GUILTY PLEA DEAL ACCEPTED - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #113

[Sundog]

Watching the Peacock documentary, and they briefly showed a post BK made in a "visual snow" group. I found graphics of them, and find them pretty telling. Looks like from 2011 when he was 17? They've probably been posted here before, but might be interesting to revisit. There are 4. There's more details in the documentary at around the 36 min. mark (Angenette Levy narrates some of his posts). Also, possible relevance, when he started to lose weight he started boxing, so may be an aspect of the blunt force trauma on Kaylee.

The lead investigator on the case said that the blunt force trauma on Kaylee was not a result of BK using his fists. From CNN interview.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I don't know what article you're referring to. In the documents themselves it says that only Kaylee's face is unrecognizable. As far as him fleeing, that would have been impossible if Xana was into his way. Yes, he could have just ran away, but in his flight or fight response he chose to fight his way out of it.

I don’t think I would categorize anything he did in that house as involving his fight or flight response.
He came there to kill people. He initiated the whole situation. Xana exhibited fight or flight. She ran, but he followed her and continued his attack. She fought like crazy.
BK displayed the behavior of a determined and frenzied killer.
Xana was not chasing him, and she was not trying to kill him. She was trying to not be killed.
He was never threatened by those children. He chose to continue his attack. Doubtful fleeing ever crossed his mind.

 

[AngTxGal]

OK....that is just plain WEIRD.

I also found the trailer for the movie BK’s sister, Amanda, played in called, Two Days Back.
New York Post, Jan 2023.

two days back- Fall 2011

IMO

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I think Dylan and Bethany owe their lives to Kaylee and Xana.
They were unexpected and were wrenches thrown into this killers plans. Their fierce fights with him exhausted him and let to him leaving sooner than he planned.

Just my thoughts

 

[femto]

I don’t think I would categorize anything he did in that house as involving his fight or flight response.
He came there to kill people. He initiated the whole situation. Xana exhibited fight or flight. She ran, but he followed her and continued his attack. She fought like crazy.
BK displayed the behavior of a determined and frenzied killer.
Xana was not chasing him, and she was not trying to kill him. She was trying to not be killed.
He was never threatened by those children. He chose to continue his attack. Doubtful fleeing ever crossed his mind.

I hate this play of semantics. Nobody suggested he went there to sip tea, he went there to kill. But his plan obviously went wrong and I seriously, seriously doubt he intended to kill 4 people. What happened after Maddie was basically him improvising on spot, not some well planned mass killing. He killed Kaylee because she woke up and fought him, he chased after Xana because he was startled and didn't want to get caught. He killed Ethan because he saw him as a threat. He didn't kill Dylan or Bethany because they were not seen as immediate threats. Dylan didn't react outwardly to what he did so he ignored her. If she did what Xana did, she'd have ended the same way. If Xana reacted in a similar way to Dylan, he most likely would have simply left. The point is past his initial plan of killing Maddie or Kaylee upstairs, this was a thoroughly disorganized attack. He like Xana entered a fight or flight response. That's not an excuse of his actions, quite the opposite. He chose to kill rather than run away. He could have easily abandoned his plan (unless there is something we don't know) and left when he found Maddie and Kaylee in the same bed, but he didn't. He was fully committed to what he wanted to do.

As far as him being 'threatened' by them, it's not about a physical threat, it's the threat of being caught. If in an alternate scenario he left Xana alive, she'd have called 911 and he'd be immediately caught.

IIRC, the lead investigator said that Maddie had defensive wounds, so likely the wounds on her forearms and face were as a result of waking up and fighting back.

Source is the CNN interview with the lead investigator on the case.

'Defensive wounds' might simply be her raising her hand instictiviely to defend herself. I don't think she was in any position to fight back after the initial strike to her torso which would have rendered her pretty much helpless from the get go.

 

[AngTxGal]

He lost his TA position after an "altercation" with his professor, who was the grad advisor for the program. He is a man and a well known criminal attorney. A criminal defense attorney.

