GUILTY PLEA DEAL ACCEPTED - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #112

[SteveP]

Perhaps a bit of insight into why SG, 'proud girl dad, father of five children, four of whom are daughters', may be struggling so much to accept the plea deal arrangement that BK agreed to, and the court accepted. From the Patterson book, The Idaho Four An American Tragedy, Chapter 52, upon learning of Kaylee's murder...

'Steve makes himself a promise. He will not rest until whoever did this is brought to justice. That is what Kaylee would want. That is what Kaylee would expect. And Steve will not let the Goncalves women down'.

I believe that he feels if he accepts anything less than the death penalty for BK, he is letting Kaylee and the others down. I am sure that Kaylee would not want him to carry that burden. My heart breaks for him. JMO

 

[seasideForest]

Not sure defense attorneys have always been this way, but I find it slimy when they know their client is guilty, but stretch the truth (or outright lie) to get people off. I thought defense was for falsely accused, now it's about getting criminals off.

I agree.

I've seen @LinasK 's post explaining otherwise, but just thought I'd add something different. I know the wife of a defense attorney (not in the US, so rules may well be different) and I once asked her how on earth her H could stand there and defend somebody who was obviously guilty as sin (I may have given examples, but I was thinking people like Kohberger and a bunch of other examples I know of from the UK and Canada all that kind of ilk) and she said it's not so much about trying to get them off the hook as about making sure they continue to be treated as a human being, because whatever society thinks about them and also no matter how awful their crime was, they are human and the protective part of the law applies to them too, even if their victims were obviously not protected. Meaning for instance if you're in a country like mine where there's no capital punishment, it can't suddenly be reinstated for a particularly heinous case. Nor may it be threatened. Also no matter how heinous the crime, if an interpreter is needed for language, the accused must be granted one. Things have to be explained to the accused, the accused can't be yelled at and degraded etc etc. The accused needs somebody exclusively for him/her in the room. If nothing else, to uphold the 'innocent till proven guilty'.

JMO

 

[seasideForest]

I agree with everyone else, its just that his hair is much more closely cropped.

In this photo you can see some lighter tones close to the roots, and he also appears to be wearing a lot of product, which also darkens the appearance slightly.

RSBM
Yeah, that hair did seem to contain rather a lot of 'product'.

I decided one showing of that photo in the thread is enough. Anybody interested can check your post.
MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Not sure defense attorneys have always been this way, but I find it slimy when they know their client is guilty, but stretch the truth (or outright lie) to get people off. I thought defense was for falsely accused, now it's about getting criminals off.

Every Defendant is entitled to a competent and robust defense. AT kept this murderer off Death Row. That was her job, which she accomplished. I found her to be formidable, more than smart, well versed in law, but I think near the end she tiptoed and maybe even stepped over the side of ethical at times.

I can't even begin to imagine who the alternate suspects would have been if Judge Hippler hadn't kiboshed her alternate alibi. More lives ruined running out the clock. Not cool AT, I lost a lot of respect for her then.

Judge Hippler will go down as one of the most efficient, knowledgeable, and fair Judges that I've ever had the pleasure of watching operate a Courtroom. A consummate professional at all times, with a few cool zingers thrown in for good measure.

JMO

 

[seasideForest]

AT kept this murderer off Death Row. That was her job, which she accomplished.

Why was that her job? Why attempt to mitigate punishment? I'm being serious here, I honestly don't know.

I understand the need for a competent and robust defense, especially so in a case potentially heading to Death Row. And even without Death Row - I've never lived in a country where capital punishment existed at the time I lived there and obviously defense is important in all my countries of residence, past and present.

Judge Hippler will go down as one of the most efficient, knowledgeable, and fair Judges that I've ever had the pleasure of watching operate a Courtroom. A consummate professional at all times, with a few cool zingers thrown in for good measure.

Big agree here!

 

[Seattle1]

Following up on my post from yesterday, mentioning the ease of breaking into a locked sliding glass door, and mentioning that there were suggestions that the door was broken and could not be locked, in chapter 42 of the Patterson book, The Idaho Four An American Tragedy, it is written, 'Everyone in their circle, even their parents, knew that the lock was broken. You just had to lift the mechanism up and the door released.' So BK surely had no trouble getting in through the slider. JMO

I think the slider, as a rule, was most likely left unlocked based on its location on the back side of the house, with an elevated deck entrance.

