Still Missing UK - Bernadette Walker, 17, left parent's car, Peterborough, 21 July 2020 *Arrests* #4

[Tortoise]

I just think he slipped up, he didn't need to mention visiting horses at all. We are all entitled to have opinions and ideas especially as B still hasn't been found so to me any idea (especially with local input) could still help locate her body.

Can I ask why you have dismissed the idea completely?

I didn't say anyone wasn't entitled to have an opinion, I asked why.

I've dismissed it because on the basis I think he murdered her I don't think he would give the slightest hint as to where he went that might check out with his actual location or route. I don't think he slips up, he gets cornered by evidence and tries to fight his way out with lies. I don't think his intention on the stand is to be helpful to the police or the prosecution, it's either 'I don't recall' or a lie, because the truth won't help him out of his current predicament.

 

[CSIAngus]

I would have thought the prosecution would have asked ScW where he stopped with BW to look at horses.

ScW switched his phone off and on again within range of the Gunthorpe telecomms mast (situated behind the Barn Garden Centre). I'm wondering if the references to showing BW horses is truth leakage. Is there anywhere around there with horses in fields next to a road? Are there horses in the mast field, for instance, as it looks like pasture?

I would have thought the prosecution would have asked ScW where he stopped with BW to look at horses.

ScW switched his phone off and on again within range of the Gunthorpe telecomms mast (situated behind the Barn Garden Centre). I'm wondering if the references to showing BW horses is truth leakage. Is there anywhere around there with horses in fields next to a road? Are there horses in the mast field, for instance, as it looks like pasture?

Just looking on Google streetview and aerial view, there are a number of locations with horse paddocks on Bridge Hill Road, which Gunthorpe Road leads to. Some of the fencing is not dissimilar to the fencing ScW made for Hill House Farm as shown on his HiH Maintenance facebook page.

 

[mspuurfect]

I didn't say anyone wasn't entitled to have an opinion, I asked why.

I've dismissed it because on the basis I think he murdered her I don't think he would give the slightest hint as to where he went that might check out with his actual location or route. I don't think he slips up, he gets cornered by evidence and tries to fight his way out with lies. I don't think his intention on the stand is to be helpful to the police or the prosecution, it's either 'I don't recall' or a lie, because the truth won't help him out of his current predicament.

I agree with pretty much all of what your saying, especially the laying of the false trail. IMO though he slipped up mentioning the horses but obviously all MOO - we shall agree to disagree for now but I respect yours and everyones opinons Sorry started this message wanting to justify more but tiredness has hit!

 

[CSIAngus]

The yellow circles are the horses I could take you to and guarantee they would be there everyday. The left circle there was a baby horse that has since been moved, but last year it would have been there 100%.

My second image shows the track where I mentioned yesterday.

Interesting. It's sufficiently near civilisation to give an air of security yet quite secluded with the draw of a new foal. BW could have been killed within 150m of the gate (the 410 steps) and her body hastily hidden. I'm drawn to the west side of Gunthorpe Road of the two areas you highlight; the one with the foal. One car would also take up all the space without blocking the gate. ScW could easily leave his car and mobile in the pub car park north of Uldale Way in the early hours of the 19th and make the journey there and back on foot, having buried BW in the trees on the south side of Car Dyke.

 

[CSIAngus]

I just think he slipped up, he didn't need to mention visiting horses at all. We are all entitled to have opinions and ideas especially as B still hasn't been found so to me any idea (especially with local input) could still help locate her body.

Can I ask why you have dismissed the idea completely?

Tortoise throws coconuts at my theories too, it's just debate. I think the horses was a slip. Theorising where BW is buried or otherwise disposed of is a legitimate subject for discussion in this forum. To that end, local knowledge is invaluable. You've certainly given me something else to consider. I'd never considered that he could have been on foot in the early hours of the 19th.

 

[mrazda71]

I’m extremely dismayed that he may be found not guilty.

I've been following cases here for around 7 years and in my opinion, if we think it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck and is in fact a ... duck - jurors, who get to see and hear FAR more than we do - will also think it's a duck.

Some may interpret evidence we're hearing as Circumstantial, and think that Circumstantial evidence alone equates to a 'weak' case, not so.

