TX TX - Julie Moseley, 9, Mary Trlica, 17, Lisa Wilson, 14, Fort Worth, 23 Dec 1974 #8

[Chypre]

Does anyone have any information on what areas were swept during the initial search?

Following a trail of someone using a similar technique as Bundy (coaxing the victim to a less public secondary site). Worked backwards from the plot of the homes and the mall and then searched local newspaper archives for any large ongoing construction sites in the vicinity and was able to locate this construction project at the Service Life Center (about a 10-15min drive from the Seminary South Shopping Center). This location is very close to nearby Interstate and state highways which would make for a more convenient getaway. Would be curious to know if the site was inspected during initial search or any time since the disappearance.

(to clarify I am not thinking that this case involves Bundy, but a similar MO would make the most sense given the expectation that Rachel was in someway familiar with the assailant)

welcome

 

[Chypre]

dbm

 

[imstilla.grandma]

 

[Brightchaser47]

I was just trying to theorize what everyone's plans were for that night. If the party was at the friends and neighbors of the A family and Rachel's good friend, Renee, was going to be there then I'm wondering if Rachel had plans to be there too. TT was scheduled to bowl that night but was Rachel going to be there with him, or was she staying home, or was she going to the party or somewhere else?

RSBM
I find it interesting no one seems to know what Rachel's plans were. If they do, they haven't said. Also, TT's ex-wife claimed the girls were taking Julie along because they were babysitting her, but if that's true it was only for a couple hours. Renee was to be picked up around 3-4 pm at her grandmother's by her mother, yet Julie's mom told her to be home by 6 pm. So who was to watch Julie in that time gap, had the trio not gone missing? Would it have been Rachel or another member of Julie's family?

 

[DD Byrd]

My impression was Julie was home alone when she called her mother for permission to go with the girls. So by that reasoning, my guess is she would also have been alone when dropped off later that afternoon (before whoever else in her household got home). I'd take "be home by 6" to be about Julie being back in the house and not losing track of time at the mall, but not necessarily being with anyone at her house. It also makes sense her mother got home around 6pm from work, so she wanted Julie home when she got there.

I'm thinking now perhaps the trio got in a 2nd car at the mall thinking its driver would take Julie and Renee to their respective homes. But why? Because 2nd car driver had a female passenger, with the claim that she needed a car for her own errands either at the mall or elsewhere. So...2nd car driver takes the trio in while female passenger gets out...Rachel hands over her car keys assuming she'll see her own car and the female passenger later. I think they got in the car without fanfare looking completely normal, because it WAS normal. These people knew each other and no one was under duress...there was nothing to witness and so it wasn't. That's the basic foundation before myriad scenarios may have unfolded.

From there I think the intent WAS to bring at least Julie (and probably Renee) home, but they witnessed something. "Something" being either violence towards Rachel or they heard something said between Rachel and the driver. Or both. If it was just something said, it was incendiary enough that the driver didn't want to risk it being repeated, i.e. extraordinarily sensitive info about people/places/things. In that case, it's likely whatever was said put the driver in jeopardy and that sealed their fates. But I do still lean toward something pretty dramatic and point-of-no-return-ish to lead to the killing of a small child. So, maybe a screaming match on the way home...driver pulls over and he and Rachel go at it outside the car. Rachel goes down, and doesn't get up, perhaps she is shot. In the heat of the moment, "kill the witnesses" might be the only clear thought of the driver.

Meanwhile, the female passenger who took Rachel's car could truthfully say she didn't know what happened or where the trio ended up. In this scenario, only 5 people knew of the car switch and 3 of them are likely dead. Rachel's car may have been taken for some errands and returned later after everything hit the fan, or maybe it never moved from where she parked it. Any prints in her car would make sense. The 2nd car might have been unknowingly "borrowed" for an afternoon and returned unnoticed, or it may be underwater or buried with 3 bodies in it.

 

[Chypre]

New thread: Ask Paul Holes
I posted this about the trio.
"Thank you for your work on the Carla Walker case. If you can please share your insights into Fort Worth life at that time period that might help understand the Missing Trio case of Rachel Trlica, Renee Wilson, and Julie Mosely better.
Thank you."

 

[Chypre]

New thread: Ask Paul Holes
I posted this about the trio.
"Thank you for your work on the Carla Walker case. If you can please share your insights into Fort Worth life at that time period that might help understand the Missing Trio case of Rachel Trlica, Renee Wilson, and Julie Mosely better.
Thank you."

