TX TX - Chambers County, White/Blk Male (Possibly Trans Fem) 30-40, UP4242, Floral Sundress, May'86

[victoriarobinson642]

NAMUS:

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

By bringing people, information, forensic science and technology together, NamUs helps resolve cases.

www.namus.gov

Their case was originally listed as Female/Unk, but is now listed as Male/White
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Date of Discovery: May 31, 1986
Location of Discovery: Chambers County, Texas
Estimated Date of Death: 1-2 months prior
State of Remains: Mummified
Cause of Death: Unknown

Physical Description​

Estimated Age: 30-45 years old
Race: White
Sex: Male (possibly trans female or intersex)
Height: 4'11" to 5'1"
Weight: 110 to 115 lbs.
Hair: Dyed auburn, collar-length hair (with some gray).
Eye Color: Unknown
Distinguishing Marks/Features: Both ears pierced twice. Toenails painted pink.

Identifiers​

Dentals: Unknown. Unusual incisor tooth and several fillings.
Fingerprints: Unknown.
DNA: Unknown.

Clothing & Personal Items​

Clothing: White sun-dress, with a floral and leaf design in red, blue, brown and grey. A white slip; brown pantyhose and a white, size 36C bra.
Jewelry: Gold stud earring and a gold hoop earring in each ear.
Additional Personal Items: Unknown

Circumstances of Discovery​

The decedent was located beside SH 87, circa 2.3 miles east of Highway 124, near High Island, TX.

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[evilwise]

5'1" is awfully short for a bio male. I wonder why the change was made. Side determination in a DNA exclusion? Review of skeletal evidence?

 

[annemc2]

5'1" is awfully short for a bio male. I wonder why the change was made. Side determination in a DNA exclusion? Review of skeletal evidence?

Huh, yeah. Under circumstances it still says "White or Black female."

Chambers county is located SE of Houston, just for reference (i.e. to save everyone a search haha)

 

[cheemsg]

Well. TXDPS still says Female. Will see if they change it.
DNA could have turned out they were bio male. Maybe a recent exhumation.
A bio male can absolutely be 5'1.

 

[AguaFlorida2001]

Maybe this person was post-transition which contributes to the confusion surrounding their birth sex. Was hormone therapy a thing yet in the 80's?

 

[iamshadow21]

Maybe this person was post-transition which contributes to the confusion surrounding their birth sex. Was hormone therapy a thing yet in the 80's?

Very much so. Check out Julie Doe, another transgender doe, who was thought to be cisgender for many years. She'd had top surgery at the very least, and had more than likely been taking estrogen for a long time. She also died in the eighties.

As far as I know the first hormone therapies happened in Germany, in Berlin. Hirschfeld had transgender patients. The Nazis burned his work when they came to power. So, hormone therapy has been around for close to a hundred years.

 

[heartanium]

Texas DPS link - Case number U867002

Side profile of this individual

 

[Susikatze]

Very much so. Check out Julie Doe, another transgender doe, who was thought to be cisgender for many years. She'd had top surgery at the very least, and had more than likely been taking estrogen for a long time. She also died in the eighties.

As far as I know the first hormone therapies happened in Germany, in Berlin. Hirschfeld had transgender patients. The Nazis burned his work when they came to power. So, hormone therapy has been around for close to a hundred years.

Yes in the 1980s definitely. People often went overseas to countries like Thailand for transition as treatment was cheaper there than in the US and a lot of expertise and experience with no questions asked.

My theory is she was a sex worker, there is a lot of violence towards sex workers and even more so if theyre transgender. It would explain why nobody was missing her. Was there some substantial trans scene in the area in the 1980s? Worth asking around.

She could have been intersex as well, but DNA should be able to rule that out easily.

 

[Hochman]

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

By bringing people, information, forensic science and technology together, NamUs helps resolve cases.

www.namus.gov

Added April 13, 2023

 

[iamshadow21]

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

By bringing people, information, forensic science and technology together, NamUs helps resolve cases.

www.namus.gov

Added April 13, 2023
View attachment 414468

Love this new recon.