There may be 'no smoking gun' and as in this case no body but in fact, no body is almost evidence in itself - if an accident had befallen Bernadette or she were alive then her 'parents' would not be in the predicament that they are.

The fact that Bernadette disappeared and has contacted not a single person, nor been seen alive by a single person, nor had her bag, phone, money is solid evidence that she is no longer alive.

If we agree she's no longer alive then we ask, how? And where? And who? And why?

And the answers are always Scott and Sarah.

 

[CSIAngus]

I've been following cases here for around 7 years and in my opinion, if we think it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck and is in fact a ... duck - jurors, who get to see and hear FAR more than we do - will also think it's a duck.

Some may interpret evidence we're hearing as Circumstantial, and think that Circumstantial evidence alone equates to a 'weak' case, not so.

There may be 'no smoking gun' and as in this case no body but in fact, no body is almost evidence in itself - if an accident had befallen Bernadette or she were alive then her 'parents' would not be in the predicament that they are.

The fact that Bernadette disappeared and has contacted not a single person, nor been seen alive by a single person, nor had her bag, phone, money is solid evidence that she is no longer alive.

If we agree she's no longer alive then we ask, how? And where? And who? And why?

And the answers are always Scott and Sarah.

The jury I was on had 2 of the 12 who wouldn't agree to guilty. Two of the others defended them against bullying from other jurors so it became 8 vs 4, even though 2 of the 4 thought the defendant was guilty. The 4 demanded that all of the evidence was discussed. That kept us deliberating for 3 days until the judge accepted the majority. After that experience, I take nothing for granted with juries. They have their own dynamic based on personalities. I recommend everyone watches the movie 12 Angry Men.

 

[Joey100]

The horses thing is probably pretty true (more leakage), may not be stables could just be a field with a couple of horses. They also mentioned McDonalds, I still think that was the excuse he used to perhaps take BW in that direction in the first place. Out of interest can anyone tell me whats behind these gates?

Google Maps

Hi if you look at the satellite View it appears to be an entrance to Werrington lakes

 

[Fidobell]

The trials for the murders of Margaret Fleming, Suzanne Pilley and Arlene Fraser were all no body trials. All the accused found guilty. There was also no forensic evidence provided for the Margaret Fleming trial.

You a fellow Scot Bluebear ? 3 Scottish cases you mention . And your user name anything to do with a football team ?

 

[Gooner666]

I've been following cases here for around 7 years and in my opinion, if we think it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck and is in fact a ... duck - jurors, who get to see and hear FAR more than we do - will also think it's a duck.

Some may interpret evidence we're hearing as Circumstantial, and think that Circumstantial evidence alone equates to a 'weak' case, not so.

There may be 'no smoking gun' and as in this case no body but in fact, no body is almost evidence in itself - if an accident had befallen Bernadette or she were alive then her 'parents' would not be in the predicament that they are.

The fact that Bernadette disappeared and has contacted not a single person, nor been seen alive by a single person, nor had her bag, phone, money is solid evidence that she is no longer alive.

If we agree she's no longer alive then we ask, how? And where? And who? And why?

And the answers are always Scott and Sarah.

Nailed it

 

[Mercsw]

Here are some examples of sentences for PTCOJ in a murder investigation.

This guy encouraged his nephew to lie to police - 5 years

Uncle jailed for perverting course of justice in murder investigation | News | West Midlands Police

Lied for her then boyfriend accused of murdering 2 children - 6 years

Jennifer Johnson: Ex-girlfriend of Babes in the Wood killer Russell Bishop jailed for six years for lying during murder trial

Lied to police after her son murdered Rhts Jones - 3 years

Mother of Rhys Jones murderer jailed for three years

these are for murder (not yet proven) and they are quite small sentences still. I have a feeling we are going to be very disappointed here if that’s the sort of sentence this carries

 

[Mercsw]