Paul Holes' reply:

"In the Carla Walker case I talked with investigators from 1974, I talked with friends of the Walker family, talked with current law enforcement and I got the sense that Fort Worth really was a small town or I would say had a small town feel just like many other locations across the United states. During this era I would say that it was a time of mostly innocence. Teenagers were allowed to go out at night party out in the middle of nowhere and at most were expected to be home by a certain time. The public was generally ignorant of the number of predators that actually existed during this time frame.

Though the missing trio occurred during the day I believe the "naive" public in Fort Worth possibly contributed to a lack of witnesses in this particular case. The girls were at a shopping mall and maybe were seen with an offender or multiple offenders but the other shoppers didn't pay attention. Hopefully there can be some progress made on this case as these families need to get their loved ones back."

 

[Brightchaser47]

I concede the girls were likely killed and there are people who know something, but remain silent.
There have been more than enough eyes on this case through the years for it to have been solved. The ONLY reason the trio haven't been found imo is because a higher-ranking LEO was responsible and loyalty to (and fear of) a family of cops apparently matters more than justice for Rachel, Renee, and Julie.
The girls' bodies are probably in Benbrook Lake, entombed in concrete or a wrecked car from a salvage yard. When they are found, I think people who have been silent for 5 decades will be willing to talk. May this be the year-- it's been long enough.
All jmo

 

[Olivier La Buse]

I concede the girls were likely killed and there are people who know something, but remain silent.
There have been more than enough eyes on this case through the years for it to have been solved. The ONLY reason the trio haven't been found imo is because a higher-ranking LEO was responsible and loyalty to (and fear of) a family of cops apparently matters more than justice for Rachel, Renee, and Julie.
The girls' bodies are probably in Benbrook Lake, entombed in concrete or a wrecked car from a salvage yard. When they are found, I think people who have been silent for 5 decades will be willing to talk. May this be the year-- it's been long enough.
All jmo

Absolutely. There might be numerous accounts being pushed as the "official version" of the events, beyond what is readily apparent. It’s essential that we gather more insights about the key players involved in this situation.

 

[flamingNora]

Thank you for your post!
FYI:
There was a huge traveling Circus in the mid 70's which entertained audiences whose travels include Glen Burnie, Maryland- Sept 74, Arlington, Texas- Jan 74'. Also in the later 70's traveling to Austin Texas -Feb 75 and Garland Texas- Nov 75.
(To travel from the Seminary South Shopping Mall, now La Gran Plaza de Fort Worth from Arlington Stadium (AT&T Stadium) drive 14-15 miles on I-30 W and I-30 E.)

Perhaps Lloyd L. Welch also traveled with this circus as a worker or ride operator, with LLW's known whereabouts also including:
January 9, 1974 Austin, Texas
March 25, 1975 Wheaton Plaza in Wheaton, Maryland
April 1, 1975. 4714 Baltimore Avenue in Hyattsville, Maryland

Answer: Circus Vargas
There still is interest, after 50 years, to obtain more information for the Missing Fort Worth Trio's families as you know.

 

[FWTrioDoc]

I'm behind and trying to catch up. I've been reading/listening, etc. as fast as I can. I apologize as I'm sure this has been tackled ad nauseam.

To be clear:
- either the FW Police, FBI or Texas Rangers have the envelope and letter and have for a number of years?
- There were DNA tests run on the envelope and the hope was they matched one of five suspects that FWPD had narrowed in on?
- It would seem none was a match as nothing has happened since?
- To anyone's knowledge, has any genetic genealogical research been done on the results of the DNA tests run by FWPD?

Thank you all for your patience and tireless work over the years.

 

[Brightchaser47]

I'm behind and trying to catch up. I've been reading/listening, etc. as fast as I can. I apologize as I'm sure this has been tackled ad nauseam.

To be clear:
- either the FW Police, FBI or Texas Rangers have the envelope and letter and have for a number of years?
- There were DNA tests run on the envelope and the hope was they matched one of five suspects that FWPD had narrowed in on?
- It would seem none was a match as nothing has happened since?
- To anyone's knowledge, has any genetic genealogical research been done on the results of the DNA tests run by FWPD?

Thank you all for your patience and tireless work over the years.

As far as I know, FWPD Crime Lab last had custody of the letter/envelope. It was allegedly undergoing testing/analysis around 2000-2001. During that time the lab was shut down amid controversy over lab practices (proper licensing protocols not being followed, etc). The ONLY two facts to emerge since then are 1) the DNA on the letter/envelope don't match anyone known/suspected to be connected with the case and 2) absolutely NO ONE-- professional or otherwise-- has been permitted anywhere near the letter/envelope for any reason. It is highly suspected that this is because they were lost or destroyed during testing.