John Snyder | Department of Criminal Justice and Criminology | Washington State University

crmj.wsu.edu

That's the person who went to higher ups in the university and IIRC, is the one who delivered the news about the discontinuance of the TA position to the soon-to-be-expelled student.

So he had trouble with at least one man. We also do not know the gender of every student who might have complained about him (supposedly he went from grading harshly to giving everyone in the class an "A" on every assignment after some students complained).

The woman who supervised his master's thesis wrote glowing things about him, though and Katherine Ramsland also thought he was a fine student and very intelligent.

The person mentioned as "L" in the documents says that he approached his women students "inappropriately" (as in wanted relationships with them, is how I took it). He certainly had problems getting close to women in appropriate ways. "L" was apparently a friend or acquaintance of his.

Totally agree that he was socially isolated and obviously very angry. We use the word "human" in several different senses, a topic of much discussion in philosophy and anthropology. When I say "Person" I mean an entity that is capable of consciousness, rationality and moral reasoning. The word "human" is more complicated, but when I say he is not "human" I mean that he does not exhibit the best features of our species (I'm using it in a way similar to the root of the word "humanity.")

Biologically, he is of course human and deserves the same treatment as other humans get when they have acted as he has. In this case, Idaho has decided to sentence him to life in prison, which I think is just. I also agree with those who are saying he might be relieved to be permanently locked up.

My apologies, yes I see that his MS was under a female supervisor, but the supervisor for the TA position was a male- John Snyder.

I knew he had funding through his TA position- a stipend, and that this was in danger due to accusations of a lack of professionalism with students. He would lose his TA stipend- money.
I did not know they were also going to kick him out of school- an academic situation.

If the school was planning to kick him out- that is a bigger deal than removing his TA position. I wonder if it was those altercations with John Snyder that put him on someone’s radar. All they needed there was to hear LE was looking for a white Elantra. If Snyder knew BK had a white Elantra, those altercations, his proximity to Moscow, issues with female students, and the car would be enough to have someone look into it.
FYI
In the Peacock documentary The Idaho Student Murders, repeated altercations are mentioned as are interviews with some students under BK, and a who claims he followed her home one night.

IMO

 

[gremlin444]

IIRC, the lead investigator said that Maddie had defensive wounds, so likely the wounds on her forearms and face were as a result of waking up and fighting back.

Source is the CNN interview with the lead investigator on the case.

I just watched it and read the transcript. He did not speak about any of Maddie's injuries. He only discussed Xana and Kaylee.

 

[LetsSolvIt]

No doubt her love for her son is unconditional, as a parent’s love should be. I am only sorry her love did not prevent her son from committing such heinous acts and that it did not help him take accountability sooner.

Even now, with his silence—his refusal to answer Alivea Goncalves’s questions—he continues to hurt his victims and fuels ongoing speculation that he is sacrificing his own life to protect his parents.

A parent’s role is not only to offer unconditional love, but also to guide your child to be a good and decent person. To do that, we must be on the lookout for troubling behavior and intervene as soon as possible. And not just parents—all of us who have a relationship with the child and parents.

As Katherine Ramsland says, if a child displays psychopathic traits, intervention must occur in early childhood to be most effective: 3 Dimensions of Youthful Psychopathy.

IMO

(Edited to correct the spelling of Kaylee’s sister’s name.)

After reading all the descriptions of #x214 and people’s experiences with him over the years, I am struggling to understand why no one was more concerned before, why no one saw his potential for evil, or why there weren’t alarm bells going off with people close to him and/or the people he was around trained in human behavior.

I just don’t understand how he could suppress his rage for years until Nov. 13, and then day after day present like the sphinx, unempathic and stone cold. Did he have some neurological snap in 2022? While mostly described as creepy, weird, and socially inappropriate, did no one before ever get a hint into his brewing rage? Question his penitrating staring and unbreakable flat affect? Or recognize any danger signs? Did he only question the abnormalcy of his emotions on SM and never tell anyone?

