Australia Samantha Murphy, 51, last seen leaving her property to go for a run in the Canadian State Forest, Ballarat, 4 Feb 2024 *Arrest* #13

[SouthAussie]

So, you're saying that when the police have no evidence, a perp should somehow be forced to tell details - and somehow forced to tell the truth?

IMO, that's not possible in any modern legal system. In systems that use torture, a full confession might be obtained, but it may not be true.

JMO

No, that is not what I am saying. There was obviously evidence enough to bring him to trial. He was days away from that when a plea deal was agreed.

I am saying that what Borce said (about how he 'manslaughtered' Karen) is unknown to the public. That whatever Statement of Facts that was agreed is not public information.


Negotiating an Agreed Statement of Facts

Even where the charge itself remains the same, the prosecution may accept a more accurate or balanced set of facts for sentencing. This can significantly affect how the court views the offending.

Plea Negotiations in Victoria: A Complete Guide for Accused People and Their Families

 

[Cedars]

I am saying that what Borce said (about how he 'manslaughtered' Karen) is unknown to the public.

I guess my view is that's because he never said anything about that to anyone, least of all police.

And the autopsy was inconclusive, so police don't know.

JMO

 

[SouthAussie]

I guess my view is that's because he never said anything about that to anyone, least of all police.

And the autopsy was inconclusive, so police don't know.

JMO

"We don't know how you killed her because she wasn't found for 8 months, so we will accept that it was mansalughter without you explaining how it happened" ?

My impression of an Agreed Statement of Facts in a plea agreement would be about the facts of the crime. Not just 'she's dead, you killed her, and it was manslaughter'.

I tend to think that it is more that the Agreed Statement of Facts is not a public document (maybe suppressed). Otherwise journalists would get hold of it and publish the details, and that only causes more pain to the loved ones ... and maybe public questions about the appropriateness of the plea deal.

 

[JLZ]

"We don't know how you killed her because she wasn't found for 8 months, so we will accept that it was mansalughter without you explaining how it happened" ?

My impression of an Agreed Statement of Facts in a plea agreement would be about the facts of the crime. Not just 'she's dead, you killed her, and it was manslaughter'.

I tend to think that it is more that the Agreed Statement of Facts is not a public document (maybe suppressed). Otherwise journalists would get hold of it and publish the details, and that only causes more pain to the loved ones ... and maybe public questions about the appropriateness of the plea deal.

Your first paragraph: yes, that's about it (without the question mark).

An agreed statement of facts is a record of what's not in dispute, so the judge doesn't need to be looking for and assessing evidence as to those points. The accused can't be compelled to disclose anything about the crime. I believe a trial or a sentencing can go ahead without any agreed statement of facts.

And in the case of Borce Ristevski,

His conduct in disposing of Ms Ristevski’s body and the lies and deception he engaged in mean that how his wife died will never be known. What we do know is that he killed her by unlawful and dangerous act(s); put her body into the boot of her car; and disposed of her body in a remote location.

DPP v Ristevski [2019] VSCA 287 (6 December 2019)