray that I never have to feel a fraction of the grief that they have felt for almost three years, and to some extent will feel for the rest of their lives. I pray especially for SG, who I believe is a good man and wonderful father, who I believe is talking from his hurting heart now and not from his head. I hope that in time he will come to realize that Kaylee would not want him to continue to live, filled with rage and hatred over the things that he cannot control. She would love to see him smile again, and live again, looking ahead, and not behind.

I do hope that he will decide to honor his daughter by facing her killer and letting him know that he took her body, but he did not kill Kaylee, because she will live forever in the hearts of those who loved her. Then perhaps he can begin the slow process of healing. JMO

(respectfully bolded by me) THIS is what I tihnk is the impetus behind SG's extremely ill-advised actions. I admit, I am anti-DP (but wishy-washily). I think it was just extremely painful for SG to know the DP was possible, but the P nonetheless went with this deal. But any trial's a gamble. They're still rumbling over in Crazytown that BK is at the center of a vast conspiracy. (See @PunishThenForgive post, which I'm still simultaneously reeling from and laughing over because Crazytown just can't stop being crazy.) The P delivered a masterstroke here.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

There's also the principal of "transferred intent." Kill one with premeditation and malice aforethought, and you kill them all with those elements.

Thanks for teaching me something new.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

 

[Luna20]

I think it may be insightful to watch Maddie’s mother’s press conference. This clip from Court TV with the family lawyer speaking for her and her family is very explicit in how much they support the plea deal.

Maddie resembles her mother so much. It’s easy to envision how much life she and the others should have been allowed to have.

When you refer continually to “the families,” you are not speaking on behalf of “the families,” but only for a portion of them. I think I’ve written this too many times already. The families are not one voting block determined to get the DP. That is true for both Goncalves parents and Xana’s dad. It is not true for both Chapin parents, Maddie’s mom and step-dad, and I don’t know if Xana’s mother has spoken on it as she has other problems.

IMO, with respect that you are entitled to your opinion, we have to stay in the truth. The actual “families” do not all agree. The families that want this over are just as devastated as the families who feel cheated. They are just not as loud.

IMO it is not fair to discard the wish of the families who are grateful that BK confessed and will be imprisoned ‘til his last breath.

I feel with my whole heart for Steve, but making threats is not lawful. What would happen to that family should Steve go too far and get arrested?

I truly understand that Steve believes he failed Kaylee. But in reality, a lot of things went wrong that night. I am one who believes Maddie was the target, as he headed directly for her room and likely didn’t expect Kaylee to be sleeping beside Maddie, as she had already moved out. Should Steve be angry at Maddie? If it weren’t for Maddie none of this might have happened? This was of course completely unforeseen.

Having other children and grandchildren certainly does not replace Kaylee, but I hope the Goncalves family can focus on them and breathe a sigh of relief——no, BK won’t be shot, but he is truly going to be locked up, key thrown away—-all the clichés are true here.

Too soon there will be other gruesome murders that will overtake the headlines. Bryan Kohberger will not be top of the news.

I rejoice in that.

Just my opinion.

The point may be that yes they wanted a trial but had they been addressed differently they would be in a better place. “Differently” according to what would have been acceptable to them. The shock is another hit and I believe right now the shock is impairing their judgement. I realize that it wasn’t the families that got to make the decision but perhaps a more personable discussion would have helped them understand.

So often people think they will be able to get passed it once the murderer divulges the truth, the motive, etc. Rarely does the truth come from the source and it is another disappointment for the grieving. The truth is that it will never make sense but SG desperately wants it to make sense to some extent.

 

[Luna20]

It's not over until the defendant is sentenced. Then it takes a few weeks or more for the state to review the evidence, documents, etc. and redact them appropriately where needed before releasing them to the public that has requested them. So I think the concern of the OP was that the 2 year mark may be missed due to the time all this would take, on top of the time that has already gone by.

Edited to add: That is why the judge kept the gag order in place until after sentencing.

True but I was thinking more so that it is over because we have a verdict by way of the plea. But your points are correct and valid.

 

[jcamh]

20 minutes

On site in Moscow, daytime view

Possible parking spots

Good synopsis

So, I have a question. Why would the door dash driver park on the side road instead of pulling into the parking area by the front door of the building? Did Xana ask for her delivery to be made to the back sliding door, instead of the front door. It would certainly be easier for Xana to just get the food at the back door and not wake up the whole house by someone ringing the front door bell and that is the only reason I can figure out for why the DD driver would not have parked in front of the house.

We know BK parked on the street so he could easily go down to the back door. If BK was actually parked by the DD driver as she claims, that's the only reason I figure out. Thoughts?

 

[Twistinginthewind]

I didn't know this or catch this, nor find where it was stated. Please, if you or someone can explain to me why he left the sheath next to MM? On purpose? ​

The knife sheath had a Marine insignia on it.

