Syringe in bottle and traces of chloroform #2

[Miss Snow]

Forgive me if this has been mentioned...Testosterone gel is often prescribed for women in Cindy's age range for libido issues. It is applied onto the forearm or thigh. The side affects may include aggression and excessive facial hair. It would not be so outlandish, given her rather "fuzzy" appearance and demeanor, to think that perhaps the Testosterone was, indeed, Cindy's. Just a thought.

 

[2goldfish]

Forgive me if this has been mentioned...Testosterone gel is often prescribed for women in Cindy's age range for libido issues. It is applied onto the forearm or thigh. The side affects may include aggression and excessive facial hair. It would not be so outlandish, given her rather "fuzzy" appearance and demeanor, to think that perhaps the Testosterone was, indeed, Cindy's. Just a thought.

:biglaugh:


neverwishedsomuchinmylifethatcindyreadsthisforum

 

[QuietStorm]

Makes sense...because the chemicals did not line up at all with the trunk odor. Good thing too, because Cindy would have claimed one of TL's friends spit in the trunk, causing it to smell like a dead body.

I have a question about the spit cup theory. Wouldn't a spit cup be loaded with DNA?

 

[QuietStorm]

Quiet Storm - these could not be gasoline additives could they? I keep thinking about KC stealing gas every ten seconds.

There is something so hinky here - to me it all looks like a plant. Let's face it, KC didn't even need duct tape to kill Caylee - she could have done it with her bare hands. And if duct tape was actual COD, why did she need a syringe and a deadly cocktail? What if that was done to set someone up and the Disney bag with syringe was originally in the black plastic bag with Caylee? KC could have put that together on the 18th, when she backed into the garage. I just don't see this as a recreational mix of any kind and whoever did it went to great trouble to make sure the needle was sealed off from the elements, ie: preserved for evidence.

(This just reminds me of the computer searches - none of the subjects researched were necessary to kill a toddler, but all of them would work well on an adult.)

If she did, I think there are three possibilities; a) she stole the needle from a friend (we all know who); b) she took the needle from home and the chemicals from home (perhaps the foodstuff is traces from Gatorade liquid) or c) she took the needle from a tattoo parlor friend hoping it would lead back to ZFG.

Frankly I think the second option makes more sense - get rid of her parents by framing them so she could inherit the house. It would certainly explain the body being right down the street. And she may have put this together a day or two later thinking she might need to CYA her CMA. Something about this just looks odd odd odd to me.

I am having the some of the same thoughts as you have expressed here. Sometimes it just seems way too complicated, but maybe we have to wade through it all to find a simple explanation. An ah-ha moment that puts it all into perspective and shows that although we all went very far to find a short answer, we did find it. That's what I'm hoping, and I think that happened with the "how much chloroform" issue.

I have a rather long post a bit back about some research on the Internet into the chemicals found in the syringe itself. Long posts can be tedious to read through but there is so much information out there to consider. So again, I might be taking the long road thought-wise to arrive just a short distance, but if the goal is truth, then OK. So here we go with another lengthy post from me. Apologies in advance.

I do lean towards the substances in the bottle including something involving fuel - a fuel additive, two-cycle engine oil, something like that. It may not make sense yet as to why it would be there or why it would be used. This is just my 'gut feeling' at the moment which can change as more information is revealed. I keep thinking if I knew what was in the bottle and syringe, it would help my 'yeah' and 'nay' lists as to its relevacy to the murder itself vs the location of the body.

I read a report on the Internet about children's exposure to the three alkanes in the syringe substance, not so much for such revealing information as for my understanding of substances that would include three alkanes together. That report can be found at http://www.tera.org/peer/VCCEP/n-alkanes/VCCEP n-Alkanes Submission Jun 17 2004 - revised.pdf and I read it to get a better understanding of alkanes.

Excerpts:

These three chemicals present an interesting VCCEP case because the production and use of these chemicals as pure chemicals and high-purity n-alkane process streams is quite small relative to the petroleum substances (i.e., kerosene, jet fuel, home heating oil, hydrocarbon solvents) that contain these n-alkanes as constituents. In addition, almost all (99+%) of the purified n-alkane production is not as single chemicals but as process streams that contain a range of n-alkanes, typically C10-C13, C12-C14, C12-C16, and C14-C16. These n-alkane process streams are consumed as closed-system chemical intermediates in the manufacture of linear alkylbenzenes (LABs), which are a chemical building block for the manufacture of detergents.

A very small volume (estimated at less than 20,000 pounds) is produced in pure form for use as laboratory reagents. There are no known consumer product applications for pure n-decane, n-undecane, and n-dodecane. There are several different types of petroleum substances that may contain these n-alkanes, including aliphatic hydrocarbon solvents (e.g. mineral spirits) and middle-distillate fuels such as kerosene, jet fuel, diesel fuel and home heating oil.

