TX - Five Yates children drowned, Houston, 20 June 2001 *Insanity*

[curious1]

I disagree with you...His new life is probably much easier, but to an ultra-conservative Christian man, those children were arrows in his quiver...his Christian legacy. I don't get the impression he was willing to take over their day-to-day care and education, but I don't see him as relieved to be rid of THEM.

I also get the impression he may be relieved of his own insanity going to a "normal" church instead of following that wacko.

I hear what you are saying. I grew up a southen baptist and the macho crap that came with it. There were 2 men in my church over the years that just walked away from their families because as the put it 'they just didn't want to be bothered with it'. One of the guys had 4 sons and was sooooo proud of the fact that 'he only made men'. One day he just decided that he did not want to be a Daddy there was just too much responsiblity.

 

[Kim Ii]

DEANWS,

"I know the treating doctor and I do not believe him to be the cause. I also know some private details and that Rusty lives in a macho fantasy world. What he writes to you does not necessarily reflect the true facts but rather the "facts" according to "his" perception of the "Rusty way of thinking." There is sooo much more to this case than what meets the eye...and I am not going by strictly details released in the press."
__________________

But I didn't say what Rusty said to me. In fact, I think I stated that I didn't recall much, if any, of what Rusty stated to me. He did not share with me ANY facts of the case, that much I'd remember if he had. It was more or less, from me, that I felt compassion for both he and Andrea, that I understood what a painfully hard time this must have been for the two of them, and I wished them all the best.

Rusty's response was more or less, "Thank you." (A bit more, but just words in general, thanking me for writing to him.) He, I'm quite sure, would never, ever have divulged any so-called facts of this case to me, a complete stranger.

Of course there is much more to this case than meets the eye. My aunt and uncle, who live in League City, are somewhat familiar with this case. (More a 'friends who have friends' who knew the Yates kind of thing. Back yard gossip if you ask me.)

They, too, have mentioned a few asides, tidbits if you will, as to what MAY have happened in the Yates household, but of course, that's all pure speculation and conjecture.

Blaming Rusy won't bring those beautiful children back. If Rusty has to answer to anyone, it will be with his Maker in the end, won't it? But I know he loved those children. I think he loved Andrea very much as well. What type husband he may or may have not, been...I don't really know.

If truth be told, there is probably a little bit of blame to be passed around to everyone involved in this sad, sad ordeal.

But I would NEVER wish ill will on anyone after that horrendous tragedy. I would hope that any mistakes Rusty is aware he made during his marriage and life with Andrea are at best, NOT repeated.

And again, I wish him all the very best. His wife, from what I viewed in TV video photos, was/is beautiful. They have now been blessed with a beautiful son. I hope they have a happy life together.

 

[Kim Ii]

Here is a link re: Andrea Yates. http://www.karisable.com/andreayates.htm

You know, I've read so many stories/blogs about this case and most, if not all, disparaged Rusty. So many, including myself, felt anger over the fact that Rusty didn't seem to want to acknowledge that anything was truly wrong with Andrea. Some would probably call that DENIAL.

It's apparent that Rusty should have seen the signs more clearly than he did. Clearly, BOTH Andrea and Rusty were misguided with some of their religious beliefs, which translated into doing some fairly 'different' lifestyle choices (like living behind a mall in a trailer, in order to give up their 'materialistic' lifestyle).

I think there were many mitigating factors here, and ultimately, all of those factors culminated into this horrible tragedy. Religious overtones, lifestyle choices, mental health/instability, lack of intervention, denial...all played into the final outcome of this really sad story.

I don't think it really serves to start blaming one single individual in this case. That's just my opinion, but I did read up on quite a bit on this case when it was all over the news/TV, etc.

I don't know what real mental state Rusty was in, either. Denial can be a tricky thing. I don't know if Rusty truly understood what was right in front of his eyes...something tells me he just didn't GET IT at the time. And clearly, his religious views (or at least some of them), didn't help. Did that contribute to his seeming lack of perception? Could be...I don't know.

American Society has a long, long way to go in understanding mental health issues and how to treat them. It's usually a hit and/or miss with medications and the stigma, alone, contributes to the lack of understanding and compassion so many have toward the mentally ill patient.

I know. My mother was mentally ill and to watch that beautiful woman slide from a wonderfully vivacious and charismatic woman, to the woman she was at the end, was just heartbreaking. She divorced my father after 32 years of marriage. Until her gradual decline, I had always, always thought she loved my father very much; I thought they had had the most wonderful marriage. So did my sister. We ALL did.