Also, I recall the front entrance very early being described as "known to all how to access" as OP describes, but also a story about Xana's father repairing this door lock during parents' weekend when he last visited Xana.

Hold on-- I'll look for the story post!

ETA: Hoped for the quote from dad to local, Idaho MSM source but adding link before edit time elapses.

Locks on Idaho college house were fixed weekend before killings, victim’s mom says

“It just doesn’t make sense. None of this makes sense. It had to have been somebody they trusted.”

nypost.com

 

[AcerPacer]

So maybe you can ask your friend if Bryan's hair was really lighter, or was it just the lighting in the courtroom?

Wish I had the laughing emoji ..please imagine I put one on it!

 

[seasideForest]

but also a story about Xana's father repairing this door lock during parents' weekend when he last visited Xana.

iirc that turned out to be a misunderstanding, as in a word was misheard, a story developed out of that and was run with... I'll just say MOO because I'm not looking for it, it's somewhere in all these threads.

None of the victims are at fault, that goes without saying - BK did this awful, heinous crime but if I were one of the parents who'd known about how easy it was to gain entrance to that house, I would have trouble letting that go. Like, "If only we had insisted on that slider door being seen to!!". That would be going through my head. Idk if it would have helped keep BK out, if he'd maybe have tried an easier house to gain entrance to? Probably not if he actually was stalking MM beforehand.
JMO

I did study in a pretty small town, but our main door was always locked, and that was about 30 years ago.

 

[SteveP]

I think the slider, as a rule, was most likely left unlocked based on its location on the back side of the house, with an elevated deck entrance.

Also, I recall the front entrance very early being described as "known to all how to access" as OP describes, but also a story about Xana's father repairing this door lock during parents' weekend when he last visited Xana.

Hold on-- I'll look for the story post!

ETA: Hoped for the quote from dad to local, Idaho MSM source but adding link before edit time elapses.

Locks on Idaho college house were fixed weekend before killings, victim’s mom says

“It just doesn’t make sense. None of this makes sense. It had to have been somebody they trusted.”

nypost.com

It has been posted here, that the story about a lock being changed by Xana's dad was a misunderstanding, in which it was stated by her dad, after the visit, that Xana had grown and had "changed a lot", and one news source, Banfield, I believe, interviewed her mother, who was not there at all , and she misunderstood it as he had "changed a lock", though she wasn't even sure where the supposed fixed lock was. Then some other sources picked it up and ran with it. Here is a link from @gremlin444...

G

Post in thread '4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #108'

May 24, 2025

Forgive me if this has been brought up recently- it’s hard to keep up!! But weren’t there accounts early on about Xana’s family coming to help fix the sliding door due to safety concerns? Was that just a rumor? Apologies if this has been debunked, I’m unsure what ever happened to this information

Let me bring forward what I wrote about this recently:

Man, this part of the story is all over the place, believe me. And it doesn't help that a lot of media doesn't bother to make corrections or do verification, so they just echo the same false info even now.

Turns out it was like ye...

• gremlin444

• 
• 

 

[girlhasnoname]

Why was that her job? Why attempt to mitigate punishment? I'm being serious here, I honestly don't know.

<RSBM for focus>

Because AT was appointed by the State of Idaho as a DP Qualified Defense Attorney to represent BK during both the trial/Guilt Phase, and the Sentencing/Penalty Phase. Mitigating punishment is part of the Penalty phase in a Death Penalty Case.

IMO

 

[seasideForest]

Because AT was appointed by the State of Idaho as a DP Qualified Defense Attorney to represent BK during both the trial/Guilt Phase, and the Sentencing/Penalty Phase. Mitigating punishment is part of the Penalty phase in a Death Penalty Case.

OK, thank you.
I'm sure that's been stated on this thread already, possibly multiple times, but didn't sink in, in my case.

 

[browneyes]

I think the slider, as a rule, was most likely left unlocked based on its location on the back side of the house, with an elevated deck entrance.

Also, I recall the front entrance very early being described as "known to all how to access" as OP describes, but also a story about Xana's father repairing this door lock during parents' weekend when he last visited Xana.

Hold on-- I'll look for the story post!

ETA: Hoped for the quote from dad to local, Idaho MSM source but adding link before edit time elapses.

Locks on Idaho college house were fixed weekend before killings, victim’s mom says

“It just doesn’t make sense. None of this makes sense. It had to have been somebody they trusted.”

nypost.com

Emily Alandt commented in the Prime documentary that she had never locked a door while living in Moscow. Everyone seemed to feel so safe. BK really ruined so many lives.