 

[Susikatze]

My guess is she was not from the US, maybe from Cuba, Brazil or the Caribbean. Short frame,multiracial and there were and are plenty of TG sexworkers from those countries working in the US.

Jmoo

 

[cheemsg]

My guess is she was not from the US, maybe from Cuba, Brazil or the Caribbean. Short frame,multiracial and there were and are plenty of TG sexworkers from those countries working in the US.

Jmoo

I don't know, the new recon looks to have more white features. This case is so sad.

 

[EmiliaRT007]

Very much so. Check out Julie Doe, another transgender doe, who was thought to be cisgender for many years. She'd had top surgery at the very least, and had more than likely been taking estrogen for a long time. She also died in the eighties.

As far as I know the first hormone therapies happened in Germany, in Berlin. Hirschfeld had transgender patients. The Nazis burned his work when they came to power. So, hormone therapy has been around for close to a hundred years.

I’m pretty sure that there was evidence she had bottom surgery too? Maybe I got that wrong.

 

[EmiliaRT007]

I don't know, the new recon looks to have more white features. This case is so sad.

She’s listed as white in Namus now.

 

[cheemsg]

She’s listed as white in Namus now.

Also sex has changed from "male" to "other" and they note "they were genetically male but identified as female" as opposed to saying bio male, maybe a legit intersex case rather than transgender?
There are some people who are intersex and won't know until the day they die. She might not have known she was genetically male at any point in her life, especially if she had a vagina.

 

[iamshadow21]

Also sex has changed from "male" to "other" and they note "they were genetically male but identified as female" as opposed to saying bio male, maybe a legit intersex case rather than transgender?
There are some people who are intersex and won't know until the day they die. She might not have known she was genetically male at any point in her life, especially if she had a vagina.

That just sounds to me like they're trying to acknowledge that she's transgender rather than implying she was intersex. That she identified as female.

(About intersex and trans as terms/labels, in general, it doesn't have to be one or the other. Some intersex people also identify as trans, some don't. It's individual, not blanket.)

MOO

 

[EmiliaRT007]

Also sex has changed from "male" to "other" and they note "they were genetically male but identified as female" as opposed to saying bio male, maybe a legit intersex case rather than transgender?
There are some people who are intersex and won't know until the day they die. She might not have known she was genetically male at any point in her life, especially if she had a vagina.

Possibly. That’s another good theory and could explain her short stature too since it’s not that common for a biological male to be 5’1”. Possibly androgen insensitivity syndrome?

 

[EmiliaRT007]

Also sex has changed from "male" to "other" and they note "they were genetically male but identified as female" as opposed to saying bio male, maybe a legit intersex case rather than transgender?
There are some people who are intersex and won't know until the day they die. She might not have known she was genetically male at any point in her life, especially if she had a vagina.

I noticed she was listed as “other” which made me quite curious. I’ve never seen a UID listed under that category. Usually UIDs who are thought to be transgender are listed under their bio sex. I have seen it on MPs, listed as “other”. There’s only a few but they are all transgender or gender variant.

Edit: I technically have an intersex condition myself (Trisomy X) and didn’t even know until I was 15, so you make a great point. Sometimes it’s hard to detect. I look like a normal female, I developed like a normal female, I’m genetically female, just I have and not XX.

 

[BrownBear]

3 Exclusions
MP17582 Bruce Walls 08/25/1980 Palm Beach FL
MP2035 Thomas Scott 08/23/1984 Tarrant TX
MP974 Patricia Schmidt 06/04/1985 Henrico VA

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

 

[EmiliaRT007]

3 Exclusions
MP17582 Bruce Walls 08/25/1980 Palm Beach FL
MP2035 Thomas Scott 08/23/1984 Tarrant TX
MP974 Patricia Schmidt 06/04/1985 Henrico VA

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

That’s good. I don’t really have any suggestions, I will do a little digging and see what I can find.