Reality and Dreams and initialisms

[narlacat]

I personally believe that Patsy was very much 'recognized' from childhood on, but only in a way which involved beauty. And not only was she beautiful, she also got a university journalism degree. Which is why I can't quite see that Patsy did not get enough recognition from her birth family. There was no drop-dead gorgeous sister in the family whom she had to envy. In fact, it probably was Patsy who was the 'drop-dead gorgeous' sister for both Pam and Polly to be envied. In short, both beauty and intelligence would have put her very high on the totem pole in a family like the Paughs.

Imo, what ruined Patsy was not that she never got 'enough recognition', but that she could not really accept stepping back and pass the torch on to JB, who was to become the beautiful young woman which 40-year-old Patsy would never be again. The classic 'Snow White' syndrome.
Paradox: do you actually believe Patsy planned the murder of her daughter?

And that's where you get the P[am]DI theory.
Could Pam have kids?
She didn't at the time of JBR's death.
Does anyone know if she has kids now?

 

[narlacat]

Then we should discuss love.

John was once very much in love with Patsy. Love connects people in ways they are not aware of and in ways they might not even want. The union is deep and profound in the soul. Loss of love can mean loss of soul, loss of self. Self delusion is often prefered to loss of self by admitting loss of love.

To this day John lives in delusion so as not to lose himself.

Truer words never spoken.

 

[Britt]

John was once very much in love with Patsy. Love connects people in ways they are not aware of and in ways they might not even want. The union is deep and profound in the soul. Loss of love can mean loss of soul, loss of self. Self delusion is often prefered to loss of self by admitting loss of love.

To this day John lives in delusion so as not to lose himself.

That makes sense.

What is your theory on John's shirt fibers on JonBenét's underwear and crotch area?

 

[Paradox]

rashomon, I get that lack of recognition thing from books on borderline personality disorder. A parent can refuse to recognize a child's authentic, instinctual, natural sense of self and try to infuse or inculcate their own idea of who they want their child to be. The affect of this is to leave the child empty at the core. The child finds recognition and affirmation by acquiring personality traits and performing with them in structured social situations rather than responding to their inborn traits and developing those. The acquired personas of borderlines can be quite elaborate and effective but they actually have poorly developed egos and have trouble mediating their instincts and decision making.

An adult with this affliction can have a highly functioning social persona and identity based on performance while having an undeveloped inner child identity with the moral structure that goes along with immaturity.

Ironically, borderlines can suffer from lack of recognition even though they live highly visible lives because their inborn self identity is lost in childhood. Some of our most famous personalities were borderlines; Marylin Monre, James Dean, Judy Garland, Frank Sinatra were all borderlines. No amount of applause or reinentions of their careers were enough to satisfy them. They could only play to the house and have the house tell them who they were.

 

[Paradox]

As for planning: the psychology is as follows. A person can have compulsive thoughts. They can be exposed to ideas that are absorbed into the unconscious. The thoughts and ideas can be organized around a complex without going through a review process according to a sense or morality. If a person has a latent or split-off persona those thoughts and ideas can be out of the sphere of influence of the major persona. This mechanism can acquire behavior patterns that find expression through breaks with reality, simple out of character moods, possession states and fugues. People can seem to change drastically all of a sudden when in fact they have been carrying on a developing complicated inner life without notice from others. It may even look like they have been planning what they end up doing but in actuallity they are subject to compulsion and fantasy.

 

[Paradox]

What is your theory on John's shirt fibers on JonBenét's underwear and crotch area?

That info came out after I stopped reading or I never paid enough attention to it to remember. If that info was in PMPT or Thomas' book or Wecht's book I missed it.

At any rate, I don't think John was molesting JonBenet and I think he had nothing to do with any of until Patsy screamed and handed him the note. His worst contributions were finding the body at 11 am and keeping quiet, then bringing up the body and playing victim.

 

[Britt]

At any rate, I don't think John was molesting JonBenet and I think he had nothing to do with any of until Patsy screamed and handed him the note. His worst contributions were finding the body at 11 am and keeping quiet, then bringing up the body and playing victim.

This is what I think, too (most of the time), but I'm having trouble fitting those fibers into the scenario. Might she have used his shirt to implicate him? Might she have enlisted his help very late in the process, say after she'd written the note and before the 911 call?

Anyway, again, fascinating thread.

 

[rashomon]

At any rate, I don't think John was molesting JonBenet and I think he had nothing to do with any of until Patsy screamed and handed him the note. His worst contributions were finding the body at 11 am and keeping quiet, then bringing up the body and playing victim.

Jmpo, but I find it hard to believe that Pasty with her hysterical personality structure would have been able to organize all that time-consuming staging without any help from John.
And since there exists evidence of chronic sexual abuse on JB, who was her abuser?

 

[Paradox]

It has been reported that John was overheard saying he found the body at about 11 am. I believe that.

And what people see as staging of a crime for police, I see as things done by Patsy that were part of her psychotic fantasy, they had meaning for her.

I look at the ransom note and what was done to JonBenet's body as having the same characteristics and serving the same purpose for Patsy. The ransom note is full of things that cannot be taken at face value. I therefor say those things are symbolic and only the perp knows what they mean.

The same thing goes for the condition of the body, things that cannot be taken at face value are part of the psychotic language known only to the perp.

 

[Eagle1]

Jmpo, but I find it hard to believe that Pasty with her hysterical personality structure would have been able to organize all that time-consuming staging without any help from John. And since there exists evidence of chronic sexual abuse on JB, who was her abuser?

Since seeing the pictures of PR's rings turned backward, I realize anything's possible, and these people weren't exactly like most of us, who'd have been floored completely.

But we have an example of a madman making others murderously angry, at total strangers, "The Manson Family", and there's a prediction some would feel is mythology, I realize, which I was reminded of when Paradox (I think) commented somewhere on Psalm 35 meaning Satan. Anyone remember what thread that's in? I want to be sure to read comments. There are lots of Satan henchmen, madmen, able to mind-control others simply by being so extreme they catch them off guard. Regarding One especially, spreading hatred in the house of his God, (perverting scriptures maybe to say human sacrifice?) just before Armagedden in the Middle East, peoples' minds are overblown before him. Then there's the reverse-speech thing, which I'm not saying I believe in but what a coincidence, "So now we must hate you." From a book "JonBenet Knew Evil Love", I guess. Following Jesus meant putting Him first before even our loved ones, but translaters erred a lot by saying "hate" them,semantics, because Jesus is love, wouldn't have said hate anyone ever, I have to mention because could be case-related.