I am especially curious about all these forensic and criminology instructors with whom he was interacting during college and grad school? Even going back to high school, weren’t there any resource teachers or professionals he encountered with his learning differences and alleged spectrum symptoms (I can’t recall whether he was actually in special ed or had an IEP) who got vibes? Was he that good and consistent an actor?

IDK. Maybe each character only saw a little piece and if they had had the opportunity to sit down together to share their observations, it might have added up to the dangerous, sick criminal he is. OMHO.

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

Don't know if these have been posted, Bill Thompson interviews.

 

[crhedBngr]

Agree. But I think he did a lot of things right to leave so little evidence, in preparation, forensic and physical cleanup, etc. I am not trying to give him credit here but it is astonishing.

He has to have killed before. How would you know that you had the capacity to do this, especially on this level? I cannot imagine this is the first time he has tested himself.

It strikes me as odd to mention this, but if you are an incel/whatever out there you have to know it is not about your physical looks. It is about your energy, truly connecting with people, being open, not clinging or demanding of the universe. If this is your perceived alternative, it is not pretty or viable. It would be better to challenge yourself to grow socially, emotionally, understand your life experiences more before your anger takes over and this becomes your life.

Had BK challenged himself in different ways, he would still be in the game of life, with partners, educational opportunities, friends, career paths, and more. This becomes a total waste of human experience just for him, not to mention those he took out, spiraling on his way down. Total life failure. He should be disappointed in himself. JMOO

RBBM

Agreed, 100%.

He could have found someone who wanted children and wanted to be a stay-at-home mom. Someone compassionate who could help him get past his issues.

What a waste of lives.

JMVHO.

 

[Sundog]

I just watched it and read the transcript. He did not speak about any of Maddie's injuries. He only discussed Xana and Kaylee.

So I must have misunderstood, I'll have to listen to it again but remove my post in the meantime.

 

[gremlin444]

I don’t think I would categorize anything he did in that house as involving his fight or flight response.
He came there to kill people. He initiated the whole situation. Xana exhibited fight or flight. She ran, but he followed her and continued his attack. She fought like crazy.
BK displayed the behavior of a determined and frenzied killer.
Xana was not chasing him, and she was not trying to kill him. She was trying to not be killed.
He was never threatened by those children. He chose to continue his attack. Doubtful fleeing ever crossed his mind.

I believe he pursued and attacked her because she was a now awake witness with the ability to immediately call 911. If he ignores her and just pushes past her to run out the back door to his car, he knows he can't stop and do any of the stripping of his protective gear before he jumps in his car--that would lose him valuable seconds when she would literally be on the phone with 911. That means he would have higher risk of him bringing evidence into his car. Not to mention the fact that the only way for him to exit the neighborhood is to drive directly in front of the house...what if LE is right nearby or Xana or someone else in the house run to a front window and are able to see his car and maybe even plate as he speeds away?

So, you either chase and kill the person in front of you to stop them from calling LE (if he knew that Ethan was there, he knows there's a risk she will be able to wake Ethan up and Ethan could chase after him) OR you ignore them, run out and now increase your chances of getting caught in the vicinity with forensic evidence, a knife, and a bloody coversuit.

That was how he was threatened by Xana finding him.

I fully believe Dylan escaped the same fate because 1) after having to kill Xana and Ethan all could think of was getting out of there...the risk that someone had heard and already called the police after two additional murders was now highly elevated and 2) he didn't see her...whether it was because of the Good Times light making it harder to see her or literally tunnel vision from adrenaline.

 

[sunshineray]

Im coming to this late and replying as I go, so someone's very well have already said the same thing, but does this sound to anyone else like BK was trying to get them to question him after he asked for a lawyer? Already trying to be 1 step ahead at getting things suppressed at a later date?
Tbf, I'm probably giving him way too much credit

I think that's exactly what he was trying to do, MO

 

[AngTxGal]

Maybe I used the wrong word. She did not defend Bundy but advocated against the DP. Which indicates some interest in crime.

I can say I am interested in crime. I would like to see justice. From past experience I have had DV in my life, which has maybe me extra cautious in order to identify danger ahead of time.....

