TX TX - Vidor, near I-10, WhtFem 12-20, 72UFTX (UP4574), Skeletal, previous braces, Jan'84

[Bit of hope]

I read the whole thread now. It was started in 2005, now it's 2022! We had two Jane Doe's who turned up to be one and the same, we had a recon of a woman with long thick brown hair, that turned up to be short, fine hair. Making me doubt the info is correct now. In all those years still only 3 official rule outs, but dozens of suggestions and some of them ruled out "of the record". How is LE keeping track op them? We had somebody (@Earth) who tried for 3 years to get LE's attention. This was a child.....why does it feel her file is kind of stuck and catching dust in somebody's desk drawer? Off course there is a possibility that this girl wasn't reported missing, but hé....

 

[Tahlia Woodson]

What about Judy Jurgens?

3722DFMN - Judy Gail Jurgens

IMO, she looks like the recon, went to TX with a guy in late 1982 and never came back, and looks to have possibly been wearing braces in the younger photo of her at the link.

Judy IS wearing braces in her younger photo, you're right! There's nothing in Judy's case that's discouraging me to think it's definitely not her (aside from probably her hair being noticeably wavy and Jane's appearing quite straight in the recon), I would say submit it.

 

[John/Jane Doe]

@Caring1 Hey could you post the current list of NamUs exclusions for this Jane Doe? I would greatly appreciate it.

 

[subaw0067]

@Caring1 Hey could you post the current list of NamUs exclusions for this Jane Doe? I would greatly appreciate it.

Here you go my friend

 

[Earth]

Shelley Luty still hasn't been ruled out.

 

[Mrs. Badcrumble]

The 39th year mark since the discovery of Vidor Jane Doe just passed, and her NamUs was recently updated, but no new visible exclusions. I wonder if she's being worked on by genealogists? One can only hope.

 

[Mrs. Badcrumble]

One new exclusion by NamUs:

MP17877
Melody Jones
05/04/1983
Pottawatomie
OK


The other exclusions:

MP18953
Ruth Severance
12/11/1982
Harris
TX

MP1859
Sondra Ramber
10/26/1983
Galveston
TX

MP6429
Julie Moseley
12/23/1974
Tarrant
TX

MP5247
Mindi Chambers
10/19/1982
Maricopa
AZ

 

[Laughing]

You're not the only one noticing the resemblance! I suggested Kelle looked a lot like Vidor Jane Doe when she was suggested as a match for WCJD a while back. Timeline adds up, too.

I would still love for LE to find Kelle Fernstrom's remains. Another poster has corresponded with a detective, and Kelle is considered a rule-out as DNA is available for both.

But Kelle is not on the rule-out list, is that right?

TX - TX- Kelle Fernstrom, 24, Houston, 1 Sep 1983

Kelle Renee Ferstrom Nickname/Alias SC0TT-FERNSTR0M,KELLE Harris County, Texas 49 year old white female Height (inches) 66.0 Weight (pounds) 135.0 Brown Hair Brown Eyes The MP was...

www.websleuths.com

 

[Mrs. Badcrumble]

But Kelle is not on the rule-out list, is that right?

Those are the only official ruleouts per NamUs as of now, I’m afraid. I don’t know why Kelle isn’t on the list, but I remember the correspondence with detective Buse very well (and give yourself some credit, Laughing! It was you who emailed him! )

 

[Alleykins]

Those are the only official ruleouts per NamUs as of now, I’m afraid. I don’t know why Kelle isn’t on the list, but I remember the correspondence with detective Buse very well (and give yourself some credit, Laughing! It was you who emailed him! )

They only list manual ruleouts.
Automatic ruleouts aren't listed in NamUs. It's supposed to be a given that if both MP & UP have matching identifiers in AFIS/NCIC/CODIS, and they're not listed, that they were found not to be a match. Because there are so many MP/UP cases, NamUs said it would nearly impossible to list every ruleout for each case.
I have seen a few exceptions, but I think they will update an auto ruleout to keep people from bombarding them with the same potential matches over and over.

 

[Laughing]

Those are the only official ruleouts per NamUs as of now, I’m afraid. I don’t know why Kelle isn’t on the list, but I remember the correspondence with detective Buse very well (and give yourself some credit, Laughing! It was you who emailed him! )

I did? Well, then, um, thanks for reminding me!