 

[iamshadow21]

Why was that her job? Why attempt to mitigate punishment? I'm being serious here, I honestly don't know.

I understand the need for a competent and robust defense, especially so in a case potentially heading to Death Row. And even without Death Row - I've never lived in a country where capital punishment existed at the time I lived there and obviously defense is important in all my countries of residence, past and present.


Big agree here!

Attorneys who choose to take on DP clients know going in that they are up against very poor odds, that the evidence and weight of public opinion is against them.

I can't speak for AT specifically, but I know for many of them, they see their role to keep the prosecution strictly within the bounds of the law, and to save their client's life.

That doesn't mean they're looking for an acquittal.

Clarence Darrow, one of the most storied and controversial defense attorneys of the early twentieth century was a very strong opponent of the death penalty. His tactics got him into hot water at times, but he was very successful at what he did. He took the deaths of the very few clients he failed to save from the ultimate penalty deeply personally. Yes, he was a showboat, but he also saw his chosen role in the courts as a vocation.

I don't think every celebrity defense attorney has a moral position - plenty are just happy to take the money and the fame and ignore the crime - but I think the best do. They're the ones who haven't forgotten they're an officer of the court, and their role is keeping the prosecution honest, not winning at any cost.

MOO

 

[seasideForest]

, but also a story about Xana's father repairing this door lock during parents' weekend when he last visited Xana.

Hold on-- I'll look for the story post!

ETA: Hoped for the quote from dad to local, Idaho MSM source but adding link before edit time elapses.

Locks on Idaho college house were fixed weekend before killings, victim’s mom says

“It just doesn’t make sense. None of this makes sense. It had to have been somebody they trusted.”

nypost.com

RSBM
I understood that somebody misunderstood/misheard Xana's father and then the story evolved into something it hadn't been. I don't have access to nypost, so can't check what's written. Anyway, I'll just leave that for the moment, not worth losing sleep over, for me. MOO

 

[PunishThenForgive]

iirc that turned out to be a misunderstanding, as in a word was misheard, a story developed out of that and was run with... I'll just say MOO because I'm not looking for it, it's somewhere in all these threads.

None of the victims are at fault, that goes without saying - BK did this awful, heinous crime but if I were one of the parents who'd known about how easy it was to gain entrance to that house, I would have trouble letting that go. Like, "If only we had insisted on that slider door being seen to!!". That would be going through my head. Idk if it would have helped keep BK out, if he'd maybe have tried an easier house to gain entrance to? Probably not if he actually was stalking MM beforehand.
JMO

I did study in a pretty small town, but our main door was always locked, and that was about 30 years ago.

As @iamshadow21, @SteveP and others have stated, sliders are notoriously easy to breach. And based on the chilling Part Two: Inception of The Idaho Four: Am American Tragedy, I have little doubt a locked door of any kind would have given BK the slightest pause.

IMO

 

[seasideForest]

I can't speak for AT specifically, but I know for many of them, they see their role to keep the prosecution strictly within the bounds of the law

That I do understand, and mostly agree with your post.

But in places like Idaho where DP is allowed I didn't quite understand why the criminal should be saved from DP, except for what @girlhasnoname has just explained further up.

Not to get into a discussion pro/anti DP, but I'm personally anti, am very glad that I've always lived in countries without and am also glad that none of these countries are near to re-instigating DP, but where it's legal and in such a heinous case - let's say I wouldn't be demonstrating outside the courts for BK or writing letters to Amnesty International had he been moved onto Death Row.
Also I can understand why SG is so upset and angry, even though I do of course understand why there was a plea deal and for many reasons (not least the wishes of some of the other families plus probably BF and DM) I totally agree with the plea deal.

MOO

 

[seasideForest]

also a story about Xana's father repairing this door lock during parents' weekend when he last visited Xana.

Hold on-- I'll look for the story post!

ETA: Hoped for the quote from dad to local, Idaho MSM source but adding link before edit time elapses.

Locks on Idaho college house were fixed weekend before killings, victim’s mom says

“It just doesn’t make sense. None of this makes sense. It had to have been somebody they trusted.”

nypost.com

RSBM
Just so everybody can see it, including those of us who can't access the text of nypost (the headline still mentions "locks fixed"), here's the de-bunk of Xana's father's repair of door lock: (BBM)

This was raised on a prior thread not too long ago. @gremlin444 knows the details. Essentially there was a misunderstanding between XK's parents. The dad said that not long prior to the murders he visited at 1122 and observed (in a positive way) that XK had "changed alot".