 

[FWTrioDoc]

Thanks you guys for jumping in so quickly. I'm gonna keep asking until you guys get sick of me . My next round has a lot more to do with understanding the people and environments involved and I'm trying to put together more concise all in one place character studies, if you will. So much of the early reporting and reporting for a long period of time really centered on a timeline of a few key events but family life/home environment seems to be something that hasn't really started fleshing out until the last 10 or so years, which was a huge oversight in my opinion when looking at possible motives.

My questions right now are around Cotton Arnold. It seems like things are surfacing that he may not have been the most upstanding character so is there any sort of definitive biography of him and has there ever been any sort of criminal background check circulated about him?

Additionally the range on Rachel seems to be wide from happy/upstanding to more shady dealings closer to Debra, to possible assaults to marriage of convenience (finance). Is there a good, semi-substantiated picture of Rachel and would include any sort of medical records to corroborate some claims made about her prior to marriage such as being assaulted, etc.?

I just feel like having biographies on some of the key players that are semi comprehensive could do a lot to give insights into motivations and actions and I'm having trouble finding them.

If there are key articles, posts or large chunks, that is great to as I'll pull them together to try to build the bios but thinking of starting with the Arnold family particularly parents, Debra, Rachel and then moving over to Tommy could be really instructive to look at things that way. Maybe it's already been done. Thanks everyone.

 

[FWTrioDoc]

Has there ever been a more thorough deep dive into Cotton's friends or workers from the garage, CB club and racing and what those people were like? There are podcasts the mention Billy Simpson but that connection seems loose and I'm not clear if that was a relationship between Billy and Cotton. Additionally curious about Tommy's place in those relationships with him working/possibly being part owner of one of those garages. I'm trying to get a picture of family culture and environment and I'm working off that idea of "those you surround yourself with are a reflection of who you are" so I want to understand that for Cotton and Fran. I'm also interested in Cotton's childhood if there is any info done on that. I'm digging but if someone else has already done it, I'd love to take a look at it. Thanks,

 

[Brightchaser47]

My questions right now are around Cotton Arnold. It seems like things are surfacing that he may not have been the most upstanding character so is there any sort of definitive biography of him and has there ever been any sort of criminal background check circulated about him?

RSBM
He died mere months after the girls went missing, so if he was ever involved in criminal activity, it wasn't pursued. He reportedly had a temper and wasn't as successful in business as his older brother was (jmo). However, afaik, he's never actually been linked to any specific criminal activity.

 

[Brightchaser47]

Has there ever been a more thorough deep dive into Cotton's friends or workers from the garage, CB club and racing and what those people were like? There are podcasts the mention Billy Simpson but that connection seems loose and I'm not clear if that was a relationship between Billy and Cotton. Additionally curious about Tommy's place in those relationships with him working/possibly being part owner of one of those garages. I'm trying to get a picture of family culture and environment and I'm working off that idea of "those you surround yourself with are a reflection of who you are" so I want to understand that for Cotton and Fran. I'm also interested in Cotton's childhood if there is any info done on that. I'm digging but if someone else has already done it, I'd love to take a look at it. Thanks,

JMO, but I don't think there was any connection between Billy Simpson and CA other than racing. Rachel's husband was also a racer. This would have been common ground for them.
Cotton and Fran were from Marshall, Texas (so was the second P.I.). Some of the Arnold clan were known to be rather violent (per old news articles). In his youth, Cotton and his older brother Kelly frequented Fort Worth's seedier spots (such as Old Jacksboro Hwy).
Not sure exactly what brought Cotton and Fran to Fort Worth permanently (someone else may be able to answer that), but he started the transmission repair business around the mid '50s, after leaving military service.
As for TT, I don't know how or when he met the Arnolds (though I personally believe he'd known them at least a few years prior to his marriage to Rachel), but think he liked their more casual active lifestyle (racing, bowling, camping, etc) and youth, and they took him in, gave him a sense of family and belonging after the deaths of his own (much older) adoptive parents. JMO

 

[Seekingjustice4themissing]

I concede the girls were likely killed and there are people who know something, but remain silent.
There have been more than enough eyes on this case through the years for it to have been solved. The ONLY reason the trio haven't been found imo is because a higher-ranking LEO was responsible and loyalty to (and fear of) a family of cops apparently matters more than justice for Rachel, Renee, and Julie.
The girls' bodies are probably in Benbrook Lake, entombed in concrete or a wrecked car from a salvage yard. When they are found, I think people who have been silent for 5 decades will be willing to talk. May this be the year-- it's been long enough.
All jmo