From my bookstore days, most readers of true crime are women, and I can completely understand that.

It has been said in many places that BK studied Ted Bundy.

Ted Bundy- Wikipedia

I wondered what they had in common. There are several interesting connections between BK and Bundy, in addition to the OpEd written regarding Bundy’s execution by Kohberger’s mother.

BK and Bundy had these things in common, interesting

• born in Nov- three days apart
• peeping Toms, hid outside and watched women undress
• broke into homes
• described themselves as having difficulty with human relationships, making friends
• bullied in school
• described as good students, bright
• attended college in Washington State
• blunt force trauma on victims
• commit first murder on record at age 27
• 6 feet tall
• entertained by images of sexual violence with women
• loners
• worked in security
• able to leave little forensic evidence at crime scene

The pictures of Bundy on Wikipedia kinda could pass for BK? maybe my imagination

IMO

 

[LetsSolvIt]

I would be surprised if the parents didn't receive a copy of the autopsy report. One of my family members died in an accident many years ago and I received a very detailed autopsy report. If an autopsy takes place, then I think the family is given a copy of the report. JMO.

Sadly, someone had to ID the body and my guess is it dad, SG. From what we have seen of him, he would have protected the rest of his family, and made the ID himself and alone. MOO.

 

[Warwick7]

I understand why they feel this way, and it seems so unfair, but I cant help but think that the reason they weren't informed until now is because from the very beginning SG was very vocal, and didnt seem to hold anything back. He made things public that maybe really shouldn't have been, and that is why I believe the gag order was very suddenly required.
He shot himself in the foot very early on

I wouldn't say shot himself in the foot. Either way the rest of us were waiting on bated breath as he did every interview. We are all were hoping he'd say something.

 

[AngTxGal]

I hate this play of semantics. Nobody suggested he went there to sip tea, he went there to kill. But his plan obviously went wrong and I seriously, seriously doubt he intended to kill 4 people. What happened after Maddie was basically him improvising on spot, not some well planned mass killing. He killed Kaylee because she woke up and fought him, he chased after Xana because he was startled and didn't want to get caught. He killed Ethan because he saw him as a threat. He didn't kill Dylan or Bethany because they were not seen as immediate threats. Dylan didn't react outwardly to what he did so he ignored her. If she did what Xana did, she'd have ended the same way. If Xana reacted in a similar way to Dylan, he most likely would have simply left. The point is past his initial plan of killing Maddie or Kaylee upstairs, this was a thoroughly disorganized attack. He like Xana entered a fight or flight response. That's not an excuse of his actions, quite the opposite. He chose to kill rather than run away. He could have easily abandoned his plan (unless there is something we don't know) and left when he found Maddie and Kaylee in the same bed, but he didn't. He was fully committed to what he wanted to do.

As far as him being 'threatened' by them, it's not about a physical threat, it's the threat of being caught. If in an alternate scenario he left Xana alive, she'd have called 911 and he'd be immediately caught.

'Defensive wounds' might simply be her raising her hand instictiviely to defend herself. I don't think she was in any position to fight back after the initial strike to her torso which would have rendered her pretty much helpless from the get go.

I think it was more planned than disorganized.
If BK had wanted to invade a home and attack one person alone, he chose the wrong house.

So he intended to go into a home where he knew several people would be present.
We know he had visited that house many times, and assume he watched casing it when he was there. He knew more than one person lived there.
He knew the floor plan to some degree- which is pretty strange- in that it has five bedrooms and three floors.
Do you think he expected to go upstairs, attack Maddie, and then go out without seeing the other girls at all? I suppose that is possible.
If he had watched that evening he would have seen that others were there, but he may have assumed they were asleep.

If he intended to only encounter one person upstairs and avoid anyone downstairs- could he have not exited the balcony? Maybe, maybe not.

I’m willing to guess he may have even broken into that home and roamed around before and left. Maybe this is what gave him the cajones to think he could go in and kill someone without being detected- and leave?