Some time after this Ashley Banefield published a telephone interview with XK's mum where she quotes the mum as saying the dad had "changed the lock". What a classic.

Even though the misunderstanding was corrected by the dad subsequent to this, Banefield (naturally enough Imo) never bothered to correct her reporting and apparently sectors of sm have run with the misinformation ever since AFAIK. Jmo

 

[LAborn]

Every Defendant is entitled to a competent and robust defense. AT kept this murderer off Death Row. That was her job, which she accomplished. I found her to be formidable, more than smart, well versed in law, but I think near the end she tiptoed and maybe even stepped over the side of ethical at times.

I can't even begin to imagine who the alternate suspects would have been if Judge Hippler hadn't kiboshed her alternate alibi. More lives ruined running out the clock. Not cool AT, I lost a lot of respect for her then.

Judge Hippler will go down as one of the most efficient, knowledgeable, and fair Judges that I've ever had the pleasure of watching operate a Courtroom. A consummate professional at all times, with a few cool zingers thrown in for good measure.

JMO

I found her to be super annoying and her arguments ludicrous (all of his attorneys). And keeping BK off death row doesn't seem to be something to be proud of. I'm not pro death penalty, but BK deserves nothing spared, imo. I'm sure this will sound harsh to some. Judge Hippler on the other hand, was the most professional and patient judge in the face of her nonsense.

 

[Arkay]

Every Defendant is entitled to a competent and robust defense. AT kept this murderer off Death Row. That was her job, which she accomplished. I found her to be formidable, more than smart, well versed in law, but I think near the end she tiptoed and maybe even stepped over the side of ethical at times.

I can't even begin to imagine who the alternate suspects would have been if Judge Hippler hadn't kiboshed her alternate alibi. More lives ruined running out the clock. Not cool AT, I lost a lot of respect for her then.

Judge Hippler will go down as one of the most efficient, knowledgeable, and fair Judges that I've ever had the pleasure of watching operate a Courtroom. A consummate professional at all times, with a few cool zingers thrown in for good measure.

JMO

I agree, for the most part.

Absolutely 1000% concur about Judge Hippler. No-nonsense, some well-placed zingers to make salient points, knows the law intimately.

I’m not fond of AT, although I do respect that every defendant has Constitutional rights and is afforded representation.

IMO, AT began with the law and anything she could conceivably do within the bounds of the law to defend BK. But I think she really started going off the rails and into the realm of phantasmagoria once she saw that nothing was working.

Maybe some of this might have flown when it was still Judge Judge. However, I think that once she saw that Hippler was slapping down most of her preposterous notions, she was no longer able to cobble together an effective strategy.

Trying to quash the validity of his DNA, wanting to exhume (figuratively or literally) his long-dead ancestors in order to claim genetic mental instability, referencing childhood shoe-tying and trouble forming numerals as proof that he was too disabled to have committed a quadruple murder, requesting more time because she refused assistance from her staff—-to me, as she is indeed an experienced lawyer, she should have long ago approached the prosecution for this plea deal and spared the families this long ordeal.

Just my opinion.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

That I do understand, and mostly agree with your post.

But in places like Idaho where DP is allowed I didn't quite understand why the criminal should be saved from DP, except for what @girlhasnoname has just explained further up.

Not to get into a discussion pro/anti DP, but I'm personally anti, am very glad that I've always lived in countries without and am also glad that none of these countries are near to re-instigating DP, but where it's legal and in such a heinous case - let's say I wouldn't be demonstrating outside the courts for BK or writing letters to Amnesty International had he been moved onto Death Row.
Also I can understand why SG is so upset and angry, even though I do of course understand why there was a plea deal and for many reasons (not least the wishes of some of the other families plus probably BF and DM) I totally agree with the plea deal.

MOO

It's the defense attorney's job, in a death penalty case, to first, try to argue that the prosecution doesn't have the evidence beyond a reasonable doubt to convict their client. The attorney or attorneys put up a defense for the client. But the goal for the defense, if the accused client is found guilty, is to get a lower sentence than death. It's the defense attorney's job to save the life of the client, if he or she is found guilty.