I a

I concede the girls were likely killed and there are people who know something, but remain silent.
There have been more than enough eyes on this case through the years for it to have been solved. The ONLY reason the trio haven't been found imo is because a higher-ranking LEO was responsible and loyalty to (and fear of) a family of cops apparently matters more than justice for Rachel, Renee, and Julie.
The girls' bodies are probably in Benbrook Lake, entombed in concrete or a wrecked car from a salvage yard. When they are found, I think people who have been silent for 5 decades will be willing to talk. May this be the year-- it's been long enough.
All jmo

i agree

 

[Truthseeker1974]

Has there ever been a more thorough deep dive into Cotton's friends or workers from the garage, CB club and racing and what those people were like? There are podcasts the mention Billy Simpson but that connection seems loose and I'm not clear if that was a relationship between Billy and Cotton. Additionally curious about Tommy's place in those relationships with him working/possibly being part owner of one of those garages. I'm trying to get a picture of family culture and environment and I'm working off that idea of "those you surround yourself with are a reflection of who you are" so I want to understand that for Cotton and Fran. I'm also interested in Cotton's childhood if there is any info done on that. I'm digging but if someone else has already done it, I'd love to take a look at it. Thanks,

Hello, the relationships between Cotton Arnold , Billy Simpson , Charles Reed and a few others were rumored to be fractured or “pretending to not like each other” after the girl’s disappearance. Which would be a great tactic when it comes to getting away with something like this.

 

[FWTrioDoc]

Does anyone have actual copies of TT's parents death certificates? Also, beyond purchasing a home after Rachel's disappearance, did TT have any sort of past immediate or extended familial connection with Throckmorton, TX or is it just coincidence the controversial processing rubber stamp may (even though not likely) have come from Throckmorton and then TT bought a home in Throckmorton?

 

[susang0907]

My impression was Julie was home alone when she called her mother for permission to go with the girls. So by that reasoning, my guess is she would also have been alone when dropped off later that afternoon (before whoever else in her household got home). I'd take "be home by 6" to be about Julie being back in the house and not losing track of time at the mall, but not necessarily being with anyone at her house. It also makes sense her mother got home around 6pm from work, so she wanted Julie home when she got there.

I'm thinking now perhaps the trio got in a 2nd car at the mall thinking its driver would take Julie and Renee to their respective homes. But why? Because 2nd car driver had a female passenger, with the claim that she needed a car for her own errands either at the mall or elsewhere. So...2nd car driver takes the trio in while female passenger gets out...Rachel hands over her car keys assuming she'll see her own car and the female passenger later. I think they got in the car without fanfare looking completely normal, because it WAS normal. These people knew each other and no one was under duress...there was nothing to witness and so it wasn't. That's the basic foundation before myriad scenarios may have unfolded.

From there I think the intent WAS to bring at least Julie (and probably Renee) home, but they witnessed something. "Something" being either violence towards Rachel or they heard something said between Rachel and the driver. Or both. If it was just something said, it was incendiary enough that the driver didn't want to risk it being repeated, i.e. extraordinarily sensitive info about people/places/things. In that case, it's likely whatever was said put the driver in jeopardy and that sealed their fates. But I do still lean toward something pretty dramatic and point-of-no-return-ish to lead to the killing of a small child. So, maybe a screaming match on the way home...driver pulls over and he and Rachel go at it outside the car. Rachel goes down, and doesn't get up, perhaps she is shot. In the heat of the moment, "kill the witnesses" might be the only clear thought of the driver.

Meanwhile, the female passenger who took Rachel's car could truthfully say she didn't know what happened or where the trio ended up. In this scenario, only 5 people knew of the car switch and 3 of them are likely dead. Rachel's car may have been taken for some errands and returned later after everything hit the fan, or maybe it never moved from where she parked it. Any prints in her car would make sense. The 2nd car might have been unknowingly "borrowed" for an afternoon and returned unnoticed, or it may be underwater or buried with 3 bodies in it.

To get three girls that could obviously scream and fight one person off or two people they would have had to have known the individuals. The reason I say this is that this is in the middle of the day in a public area and all three of them went missing from the same place. There were 3 that could fight so I think they had a connection to the person that they got in a car with. Maybe coaxing them by asking if they wanted to go for a quick ride or something similar to that or they met someone who said something to get them to go with them or they had a way of getting them in a vehicle without causing a scene.