GUILTY PLEA DEAL ACCEPTED - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #114

[Megnut]

But no one knew he was a "madman." I guess I'm confused on why this lawsuit was filed, but also why you were expecting it to be. Institutions get to hire/accept who they want. I'm not sure they should be held judicially liable for their choices unless there's some kind of negligence at play, and that doesn't seem to be the case. The other part to this is employment integrity in academia. Once they realized he couldn't do the job, they can't just terminate him. There are usually many layers. They have to start a performance improvement plan, which they did, and then follow that through to see how he progresses. A professor had that inkling that something was off with this guy, but if we allowed that to make the decision in cases of employment, people would get fired left and right just because someone didn't like them. There has to be objective evidence of something besides incompetence and failing to read social cues.

MOO.

Madman no, but misogynist yes. And they're shouldn't be great tolerance for that in academia. Which isn't to say the university tolerated it in BK; they were taking steps to address it, expectations were spelled out, and when he didn't meet them, he was ousted. No one had to think maybe the guy's planning to murder to recognize that make and female students alike deserve instruction that is free of discrimination. Twenty years ago, perhaps the climate was different. Twenty years from now, there should be a new different climate. This is one small way to force that change.

Not saying the university was at great fault or that they aren't responding appropriately already, just saying there is always room for improvement.

One area that comes to mind -- creating an atmosphere where victims feel free to come forward, feel they'll be taken seriously, etc. We've taken measurable strides but there's farther to go.

Universities are a perfect place to be leaders in that regard.

JMO

 

[Dotta]

Was BK adequately supervised by professors???

It took nearly students' "revolt" to start looking at him closely.

Why did female students have to suffer misogynist remarks?

And at University,
which should serve as the model for excellence,
especially in its role of providing knowledge, developing skills, and promoting societal advancement.

The first complaint should have been the last one IMO.

Period.

This is 21st century and the 1st World country.

The University's Reputation is at stake.

(By the way,
even female staff was afraid of him,
didn't one woman have to hide in a restroom when she saw him coming???
IIRC)

"Performance Improvement Plan"

I haven't noticed any improvement in this criminal's behaviour.

Ummm....
Quite the opposite.

As IDAHO4 case indicates.

JMO

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Was BK adequately supervised by professors???

It took nearly students' "revolt" to start looking at him closely.

Why did female students have to suffer misogynist remarks?

And at University,
which should serve as the model for excellence,
especially in its role of providing knowledge, developing skills, and promoting societal advancement.

The first complaint should have been the last one IMO.

Period.

This is 21st century and the 1st World country.

The University's Reputation is at stake.

(By the way,
even female staff was afraid of him,
didn't one woman have to hide in a restroom when she saw him coming???
IIRC)

"Performance Improvement Plan"

I haven't noticed any improvement in this criminal's behaviour.

Ummm....
Quite the opposite.

As IDAHO4 case indicates.

JMO

Well, in the United States, it doesn't work like that. You can't just fire someone or expel someone just like that. There have be to be efforts made to give feedback and watch for improvement. There are a lot of misogynists out there, but the laws protect their rights to express themselves from the government and when you're talking a state school, the line is blurred. Universities don't tend to police speech or attitudes except in extreme cases. This was his first semester, so it makes sense that nothing was done until the complaints came rolling in. It seems, from what we know, WSU acted according to the law.

MOO.

 

[Dotta]

Well, in the United States, it doesn't work like that. You can't just fire someone or expel someone just like that. There have be to be efforts made to give feedback and watch for improvement. There are a lot of misogynists out there, but the laws protect their rights to express themselves from the government and when you're talking a state school, the line is blurred. Universities don't tend to police speech or attitudes except in extreme cases. This was his first semester, so it makes sense that nothing was done until the complaints came rolling in. It seems, from what we know, WSU acted according to the law.

MOO.

Let's see how the story of the lawsuit will unfold.

I am very curious.



I will certainly follow it CLOSELY.

 

[LinasK]

I spoke with a friend about this. Apparently more information would be accessible from WSU through the documentation process of filing a lawsuit. They may be less interested in financial gain and more in the red flags and reported incidents. Could this student have been stopped? I don't think that's the only issue. Perhaps more transparency at the college level from both universities is what the families are after. JMOO

Doubtful, even if they had fired/expelled him sooner, I still think he would have killed whether in Idaho, Washington, or PA. It just would have sped up his timeline.