The source of intense fury that fueled his killing the others seems a mix of- fear of getting caught, fear of failure, and fury that someone messed up his well thought out plan. When his adrenaline kicked in- he went nuts. And in 15 min or less he was in and out- four dead.

IMO

 

[Miss Poovy]

I hate this play of semantics. Nobody suggested he went there to sip tea, he went there to kill. But his plan obviously went wrong and I seriously, seriously doubt he intended to kill 4 people. What happened after Maddie was basically him improvising on spot, not some well planned mass killing. He killed Kaylee because she woke up and fought him, he chased after Xana because he was startled and didn't want to get caught. He killed Ethan because he saw him as a threat. He didn't kill Dylan or Bethany because they were not seen as immediate threats. Dylan didn't react outwardly to what he did so he ignored her. If she did what Xana did, she'd have ended the same way. If Xana reacted in a similar way to Dylan, he most likely would have simply left. The point is past his initial plan of killing Maddie or Kaylee upstairs, this was a thoroughly disorganized attack. He like Xana entered a fight or flight response. That's not an excuse of his actions, quite the opposite. He chose to kill rather than run away. He could have easily abandoned his plan (unless there is something we don't know) and left when he found Maddie and Kaylee in the same bed, but he didn't. He was fully committed to what he wanted to do.

As far as him being 'threatened' by them, it's not about a physical threat, it's the threat of being caught. If in an alternate scenario he left Xana alive, she'd have called 911 and he'd be immediately caught.

'Defensive wounds' might simply be her raising her hand instictiviely to defend herself. I don't think she was in any position to fight back after the initial strike to her torso which would have rendered her pretty much helpless from the get go.

He may or may not have gone there to kill four or more people; however, he had the capacity to do so & to kill all four in an extremely violent manner. Really strange to me the police insist there’s no link to the victims, but it seems he went to a certain bedroom, so I do think it’s plausible he was only going to kill one person.

I had thought he might have been hyped up on something but based on adrenaline and his jail roommate saying he doesn’t sleep, probably not. Just takes a nap during the day. (I’m an insomniac, but I don’t ever nap, but I also haven’t killed anyone.). I think I recall his apt neighbors saying they could hearing him vacuuming during the night/early morning hours.

 

[LAborn]

I believe he pursued and attacked her because she was a now awake witness with the ability to immediately call 911. If he ignores her and just pushes past her to run out the back door to his car, he knows he can't stop and do any of the stripping of his protective gear before he jumps in his car--that would lose him valuable seconds when she would literally be on the phone with 911. That means he would have higher risk of him bringing evidence into his car. Not to mention the fact that the only way for him to exit the neighborhood is to drive directly in front of the house...what if LE is right nearby or Xana or someone else in the house run to a front window and are able to see his car and maybe even plate as he speeds away?

So, you either chase and kill the person in front of you to stop them from calling LE (if he knew that Ethan was there, he knows there's a risk she will be able to wake Ethan up and Ethan could chase after him) OR you ignore them, run out and now increase your chances of getting caught in the vicinity with forensic evidence, a knife, and a bloody coversuit.

That was how he was threatened by Xana finding him.

I fully believe Dylan escaped the same fate because 1) after having to kill Xana and Ethan all could think of was getting out of there...the risk that someone had heard and already called the police after two additional murders was now highly elevated and 2) he didn't see her...whether it was because of the Good Times light making it harder to see her or literally tunnel vision from adrenaline.

Great analysis.

 

[Miss Poovy]

I wouldn't say shot himself in the foot. Either way the rest of us were waiting on bated breath as he did every interview. We are all were hoping he'd say something.

Also, the police department didn’t have a communications person & the police chief stated that was not one of his skills & he did a poor job in the beginning. I think this lack of information was the catalyst for SG’s actions & then it seems like he developed relationships with journalists. I feel empathy for SG, especially with the brutality of what BK did to his daughter. I’m in the minority, but personally I think BK should have been FRIED, or in Idaho’s DP’s penalty process ripped to death by bullets.