Identified! TX - Huntsville, 'Walker County Jane Doe', WhtFem 14-16, 91UFTX, 1 November 1980 - id'd November 2021 - Sherri Ann Jarvis (14)

[Slow cheetah]

Sarah - thank you so much for posting that. Also got to love the avatar

The fact that the killer used an instrument to penetrate the victim is horribly distasteful of course but as a non-professional I just don't see it as evidence of the killer being a female. It's possible of course but it's surely at least as possible that the killer harbored feelings of rage and inadequacy that prevented him from carrying out a penile penetration, or perhaps he was just a sick [insert expletive of choice] who liked that kind of thing.

I have to agree with you. I don't know why but I just cannot see this being a female killer. I have the same feeling you do about the reason why an "object" was used: the killer likely had some type of ED. Either that or he tried to rape her and was not able to get it up for whatever reason (i.e., not enough time, fear of being caught, bothered by her screaming BC you know DAMN WELL that poor little sweatheart was.) I hate to even say that BC it disgusts me & hurts my heart what some did to this young girl. But mulling things over is brainstorming.
I always wondered why Otis Toole was not looked at. I've heard the theory over &over about HLL. I have NEVER heard Toole mentioned.
I really feel like if there was a way to get hold of her autopsy report & police report it would be highly helpful. There are those of us (such as myself) who have medical backgrounds that could probably gather some clues.
I could be wrong about this. But as far as I know, a non-law enforcement person can request police/autopsy records as long as they are not sealed. I don't know the criteria of how you go about it other than you have to give a good reason, such as conducting research to write a book. I believe this is called the Freedom of Information act.

 

[Slow cheetah]

Ruled** not toldr. Sorry, was on my phone and my keyboard updated and now sucks to use.

It's ok
I don't mean to sound like a dumbass but what does IIRC mean??
Now what I did NOT catch....did you say Carl K. said that she WAS ruled out? Based on facial comparison, you said?
It was so hard to see her face on the pic from Doe Network BC it was small & kinda grainy, I don't have a computer at home so I couldn't enhance or anything; & although I do have computer access at work I am often busy so I do most everything from my phone.
I was reading over the WCJD FB page which I think Carl K. moderates (Carl if you read this you ARE AWESOME.)
From what I read, I think Carl wrote this; basically every possible match has been turned in from the DN, NamUs, wherever...to no avail. So if that's the case the only way a match could come up now if a new MP report gets uploaded to one of those websites.....

 

[Paul B.]

IIRC means If I Recall Correctly.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

I wonder if WCJD is on the DNA Doe Network's list. Now that Marcia has been identified I feel so bad for our poor angel here. She deserves to go home too

She is listed on the initial list of cases nominated to them so I would imagine hers will be take up fairly soon, within the next year or so, though it will probably depend on whether local LE are willing to work with DDP.

 

[Two for the road]

It's ok
I don't mean to sound like a dumbass but what does IIRC mean??
Now what I did NOT catch....did you say Carl K. said that she WAS ruled out? Based on facial comparison, you said?
It was so hard to see her face on the pic from Doe Network BC it was small & kinda grainy, I don't have a computer at home so I couldn't enhance or anything; & although I do have computer access at work I am often busy so I do most everything from my phone.
I was reading over the WCJD FB page which I think Carl K. moderates (Carl if you read this you ARE AWESOME.)
From what I read, I think Carl wrote this; basically every possible match has been turned in from the DN, NamUs, wherever...to no avail. So if that's the case the only way a match could come up now if a new MP report gets uploaded to one of those websites.....

I believe Tammy was brought up in this forum before and that's when Carl ruled her out based on appearances and stats not lining up.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

She is listed on the initial list of cases nominated to them so I would imagine hers will be take up fairly soon, within the next year or so, though it will probably depend on whether local LE are willing to work with DDP.