The truth of the matter was, there was a lot more going on with her than we realized. Until it was too late.

That's why I guess I'm trying to really stay objective as it relates to Rusty here. I know how horribly difficult it was for my Dad to come to grips with what was happening to my Mother. It was horrendous to watch what my Mother's decline did to my Dad. He had loved her so much.

HOPEFULLY...Rusty will have learned a few much needed lessons in this next go around.

 

[XcomSquaddie]

Of course there is much more to this case than meets the eye.

No, there isn't. It's fairly simple actually.

A wife with extreme mental problems murdered her children. Her husband had every opportunity to help her and save the children. He chose not to. End of story.

Blaming Rusy won't bring those beautiful children back.

Neither will supporting him.

If Rusty has to answer to anyone, it will be with his Maker in the end, won't it?

For his sake, I hope God is in a real forgiving mood on that day.

But I know he loved those children.

How can you say that?

IF he loved them he would have never LEFT THEM with her.

I think he loved Andrea very much as well.

Yeah, until the "worse" part of "for better or worse" came along. She got sick and he checked out on her and the kids. Oh, wait, I said that wrong. He helped her get sick, then checked out on her and the kids.

What type husband he may or may have not, been...I don't really know.

I think it's fairly obvious.

If truth be told, there is probably a little bit of blame to be passed around to everyone involved in this sad, sad ordeal.

No. There. Is. Not.

Who else would you blame?
The doctors?
His mother?

There are two people to blame for this. Andrea and Rusty. Her guilt is obvious.
However:

He set up the religious circumstances that contributed to her madness.
He encouraged her to keep having children.
He ignored the advice of medical professionals.
He placed his macho attitudes and feelings over her and the childrens needs.

He left the children alone with her unattended.

While Andrea committed the crimes, he may as well have helped fill up the tub.

 

[booradley]

No, there isn't. It's fairly simple actually.

A wife with extreme mental problems murdered her children. Her husband had every opportunity to help her and save the children. He chose not to. End of story.

Neither will supporting him.



For his sake, I hope God is in a real forgiving mood on that day.



How can you say that?

IF he loved them he would have never LEFT THEM with her.

Yeah, until the "worse" part of "for better or worse" came along. She got sick and he checked out on her and the kids. Oh, wait, I said that wrong. He helped her get sick, then checked out on her and the kids.

I think it's fairly obvious.



No. There. Is. Not.

Who else would you blame?
The doctors?
His mother?

There are two people to blame for this. Andrea and Rusty. Her guilt is obvious.
However:

He set up the religious circumstances that contributed to her madness.
He encouraged her to keep having children.
He ignored the advice of medical professionals.
He placed his macho attitudes and feelings over her and the childrens needs.

He left the children alone with her unattended.

While Andrea committed the crimes, he may as well have helped fill up the tub.

:clap:

 

[sherri79]

No, there isn't. It's fairly simple actually.

A wife with extreme mental problems murdered her children. Her husband had every opportunity to help her and save the children. He chose not to. End of story.

Neither will supporting him.



For his sake, I hope God is in a real forgiving mood on that day.



How can you say that?

IF he loved them he would have never LEFT THEM with her.

Yeah, until the "worse" part of "for better or worse" came along. She got sick and he checked out on her and the kids. Oh, wait, I said that wrong. He helped her get sick, then checked out on her and the kids.

I think it's fairly obvious.



No. There. Is. Not.

Who else would you blame?
The doctors?
His mother?

There are two people to blame for this. Andrea and Rusty. Her guilt is obvious.
However:

He set up the religious circumstances that contributed to her madness.
He encouraged her to keep having children.
He ignored the advice of medical professionals.
He placed his macho attitudes and feelings over her and the childrens needs.

He left the children alone with her unattended.

While Andrea committed the crimes, he may as well have helped fill up the tub.

very very well said.

 

[philamena]

No, there isn't. It's fairly simple actually.

A wife with extreme mental problems murdered her children. Her husband had every opportunity to help her and save the children. He chose not to. End of story.

I only posted a snip of your response to save space but had to say you got it:clap: :clap: :clap: right!

Rusty's butt:behindbar should have been locked up.