I few of these folks -- I can't seem to let go of? Every slight woman with light brown hair is Kelle, every tall, dark haired man looks like Bennett Wall:

NM - NM - Bennett Irvin Wall, 23, Albuquerque, 1 Feb 1981

Bennett Irvin Wall Wall, circa 1984 Missing Since: February 1, 1981 Missing From: Albuquerque, Bernalillo County, New Mexico Classification: Missing Sex: Male Race / Ethnicity: White / Caucasian Date of Birth: January 11, 1958 Age: 23 years old Height: 6’3” (75 inches) Weight: 180 pounds Hair...

www.websleuths.com

Anybody else, well, is Not-Paul Raymond Harrod!

IN - IN - Paul Raymond Harrod, adult, may have been using false identity, Hamilton County, 27 Nov 1992

Hamilton County Sheriff’s Office detectives are seeking assistance in solving a cold case they have been working for several years. It is an unusual case involving a missing person using possible false identifying information that has resulted in few results during the investigation. On Friday...

www.websleuths.com

In case you are looking for another rabbit hole, fellow posters, here are a couple for you!

 

[John/Jane Doe]

Vidor Jane Doe at the Texas Department of Public Safety:

TxDPS Missing and Unidentified Persons Online Bulletin

Texas Missing Persons Clearinghouse Online Bulletin, Browse photos and searchable bulletins of missing persons, abductors, and unidentified persons, a central repository for information and pictures of missing and unidentified persons in Texas.

www.dps.texas.gov

 

[John/Jane Doe]

Vidor Jane Doe at the Doe Network:
72UFTX

Vidor Jane Doe at NamUs:

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

By bringing people, information, forensic science and technology together, NamUs helps resolve cases.

www.namus.gov

 

[SimsGuy67]

Hey everyone. I have been heavily considering Sheyl Denise Taylor as a potential match for this Jane Doe. The Grimes County Jane Doe has also been heavily considered and police have got DNA for Sheryl to see if they match. I don't think that Doe is her but I do think the Vidor Jane Doe really could be.

Now, the main factor here is that this Jane Doe had shorter hair than Sheryl. There are two possibilities here.
1. She cut he hair if she ran away after her disappearance.
2. Her hair was short when she disappeared.
I think that possibility 2 is the most likely explanation and the one piece of evidence for this is an unconfirmed yearbook photo of Sheryl from 1978 in Picher, the year after this one.

This photo depicts Sheryl having short hair, like this Jane Doe. This puts the Vidor Jane Doe more likely to be Sheryl than the Grimes County Jane Doe IMO. Height also seems like an issue but I suspect that:
1. Sheryl's height is off.
2. The Doe's height is off.
On Vidor Jane Doe's profile, they say that they know the height is an estimate and may be a few inches off. Also, Sheryl's height seems very off for even a 12 year old. My guess would be that she is closer to 4'5 than 4'.

	Vidor Jane Doe UP4574	Sheryl Denise Taylor- Charley Proj.
Sex	Female	Female
Race	White/Caucasian	White/Caucsaian
Age	12 - 20	12
DLC/DOD	1983 - 1984	July 20, 1978
Height	4'10 - 5'2	4'
Weight	Unknown	60 pounds
Hair Color	Brown	Red/Auburn
Eye Color	Unknown	Hazel
Distinctive Features	Unknown	Supposed to wear a patch over one eye but often takes it off.
Circumstances	Found in field.	Last seen in Picher, OK. Notably didn't like it there.
Distance	Picher - Vidor	553 miles (9hrs 17mins)

I feel that timing and location are the only problems here. I know hair color but I have seen hair color change slightly post-mortem in some cases. Here is Sheryl's thread:

OK - OK - Sheryl/Cheryl Denise Taylor, 12, Picher, July 1978

Not in Namus, nor can I find a thread. CRIME What happened to a Picher teen missing for 45 years? by: Sheila Stogsdill Posted: Jan 12, 2023 / 03:46 PM CST Updated: Jan 12, 2023 / 04:22 PM CST Sheryl Taylor hasn't been seen since July 20, 1978 PICHER, Okla. — A retired law enforcement...

www.websleuths.com

 

[John/Jane Doe]

Vidor Jane Doe at the Texas Department of Public Safety:

TxDPS Missing and Unidentified Persons Online Bulletin

Texas Missing Persons Clearinghouse Online Bulletin, Browse photos and searchable bulletins of missing persons, abductors, and unidentified persons, a central repository for information and pictures of missing and unidentified persons in Texas.

www.dps.texas.gov

 

[John/Jane Doe]

Hey everyone. I have been heavily considering Sheyl Denise Taylor as a potential match for this Jane Doe. The Grimes County Jane Doe has also been heavily considered and police have got DNA for Sheryl to see if they match. I don't think that Doe is her but I do think the Vidor Jane Doe really could be.