Quoting myself, I know, but it crossed my mind that if the age estimate of 14-16 is accurate she was legally a child and therefore in theory DDP might not be willing to actually take on her case. However since the circumstances surrounding her death strongly suggest a stranger killing rather than family involvement, DDP should look more favourably on her case.

They are probably going to have to evaluate this and each similar case individually, given that age estimates can be significantly awry and given that so many young people were runaways during the 1960s-1980s.

 

[Alleykins]

I was thinking that, too, Melmoth, that WCJD is on the cusp of being considered a child case.

 

[Two for the road]

I'm not sure what DDP's definition of child is though. Statistically, a child is most in danger of being murdered by their parents during the potty training years. Not so much WCJD's age range. I agree that this was more than likely a stranger killing so hopefully DDP will still take her on! But WCSD has to invite them to help and they don't seem to want to close this one.

 

[leilarose68]

I was thinking that, too, Melmoth, that WCJD is on the cusp of being considered a child case.

I imagine that DDP is talking about not taking on cases of pre-pubescent Does not just under 18... because a 16 year old can reasonably run away, a 4 year old is stuck with their parents.

Keep in mind that Buckskin Girl was thought to be and Annie Doe is currently speculated to be under 18; Annie Doe's age range starts at 14 actually. So I definitely don't think DDP would have a problem with WCJD's age.

Now that I think of it I can't really remember ever coming across a Doe that was thought to be 9-13 or so, they're either super young children/babies OR high school years at least.

EDIT: St Louis Jane is thought to have been between 8-11 but that seems like a pretty rare age range for a Jane Doe

 

[MelmothTheLost]

I'm not sure what DDP's definition of child is though. Statistically, a child is most in danger of being murdered by their parents during the potty training years. Not so much WCJD's age range. I agree that this was more than likely a stranger killing so hopefully DDP will still take her on! But WCSD has to invite them to help and they don't seem to want to close this one.

Agreed that younger children are more likely to be killed by parents or carers, but it's also possible that an older child could be killed because of invisible disabilities, such as autism or learning difficulties, which might produce challenging behaviour. If you think about Crystal Rae, there is some question about her having some form of cognitive disability because of the placement of her ears which is characteristic of several congenital syndromes, but a condition such as autism would normally be completely invisible in a body.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

I imagine that DDP is talking about not taking on cases of pre-pubescent Does not just under 18... because a 16 year old can reasonably run away, a 4 year old is stuck with their parents.

Agreed unless there are disabilities which prevent an older child doing so.

 

[leilarose68]

Agreed that younger children are more likely to be killed by parents or carers, but it's also possible that an older child could be killed because of invisible disabilities, such as autism or learning difficulties, which might produce challenging behaviour. If you think about Crystal Rae, there is some question about her having some form of cognitive disability because of the placement of her ears which is characteristic of several congenital syndromes, but a condition such as autism would normally be completely invisible in a body.

Definitely true and DDP might be more reluctant to take on Crystal Rae's case because of it. But WCJD was most likely not killed by a family member based on the circumstances so I think she's in the clear.

Elderly homicide victim Does also might have a high likelihood of having been killed by family.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

Definitely true and DDP might be more reluctant to take on Crystal Rae's case because of it.

AFAIK Crystal Rae is thought to have been in her late teens or early 20s so her age shouldn't be an issue.

 

[leilarose68]

AFAIK Crystal Rae is thought to have been in her late teens or early 20s so her age shouldn't be an issue.

Yeah I know that her age shouldn't be an issue but if she was very mentally disabled there's a higher likelihood her parents were involved in her death. Who knows. Anyway, I imagine DDP would still take on her case. I really think they're mainly avoiding Does under the age of 12 or 13 most likely.

 

[Two for the road]

Keep in mind, she was seen interacting with people in Huntsville before she was found murdered. Highly unlikely a severely mentally disabled individual would be able to ask for and follow instructions on how to get to Ellis PU. Someone with low intellectual abilities, yes (IQ in the 80s)...