Hi, I live extremely close to a lot of the key areas in this tragic case and not a day goes by when I don’t think of Bernadette when I pass them. I remember a friend posting about Bernadette being missing at the start and clicking on her mother’s profile through a comment to see if I recognised her. Alarm bells rang immediately so I have no doubt they did for the police as well. Something that has always bothered me is the grandparents allowing her to be picked up by someone she had alleged had abused her (I’m guessing as they reported she repeated to them she wasn’t lying they were aware of the allegations). To me you either believe them and wouldn’t allow that or don’t believe them and then wouldn’t allow them to be alone together in case more allegations are made. I also would be very interested to hear both of the accused explanations for Bernadette not taking her phone with her which is very unusual for someone of her age. In relation to today’s talk of horses. There is a travellers site to the right of the barn garden centre, after Roman fields and there are often horses left in the fields and next to the turning to the barn garden centre and also further along near the werrington roundabout which is where you would turn down to skaters way. There are often cars where the horses are from dog walkers and I wouldn’t bat an eye at one being left there. To me the mention of skaters way is more than problematic. As far as I’m aware it’s pretty much a dead end unless you are a bus so is not somewhere you would use as a through route. I fear Bernadette was gone before anyone knew she was missing and is still very local. I pray she is found and given the respect she deserves.

Just want to point out that skaters way was never mentioned. He actually said salters way (which doesn’t exist) and then many months later in questioning, changed it to this. As you said, it’s a loop road the bus takes nowhere near McDonald’s, horses, grandparents or where he lived. He’s either a complete moron who gets lost finding his bathroom at home, or he’s just making it up to suit whatever evidence is coming his way.

I did wonder about the gypsy sites, but I wasn’t aware they had horses.

 

[Mercsw]

I'm intrigued to know what makes anyone think he's not lying about driving to see horses.

This is a man who said he was reading the racing news to explain why he was out all night, and said he set up covert cameras in the bathroom because of hidden sweet wrappers. He needed to give an excuse and he's a liar (imo).

What would motivate him to 'leak truth' about the place he is alleged to have committed a murder? It doesn't make the story any more believable, taking Bee to see lovely horses in the Fens when she has just disclosed to people for the first time that he raped her.

I have always thought he was lucky rather than smart. When you lie, you need some truth to cling to. Everyone has said the horses bit is weird and stands out. I didn’t buy into the barn garden centre but at first, but I suspect it could be the case the more we find out (although that may be it for now sadly). If he’s not taking the stand and neither is she, I guess it will be what’s left of the evidence between now and Wednesday.

 

[Tortoise]

The summing up of the trial should be quite interesting for anyone on a mission to hear all the evidence we haven't heard about because of lax media reporting. The papers rarely report on it, they sometimes cover the prosecution and defence closing speeches but there's also the judge's summing up where everything is repeated in summary form for the jury. I wouldn't trust any of our usual media reporters to bother attending now until the jury goes out, although it would be a nice surprise.

 

[jackal67]

I’m extremely dismayed that he may be found not guilty.

Me too. Don't think there is enough evidence to convince the jury of murder

 

[Sooty]

For Those of you who are doubting there’s enough evidence for a murder conviction - I’m curious enough to ask, what further evidence would you expect to see?

I’m not talking forensics, as whilst that would be expected in most situations, we all seem to be thinking that the act was committed ‘out in the open’.

 

[jackal67]

these are for murder (not yet proven) and they are quite small sentences still. I have a feeling we are going to be very disappointed here if that’s the sort of sentence this carries

I agree. What happens to the PTCOJ charges if ScW is found not guilty of Murder?

 

[jackal67]

The summing up of the trial should be quite interesting for anyone on a mission to hear all the evidence we haven't heard about because of lax media reporting. The papers rarely report on it, they sometimes cover the prosecution and defence closing speeches but there's also the judge's summing up where everything is repeated in summary form for the jury. I wouldn't trust any of our usual media reporters to bother attending now until the jury goes out, although it would be a nice surprise.

I really hope someone from here will be able to attend court for that

 

[jackal67]

For Those of you who are doubting there’s enough evidence for a murder conviction - I’m curious enough to ask, what further evidence would you expect to see?

I’m not talking forensics, as whilst that would be expected in most situations, we all seem to be thinking that the act was committed ‘out in the open’.

A good question. I don't know really, but expected there to be more witnesses called the two older siblings for example. Questions about the family dynamics .the late night trips, arguments within the home etc. Questions about the fear of social services involvement. Anything to strengthen the motive for murder I guess.

 

[Sooty]

@jackal67 do you not believe ScW was sexually abusing BW ?

Because that coming out, and the attempts by both of them to manipulate the disclosure, is surely a very strong motive for murder?

MOO