 

[LinasK]

It's all about the conversation. No one loses if universities revisit their standards and procedures. No one loses if campuses provide greater transparency, increased reporting/responding.

It's how change happens.

Colleges didn't get security stations overnight (not sure what they're called, blue-lit buttons on campuses to alert campus security). Anything that inspires a climate of safety, taking seriously, etc, can only be a good thing. No more minimizing unacceptablw behavior. For example, the very phrase "peeping Tom" implies a harmlessness that it's not.

IMO the university doesn't have to have any actual liability in order to take a lawsuit seriously. If the end result is any kind of change for the better, that'll be the win they're seeking.

JMO

Those calls boxes were installed on many campuses for safety on-campus. Thing is- he committed his crimes off-campus, and out of state (even though it was only 10 miles away).

 

[Megnut]

Those calls boxes were installed on many campuses for safety on-campus. Thing is- he committed his crimes off-campus, and out of state (even though it was only 10 miles away).

I'm just saying that a hard conversation led to those call boxes.

We just can't give up calling for change... until woman can go for a run, people can sleep safely in their beds, children can go to school without fear of gunfire, inappropriate behavior is called out, victims are believed, etc, etc....

How I wish BK was the last of his kind...

JMO

 

[Cedars]

I'm just saying that a hard conversation led to those call boxes.

We just can't give up calling for change... until woman can go for a run, people can sleep safely in their beds, children can go to school without fear of gunfire, inappropriate behavior is called out, victims are believed, etc, etc....

How I wish BK was the last of his kind...

JMO

IMO, a multimillion dollar lawsuit is only going to shut down all 'conversations', since anything the university says will be used against them in the suit.

Why doesn't the family go after the producers and purveyors of the violent p**n he consumed?

 

[Betty P]

Madman no, but misogynist yes. And they're shouldn't be great tolerance for that in academia. Which isn't to say the university tolerated it in BK; they were taking steps to address it, expectations were spelled out, and when he didn't meet them, he was ousted. No one had to think maybe the guy's planning to murder to recognize that make and female students alike deserve instruction that is free of discrimination. Twenty years ago, perhaps the climate was different. Twenty years from now, there should be a new different climate. This is one small way to force that change.

Not saying the university was at great fault or that they aren't responding appropriately already, just saying there is always room for improvement.

One area that comes to mind -- creating an atmosphere where victims feel free to come forward, feel they'll be taken seriously, etc. We've taken measurable strides but there's farther to go.

Universities are a perfect place to be leaders in that regard.

JMO

Agree completely. Today, Universities are under extreme pressure to cease anti-discrimination programs, facing heavy fines and loss of government funding. Let’s hope they can continue positive efforts to protect staff and students from dangerous people like BK.

 

[Dotta]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1991109222084280573

" 'We filed this lawsuit
to seek accountability and transparency from Washington State University',

the Goncalves family said in a statement.

'Our goal is to understand what went wrong,
to ensure that no other family endures the same tragedy,
and to honor the memory of those who were lost.
We trust the legal process to uncover the truth'.

Gray filed tort notices on behalf of the Goncalves family,
as well as the Laramie family
— Mogen’s mother and stepfather —
against WSU in May 2023.

The action reserved the families’ right to seek civil damages
if they eventually decided to sue.

It is not yet clear
whether any of the other victims’ families plan to join the Goncalveses’ civil lawsuit
or separately sue WSU."

 

[Dotta]

"Goncalves family
sues WSU over Bryan Kohberger's troubling behavior before murders.



Goncalves family
is suing Washington State University,
seeking accountability and transparency
regarding concerning behaviors exhibited by Kohberger before the murders.

Complaints from classmates and faculty against Kohberger include:
- stalking,
- spatially trapping,
- staring,
- and aggression,
ultimately leading to faculty being escorted to cars and mandatory behavioral training for graduate students.

A tally board was kept in a student office
to track Kohberger’s discriminatory comments and late arrivals,
some female students avoided being alone with him,
and emails were sent with 911 subject lines expressing nervousness about his presence.

13 separate complaints were filed against Kohberger,
who was fired from his teaching assistant position at WSU for 'behavioral issues'.

The Gonvalves family could be using the lawsuit's discovery process
to gain access to university records,
some of which are protected by FERPA laws,
similar to HIPAA regulations."