I understand your point though. There are some horrible, evil, vile parents/caregivers out there that do awful things. I just don't think that's the case here.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

Keep in mind, she was seen interacting with people in Huntsville before she was found murdered. Highly unlikely a severely mentally disabled individual would be able to ask for and follow instructions on how to get to Ellis PU. Someone with low intellectual abilities, yes (IQ in the 80s)...

I understand your point though. There are some horrible, evil, vile parents/caregivers out there that do awful things. I just don't think that's the case here.

Sorry, there seems to be some confusion. My citing cognitive or similar disability was in connection with Crystal Rae, not WCJD. There has been no suggestion that the latter was disabled in any way.

 

[Springrain]

Agreed that younger children are more likely to be killed by parents or carers, but it's also possible that an older child could be killed because of invisible disabilities, such as autism or learning difficulties, which might produce challenging behaviour. If you think about Crystal Rae, there is some question about her having some form of cognitive disability because of the placement of her ears which is characteristic of several congenital syndromes, but a condition such as autism would normally be completely invisible in a body.

I think Crystal Rae also had a smaller brain cavity.

 

[crystal72]

Tammy Rose Surdam – The Charley Project
3648DFMO - Tammy Rose Surdam
Missing Person Case

I have a question and idk if you can answer but I see you on here quite often so figured you may. When a person or an unidentified is entered into nameus or doe network does it automatically do a cross reference w/dna results or anything like that?

 

[Jdart14]

Are there any aerial or other maps of the Huntsville area available for viewing. I know that I45 looked quite a bit different then but wondering what the other roads looked like as well. What was there And what was not on her assumed travel routes.

 

[carbuff]

I have a question and idk if you can answer but I see you on here quite often so figured you may. When a person or an unidentified is entered into nameus or doe network does it automatically do a cross reference w/dna results or anything like that?

Well, let me give it a try, because it's not a simple answer.

Doenetwork doesn't do any direct work; they're more of a clearinghouse for missing and unidentified cases that are listed elsewhere.

There are many databases of DNA that can be used for various purposes and all DNA tests are not the same. The human genome is huge, so any application that wants to work with it generally selects a few segments of the genome that are relevant to their study. These are the loci (singular locus) and I think there may be other names depending on what kind of work is being done and how the information is extracted. So the loci that are relevant for identification are ones that are most unique to an individual. This is the opposite of what an ancestry site is looking for; their loci are the ones that are shared across large groups (I think they're phenotypes or something like that; this is not an area I'm very familiar with). A website oriented to medical issues, like 23&me, is looking for yet another set of information. But they do all overlap some.

The law enforcement databases have to adhere to forensic standards, which means among other things more restrictive quality control on the process and standards for repeating the test to make sure it's correct. This is one of the reasons why it's sometimes such a long wait for results; a commercial DNA testing company can do hundreds of tests in the time it takes a forensic lab to do one. But the commercial DNA companies have a fairly high error rate. Forensic testing accepts basically no errors at all.

There are several databases where forensic DNA results are stored. The biggest is the FBI's CODIS database; others are the FACES lab at LSU and the big lab at University of North Texas. CODIS is primarily for law enforcement purposes and didn't used to be available for non-LE matching. NAMUS is a branch of the Department of Justice that is responsible for the missing person and unidentified and unclaimed person data. Many states have their own versions of DNA databases for state purposes and there are even some county-level ones like Los Angeles county.

Currently the UNT lab is the host for the NAMUS database and the operating software. Until a couple of years ago it was FACES. It could go somewhere else in the future but as of now, that's where it's at.

NAMUS has software that compares a given sample with all the other samples it knows about, which means searching all those other databases. There used to be issues with matches being missed because it didn't know about a database or it wasn't accessible or something. They were rare, but even rare isn't acceptable. I don't know the ins and outs of how they implemented it, but the new software supposedly deals with all those issues and I have not heard of a problem yet. It's been on line for a couple of years now, I think.

I'm gonna save this now before it disappears...