The Consumer Product Safety Commission’s (CPSC) established standards for childresistant packaging of products that contain 10% or more hydrocarbons with a viscosity less than 100 SUS at 100o F. The standard was implemented in 2002 to avoid accidentalingestion of hydrocarbons by children, which can result in chemical pneumonitis if the ingested material is aspirated into the lungs. The examples from the CPSC of household products and cosmetics covered by the packaging regulation include some baby oils; sunscreens; nail enamel dryers; hair oils; bath, body and massage oils; makeup removers;
some automotive chemicals (gasoline additives, fuel injection cleaners, carburetor cleaners); cleaning solvents (wood oil cleaners, metal cleaners, spot removers, adhesive removers); some water repellents containing mineral spirits used for decks, shoes, and sports equipment; and general-use household oil. Some of these hydrocarbon-containing products may contain decane, undecane, and dodecane.

Aliphatic hydrocarbon solvents of the mineral spirits or Stoddard solvent variety are the hydrocarbon solvents most likely to contain n-decane, n-undecane, or n-dodecane.

The oral route of exposure was quickly eliminated because other than accidental ingestion of fuel, paints or solvents, there is no opportunity to ingest normal decane, undecane, or dodecane from other sources, such as drinking water, as alkanes are essentially insoluble in water.

There were no reports found of the target chemicals being detected in food.

 

[3doglady]

Forgive me if this has been mentioned...Testosterone gel is often prescribed for women in Cindy's age range for libido issues. It is applied onto the forearm or thigh. The side affects may include aggression and excessive facial hair. It would not be so outlandish, given her rather "fuzzy" appearance and demeanor, to think that perhaps the Testosterone was, indeed, Cindy's. Just a thought.

I think what you are referring to is bio identical hormones for women. Testosterone is sometimes added in a small amount to estrogen for women. It is administered by a patch or cream to the forearm or thigh not by a syringe.

 

[butwhatif?]

Great work. I just picked one of the substances-p-cresol- and found that it's found in tobacco smoke...don't see it connected to nicotine as a product:

The p-cresol isomer has been detected in emissions from coal tar and metal refining, chemical and glass fiber manufacturing, motor vehicle exhaust, wood pulping, brewing, and tobacco smoke.

http://www.scorecard.org/chemical-profiles/html/cresols.html

The same is true with phenol...it's a component of tobacco smoke. From this article, I can see how it's seen as a component of tobacco- one that's emitted at high temperatures.

"Quinic acid and quinic acid derivatives present in tobacco are identified as important precursors of hydroquinone, catechol, and phenol."- Journal of Analytical and Applied Pyrolysis
Volume 84, Issue 2, March 2009, Pages 170-178

Was there presence of quinic acids? Need to go look. **Oh...can you provide the link back to the FBI report...it would save me time...much appreciated.** TIA

Bottom line...it's all rather disturbing.

You're correct. Most of the p-cresol references are to tobacco smoke, rather than the tobacco itself.

Keeping the following general list of possible sources in mind :

The general population may be exposed to p-cresol via inhalation of ambient air, use of tobacco products, and ingestion of food or drinking water.

IMO, there's 3 possibilities here....

1. The p-cresol is a by-product from the tobacco curing process.

American Smokeless brands like Copenhagen and Skoal first use only tobaccos that come from America. Once this tobacco is harvested it’s hung in a curing barn to dry. Once dried, a fire is built inside the curing barn and made to smolder using sawdust so the smoke fills it and flavors the tobacco.

Note that smokey wood is another source of p-cresol.

2. The p-cresol was an additive to the crystal light .(unlikely but just looking at all possibilities)

3. When the spit bottle had no lid in TL's apt, cigarette smoke made its way in there. We know they smoked inside and everything reeked of smoke.

Originally Posted by Valhall

His response:
"Without researching the exact chemical composition Copenhagen spit versus any one of the other 40+ manufacturers of dip, my initial guess would be yes, this is a spit cup."

He went on to qualify himself as to why he has experience at this...He has provided guidance in cleaning up major league baseball stadiums after games. He says, on average, there's easily 100 to 200 spit cups that have to be properly handled from a waste disposal aspect.

So I think we've nailed another one!!!

I guess I'll get party hats to go with the keg.

snipped- Thanks for going the extra mile to follow up on my theory. And give that professor of yours a big thankyou from us too.
I have the party poppers and silly string, seems that the keg is ready, and maybe for those that don't drink we can supply some cyrstal light? :wink:

 

[Tricia]

Carry on here please;

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4418571#post4418571"]Welcome our Chemist to Websleuths/Syringe in bottle and traces of chloroform #3 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]