Goncalves family sues WSU over Bryan Kohberger's troubling behavior before murders

The Goncalves family is suing Washington State University, the school Bryan Kohberger attended when he killed their daughter, Kaylee Goncalves, and three of her

idahonews.com

 

[Dotta]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1991273714155978765

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

IMO after reading the latest about the significance of the apparent ‘plea’ deal for the convicted murderer and whether or not he could profit from his crimes at some point, what was perceived as his interest IIRC to live in infamy from his actions, and his desires to be known for that……. IMO I rather that this convicted murderer fade into obscurity.

Remove the cameras. Remove the possible interviews. The possible questions.

Focus rather on the victims that were lost in this matter and any things their families might want or might not want publicized in this matter.

IMO I don’t believe there is any more that needs to be heard from the convicted murderer or his representatives or counsel. MOO

 

[Tragg]

Perhaps the lawsuit will result in greater awareness and accountability. Stalking, taken seriously. It is IMO a gateway crime.

JMO

Hindsight is always 20/20. This lawsuit is an abuse of legal process and should be dismissed with an award of attorney fees against the plaintiffs and a referral to the bar association requesting disciplinary action against their attorneys.

 

[Megnut]

Hindsight is always 20/20. This lawsuit is an abuse of legal process and should be dismissed with an award of attorney fees against the plaintiffs and a referral to the bar association requesting disciplinary action against their attorneys.

That is certainly a valid opinion, but I disagree. We don't what the university know and when they knew it, and a lawsuit is one way to uncover that.

IMO this is how policies change/grow.

If it is without merit, the judge will summarily dismiss it. Perhaps with the attorney fees charged... but if there's a modicum of merit, I can't begrudge the families pushing for answers. Transparency and accountability.

JMO

 

[Megnut]

Very short video from Brian Entin, outlining the much longer video he's putting out, regarding the victim families' lawsuit against WSU. Sounds like there's quite a paper trail of police reports against BK.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I'm just saying that a hard conversation led to those call boxes.

We just can't give up calling for change... until woman can go for a run, people can sleep safely in their beds, children can go to school without fear of gunfire, inappropriate behavior is called out, victims are believed, etc, etc....

How I wish BK was the last of his kind...

JMO

In theory, you're correct. But that also has to be balanced by decision-making that advances the conversation, and a lawsuit in a case like this, doesn't do that. Had this happened on campus, had this happened because WSU had information they didn't divulge, had this involved WSU in some way, shape, or form, I'd be all for a lawsuit for accountability and change. But when lawsuits are filed without any specific goal in mind, but just because the victims families are suffering, that's when you lose the fight. All it does is shut down conversation because no one can talk with a pending lawsuit, and once it's dismissed (as I personally believe it will be), the moment for "change" is gone.. I don't see what WSU would change in this situation anyway.

MOO.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Agree completely. Today, Universities are under extreme pressure to cease anti-discrimination programs, facing heavy fines and loss of government funding. Let’s hope they can continue positive efforts to protect staff and students from dangerous people like BK.

But this crime was not committed on campus nor was it part of some discrimination program. It was a criminal who acted on his own depravity. We just can't set a precedent that somehow universities or workplaces are responsible for the behavior of their students/employees in their private lives, off campus, off hours. That would be a horrible world to live in. If that's the precedent we set, then most of the businesses in America would go bankrupt as most killers are employed somewhere.

MOO.

 

[LinasK]

But this crime was not committed on campus nor was it part of some discrimination program. It was a criminal who acted on his own depravity. We just can't set a precedent that somehow universities or workplaces are responsible for the behavior of their students/employees in their private lives, off campus, off hours. That would be a horrible world to live in. If that's the precedent we set, then most of the businesses in America would go bankrupt as most killers are employed somewhere.

MOO.

I agree and yes it would have identified him as a stalker sooner, but that's no guarantee that it would have kept the U of Idaho students any safer. Unless it was on local news, and who knows if they even would have seen that.

 

[Chloegirl]

I think all the hubbub is about making positive changes not going back and fixing the past. Both universities should want to implement positive changes that help their students navigate better. As for the families, they are looking at the resources and learning about the stallking helping them to understand what all transpired. Blame maybe, but a thorough vetting of all the information would make them feel more whole. Whether or not we agree with it is not relevant. Much has been kept under gag they're just trying to understand. JMOO