Now, the main factor here is that this Jane Doe had shorter hair than Sheryl. There are two possibilities here.
1. She cut he hair if she ran away after her disappearance.
2. Her hair was short when she disappeared.
I think that possibility 2 is the most likely explanation and the one piece of evidence for this is an unconfirmed yearbook photo of Sheryl from 1978 in Picher, the year after this one.

This photo depicts Sheryl having short hair, like this Jane Doe. This puts the Vidor Jane Doe more likely to be Sheryl than the Grimes County Jane Doe IMO. Height also seems like an issue but I suspect that:
1. Sheryl's height is off.
2. The Doe's height is off.
On Vidor Jane Doe's profile, they say that they know the height is an estimate and may be a few inches off. Also, Sheryl's height seems very off for even a 12 year old. My guess would be that she is closer to 4'5 than 4'.

	Vidor Jane Doe UP4574	Sheryl Denise Taylor- Charley Proj.
Sex	Female	Female
Race	White/Caucasian	White/Caucsaian
Age	12 - 20	12
DLC/DOD	1983 - 1984	July 20, 1978
Height	4'10 - 5'2	4'
Weight	Unknown	60 pounds
Hair Color	Brown	Red/Auburn
Eye Color	Unknown	Hazel
Distinctive Features	Unknown	Supposed to wear a patch over one eye but often takes it off.
Circumstances	Found in field.	Last seen in Picher, OK. Notably didn't like it there.
Distance	Picher - Vidor	553 miles (9hrs 17mins)

I feel that timing and location are the only problems here. I know hair color but I have seen hair color change slightly post-mortem in some cases. Here is Sheryl's thread:

OK - OK - Sheryl/Cheryl Denise Taylor, 12, Picher, July 1978

Not in Namus, nor can I find a thread. CRIME What happened to a Picher teen missing for 45 years? by: Sheila Stogsdill Posted: Jan 12, 2023 / 03:46 PM CST Updated: Jan 12, 2023 / 04:22 PM CST Sheryl Taylor hasn't been seen since July 20, 1978 PICHER, Okla. — A retired law enforcement...

www.websleuths.com

This could be a good match, Vidor Jane Doe died around 1983 and The Charley Project mentions that Sheryl Taylor "possibly ran away from home" so she may have been alive for 5 years and in 1983 she may have been murdered ( Sheryl would have been approximately 17 years old in 1983).

 

[DS2021]

It's supposed to be a given that if both MP & UP have matching identifiers in AFIS/NCIC/CODIS, and they're not listed, that they were found not to be a match.

As far as I know only DNA auto matches, but BOTH cases would need to have the same type of DNA. Afaik the Unidentified Index in CODIS only allows for the entry of Nuclear DNA, so they would have to have nuclear DNA on file for the missing person in order for it to match.

 

[Tony1902]

Vidor is roughly 2 hours from The Woodlands:
Hello!!!!!! Othram?????

 

[Alleykins]

As far as I know only DNA auto matches, but BOTH cases would need to have the same type of DNA. Afaik the Unidentified Index in CODIS only allows for the entry of Nuclear DNA, so they would have to have nuclear DNA on file for the missing person in order for it to match.

I'm not sure, but I thought they also used mtDNA for those samples that are too degraded. I know the Allenstown victims only had mitochondrial because theirs was so degraded. The AG said they couldn't compare it to the criminal profiles in CODIS to look for a paternal match because the protocol was different. Before Marlyse and her daughters were ID'd, they couldn't even compare Marlyse's DNA to Rasmussen's, hers was so degraded.

 

[DS2021]

I'm not sure, but I thought they also used mtDNA for those samples that are too degraded

I emailed someone at NamUs, if they do allow mtDNA I will inquire about how the auto matchup works with cases with mtDNA, Considering mtDNA isn't 100 percent unique