 

[sandraladeda]

I wish people would stop torturing this poor man. He obviously LOVED his wife & children and was a positive thinker-- who never give up hope that his wife would be well and normal. And he OBVIOUSLY was not secretly hoping that his wife would kill their children.....!!! It's not like he could predict the future and certainly was not expecting or thinking that the absolute worst scenario would happen....
If he could go back and forsee the future he obviously would NOT have left his wife alone with the kids, now would he? Surely he has gone through enough hell beating himself up with the 'what ifs' of the situation. God, it's not like he drove drunk and killed a bunch of people or beat his children to death or starved them. Leave the guy alone already. He's trying to live his life and do the right thing and he has every right to have a family... he seemed like a great dad, and he deserves the chance to do it again.

Remember that Andrea was not some helpless victim who was kept at home with a gun to her head. If she REALLY wanted to have more of a life outside the home, she should have SAID SO and maybe they could have come to a compromise. But there are plenty of women who DO want to stay home, and plenty of men who want wives like that... and there's nothing wrong with that if that's what they both want. So people need to get a clue and quit judging this guy. What's done is done and it's too late for that.... hindsight is 20/20.

That being said.. sure there may have been some denial involved.. no one wants to believe their spouse is seriously mentally ill, and he hoped that being with her children and being at home would help her be well. He probably did not know, or did not WANT to understand,, the extent of her illness. Also, she seemed fine sometimes. Mental illness can be very mercurial. So give Rusty a break. He did not intentionally wish any harm to his children!!

I am glad you have the courage and the compassion to post these comments. I feel much as you do - the man has lost everything, and I am sure that not a day goes by that he is not tortured by what happened, and the "what ifs", and "if onlys", had he done something different.

It is easy but unfair to stand back and judge a situation we have not lived. The reality is that if one of our loved ones slipped into a severe depression or some other mental illness, we are not necessarily equipped to know exactly what to do. Sometimes a loved one gets a little worse, then gets a little better. it is natural to feel hopeful when those upswings occur. It is natural to feel helpless, or ill-equipped to get them the help they need. It is just inconceivable to think that they will one day drown the children!

I have inlaws who are doctors and lawyers, and even a psych nurse, and yet mental illness in that family (a severe anorexic, an alcoholic, a manic depressive) went to very extreme conditions before anyone did anything. Even people who should have been most equipped to address the problems sat back and worried, pondered, discussed (should we meddle? She seems to have gained a little weight. He seems to be back on track. She seems to be over that episode. Etc.)

It's also difficult to reach out for help for oneself. I went through a depression a number of years ago. I thought "I must be depressed, yes, I am sure it is depression", but then, "what to do about it?" Who do you tell? Luckily, I finally went to my family doctor for an unrelated ailment, and she read the signs and got me on track with the help I needed.

I feel very sorry for the Yateses, both Andrea and Rusty. I think it shows great character that he continues to visit Andrea. I wish him every happiness in his new life and with his new family.

imo

 

[Kim Ii]

I am glad you have the courage and the compassion to post these comments. I feel much as you do - the man has lost everything, and I am sure that not a day goes by that he is not tortured by what happened, and the "what ifs", and "if onlys", had he done something different.

It is easy but unfair to stand back and judge a situation we have not lived. The reality is that if one of our loved ones slipped into a severe depression or some other mental illness, we are not necessarily equipped to know exactly what to do. Sometimes a loved one gets a little worse, then gets a little better. it is natural to feel hopeful when those upswings occur. It is natural to feel helpless, or ill-equipped to get them the help they need. It is just inconceivable to think that they will one day drown the children!

I have inlaws who are doctors and lawyers, and even a psych nurse, and yet mental illness in that family (a severe anorexic, an alcoholic, a manic depressive) went to very extreme conditions before anyone did anything. Even people who should have been most equipped to address the problems sat back and worried, pondered, discussed (should we meddle? She seems to have gained a little weight. He seems to be back on track. She seems to be over that episode. Etc.)

It's also difficult to reach out for help for oneself. I went through a depression a number of years ago. I thought "I must be depressed, yes, I am sure it is depression", but then, "what to do about it?" Who do you tell? Luckily, I finally went to my family doctor for an unrelated ailment, and she read the signs and got me on track with the help I needed.

I feel very sorry for the Yateses, both Andrea and Rusty. I think it shows great character that he continues to visit Andrea. I wish him every happiness in his new life and with his new family.

imo

:clap: :clap: BEAUTIFUL...

 

[sweetmop]

No, there isn't. It's fairly simple actually.

A wife with extreme mental problems murdered her children. Her husband had every opportunity to help her and save the children. He chose not to. End of story.

Neither will supporting him.



For his sake, I hope God is in a real forgiving mood on that day.



How can you say that?

IF he loved them he would have never LEFT THEM with her.