So IF it was left on purpose by BK (I haven't seen this stated as fact anywhere, will wait to see if this has come out recently from an approved source), it has been speculated by some, including myself, from very early on, that it was a red herring or a ruse or diversion left to point to the killer being a Marine or associated with someone with ties to being one.

MOO

 

[LAborn]

So, I have a question. Why would the door dash driver park on the side road instead of pulling into the parking area by the front door of the building? Did Xana ask for her delivery to be made to the back sliding door, instead of the front door. It would certainly be easier for Xana to just get the food at the back door and not wake up the whole house by someone ringing the front door bell and that is the only reason I can figure out for why the DD driver would not have parked in front of the house.

We know BK parked on the street so he could easily go down to the back door. If BK was actually parked by the DD driver as she claims, that's the only reason I figure out. Thoughts?

Does parking there make it quicker to leave? Or maybe they had another delivery that made parking there more efficient for the next stop.

 

[jcamh]

Yes, I think it was DT that saw him and she said container.
I read somewhere that the sheath was under MM or KG, he may have looked and couldn’t find it.
If he improvised- did he pick up something from the room- a pillow and pillow case or stuffed animal from KG’s or XK’s room?

He would have needed a place to hold all of these things that could potentially be splattered with blood- and he took these with him- and they were not on him to deposit blood outside the house or in the car.
Baklava
Coveralls
Shoe covers
Gloves
Knife
Anything else he took in that he took back out?

IMO

Just one clarification - it's Balaclava. Baklava is a delicious dessert.

 

[jcamh]

Does parking there make it quicker to leave? Or maybe they had another delivery that made parking there more efficient for the next stop.

I think Xana and BK's paths intersected as he came down the stairs and XK was on her way out of the kitchen after finishing her Taco Bell. I think she ran for her room and he caught her and killed her in the doorway to her room. EC was still asleep or was semi-waking up and that's when BK killed him, too.

 

[Megnut]

Gray Hughes, live so I can't link a time but he's doing the PCA timestamps by day.

There are mixing seconds which mean BK was stopped or moving slowly between fixed camera views. Eerie as heck that these points fall in sight lines of 1122 King Road. How impassioned AT was about no stalking. Remember? Driving 'but not over there', driving 'but not stopping' and no stalking. Except 23+ times. Oddly coincidental, no? And then, that morning, from about 3:30 to 4:30, he makes four loops, where 1122 King just so happens to be significant point. And now, based on incredible cctv coverage obtained by LE, the Elantra loops, retreats, pauses/parks, disappears from any view for approximately 12 minutes....

So yes, maybe LE could or couldn't establish any linkage between BK and any or all of the victims, what do you call it when a lone individual (in possession of a purchased kvar knife) lurks and loops in a neighboorhood he doesn't belong, hyper-interested in an off campus rental with female renters, and at 4 in the morning this night, but a pattern of doing so, over many months, late nights and early mornings? If that's not stalking, i don't know what stalking is, legal definition withstanding.

We may never know but BK supposedly (based on what Dateline presented) went to and left that pool party, same night, he was in the area of 1122 King Road, July. Barely had arrived in Washington and he's zeroed in on 1122. How, why?

i say one of the first things BK might have done, upon arrival to MN, was get a feel for the lay of the land, as it were, and find out where he could get could vegan fare. Mad Greek. He didn't need to eat a single meal there to know there'd be waitresses. Waitresses who eventually go home. Where do you live? How late do you work?

And if said waitresses aren't forthcoming, no problem for him, he can just follow them home. Not hard for a prolific tailgater.

Fits with his appearance at the pool party. Awkward. Gawker. Sizes up all the women, maybe they're 10 out of 10s. But BK thinks more highly of himself, feels he's due the 11s. And he's got one of those at 1122....

Maybe all he does is circle, park, watch.... 23+ times.

AT knew all of that all this time. Wanted to bring Sy Ray in to build out an alibi putting BK on the far edge of a wide arc when she ALREADY KNEW LE had practically continuous cctv mapping the loopy Elantra from his apartment to 1122 and back again. Damning. Calculated. Stalkerish. All that before he ever entered 1122 King Road

He was just getting started.

HE is what nightmares are made of.

jmo

 

[jcamh]

I went back and read my original post about what I thought happened and the order of it happening. I wrote that post way back a month or so after the murders happened. The detail that I was shocked that I got correct was when I said that he found KG and MM in the same bed. Here's why I thought that: Since KG had moved out a month or so earlier, I assumed she didn't have furniture in her own room and would be sleeping with MM. Plus, they had been drinking and it was late while they were texting KG's ex boyfriend so they could have easily fallen asleep together. I'm still debating who the target was -- MM or KG. I initially thought KG because somehow he found out she was in town for just that one night. But then, everyone seemed to think MM, and I did, too. But KG had told her father she had a stalker. I'm convinced that BK made contact with either MM or KG at some point and depending on which one it was, they rejected him, which he found humiliating and that's when he decided to kill them.