Yeah, until the "worse" part of "for better or worse" came along. She got sick and he checked out on her and the kids. Oh, wait, I said that wrong. He helped her get sick, then checked out on her and the kids.

I think it's fairly obvious.



No. There. Is. Not.

Who else would you blame?
The doctors?
His mother?

There are two people to blame for this. Andrea and Rusty. Her guilt is obvious.
However:

He set up the religious circumstances that contributed to her madness.
He encouraged her to keep having children.
He ignored the advice of medical professionals.
He placed his macho attitudes and feelings over her and the childrens needs.

He left the children alone with her unattended.

While Andrea committed the crimes, he may as well have helped fill up the tub.

This is exactly how I feel!
Very well said!:clap:

 

[sweetmop]

I only posted a snip of your response to save space but had to say you got it:clap: :clap: :clap: right!

Rusty's butt:behindbar should have been locked up.

Hey philamena:blowkiss:

I agree with you too!

 

[CarpeDiem]

I have to agree with you on this one, dean. Dr. Saeed was my daughter's doctor for a year and a half and one of the few I ever felt who really "got" her. Her primary diagnosis is pediatric bipolar with ADHD--there are a few other disorders & anxieties thrown in too. :crazy: We've since changed Dr.'s but NOT because we were unhappy with Saeed's treatment. Our only complaint about Saeed was how he managed his practice--VERY long wait times, even with an appointment, insurance billing errors, etc. However, those problems couldn't undermine the fact that I felt she got superior care from Saeed.

Between Saeed and our current Dr., she's seen 7 different psychiatrists on either an inpatient or outpatient basis. They all focused on medication management without ever really getting to know who my daughter was as a person. Both Saeed and our current Dr "know" her and work with other Dr's/therapists/family/school to make sure everyone is on the same page and treating the whole person. Mental illness is so all-encompassing and individualized that you can't just isolate and treat individual syptoms like the textbook tells you to. You have to look at everything and find a balance that works for that individual.

I'm so glad for you and your daughter that she is getting better. Glad in her case that she wasn't being treated for post partum psychosis. What a tragedy that Andrea wasn't afforded the same quality of care from the same Dr.

 

[j2mirish]

I'm so glad for you and your daughter that she is getting better. Glad in her case that she wasn't being treated for post partum psychosis. What a tragedy that Andrea wasn't afforded the same quality of care from the same Dr.

and you know this for a fact- or it is your opinion?

 

[2sisters]

I guess I am naive, I just keep thinking how horrible it muyst be to lose 5 kids that way. But then again, he did help by turning a blind eye. It is sad all around.

 

[CarpeDiem]

and you know this for a fact- or it is your opinion?

He never read Andrea's files when she became his patient, they went back to 1999. Two weeks before the murders of the children, he took Andrea off Haldol, though she wasn't better and it was the only drug that ever worked for her psychosis. Two days before the murders, Rusty desperate took Andrea back to him because of the condition she was in, Saaed still refused the Haldol, instead increased the antidepressants and Dr. Saaed's last words to Andrea would be "Think positive thoughts".

 

[philamena]

Hey philamena:blowkiss:

I agree with you too!

:blowkiss: Hey sweetie....where you been?

 

[booradley]

He never read Andrea's files when she became his patient, they went back to 1999. Two weeks before the murders of the children, he took Andrea off Haldol, though she wasn't better and it was the only drug that ever worked for her psychosis. Two days before the murders, Rusty desperate took Andrea back to him because of the condition she was in, Saaed still refused the Haldol, instead increased the antidepressants and Dr. Saaed's last words to Andrea would be "Think positive thoughts".

Just wondering what your source is for this?

 

[eve]

He never read Andrea's files when she became his patient, they went back to 1999. Two weeks before the murders of the children, he took Andrea off Haldol, though she wasn't better and it was the only drug that ever worked for her psychosis. Two days before the murders, Rusty desperate took Andrea back to him because of the condition she was in, Saaed still refused the Haldol, instead increased the antidepressants and Dr. Saaed's last words to Andrea would be "Think positive thoughts".

Even if this is the case, I still place more blame on the "desperate" husband who left her alone that morning with their children when he trotted off to work as usual.

Eve

 

[sweetmop]

:blowkiss: Hey sweetie....where you been?

Been working alot of weird hours lately. :crazy:

I sneak in here every chance I get though and try to keep up here and there.
Hope you're doing well, philamena.:blowkiss:

 

[j2mirish]

Even if this is the case, I still place more blame on the "desperate" husband who left her alone that morning with their children when he trotted off to work as usual.

Eve

you beat me to it-