What does SA say actually happened?

[Mrs Marple]

Apologies if this has already been covered. We all know AV maintains his innocence, and he didn't testify at trial. But what is his account of what actually happened? Presumably he admits he had contact with TH on the day. How long was she there for, wh asr direction did she leave in, who did she speak to etc?

 

[proudfootz]

TH arrived, took her photos, he paid her, she left.

Steven went inside to drop off the copy of Auto Trader she gave him.

He came outside and Steven last saw her vehicle heading down Avery Road toward 147.

 

[proudfootz]

Here's an interview where Steven spills the beans about everything he knows about the case:

 

[Mrs Marple]

Was the camera, or parts of it, ever recovered?

 

[Saul Vesalot]

Was the camera, or parts of it, ever recovered?

It was burned up and found in one of the burn barrels. I think maybe barrel 5 along with her cell phone. The one from Steven's driveway.

The box with the phone and camera remnants was marked 8316, according to what I'm seeing in the CASO.

 

[YIPSISTHEMAN]

He also claims that he cut his finger in his sink, that he left his sink full of blood for a few days without cleaning it, that the police then took his blood and spread it over a couple of place in Halbach's car. That's his explanation as to how his blood got in the RAV4.

 

[proudfootz]

He also claims that he cut his finger in his sink, that he left his sink full of blood for a few days without cleaning it, that the police then took his blood and spread it over a couple of place in Halbach's car. That's his explanation as to how his blood got in the RAV4.

IIRC the blood in the sink was just overnight. After dressing the wound he left for Menard's without cleaning up, and he says next morning he noticed the mess had been wiped up.

Apparently there was some blood found in Steven's home, but it turned out to be Steven's.

 

[missy1974]

He also claims that he cut his finger in his sink, that he left his sink full of blood for a few days without cleaning it, that the police then took his blood and spread it over a couple of place in Halbach's car. That's his explanation as to how his blood got in the RAV4.

Actually, it would be within a matter of minutes that Bobby and not LE could have been in the bathroom. That is what SA and Zellner are saying. I would have to go back and watch that one reenactment video to see how long it took to drive from the trailer to the highway, but that is also where SA said he was when he saw tail lights in his yard and he turned around and went back. This is not really new, SA has been saying this all along, but he has also said that no one, including LE and his previous lawyers, listened to him.

I have wondered if Bobby smoked? I recall SA saying that his trailer smelled like someone was smoking in it, but I think that was on the Thursday or Friday.

 

[Saul Vesalot]

Actually, it would be within a matter of minutes that Bobby and not LE could have been in the bathroom. That is what SA and Zellner are saying. I would have to go back and watch that one reenactment video to see how long it took to drive from the trailer to the highway, but that is also where SA said he was when he saw tail lights in his yard and he turned around and went back.

My memory tells me it was 6 minutes.

This is not really new, SA has been saying this all along, but he has also said that no one, including LE and his previous lawyers, listened to him.

I have wondered if Bobby smoked? I recall SA saying that his trailer smelled like someone was smoking in it, but I think that was on the Thursday or Friday.

I'm trying to figure out if "he was saying it all along" is a good argument. On the hand, if he is innocent, it means he really thinks it is important. If he's guilty, he picked a straw to grasp at and is holding on for dear life to it.

If he was going to make something up, if he was specific at all about who could have been on his property at the time, he could have introduced reasonable doubt.
The disappearing blood is such an out there claim to make up and hold on to so much, especially considering how little anyone cared about it.

The "smells like smoking thing" could indicate a pattern. Maybe someone frequently lurked around Steven's trailer for whatever reason. Looking for some loose change, . Cigarettes. Or just being a nosy-Rosey.

 

[Karinna]

Actually, it would be within a matter of minutes that Bobby and not LE could have been in the bathroom. That is what SA and Zellner are saying. I would have to go back and watch that one reenactment video to see how long it took to drive from the trailer to the highway, but that is also where SA said he was when he saw tail lights in his yard and he turned around and went back. This is not really new, SA has been saying this all along, but he has also said that no one, including LE and his previous lawyers, listened to him.

I have wondered if Bobby smoked? I recall SA saying that his trailer smelled like someone was smoking in it, but I think that was on the Thursday or Friday.

From the info. i posted up the other day on another thread. SA & his brother Chuck were going to Menards and asked Bobby if he wanted to go with them. Bobby said he couldn't because "he had things to do".
They left for Menards around 7:30 and got back at 10:00. That is when SA said he just went to bed after that. So when he ripped the previous cut on his finger open again on the trailer, i imagine he went inside to his bathroom to tape the cut and then proceeded to go to Menards with Chuck.
So Bobby had plenty of time to retrieve SA's blood from the sink, some two and a half hours before they got back at 10:00.
I wasn't aware they turned back toward SA's place after they left because of the tail lights that were seen in SA's yard?

 

[missy1974]

My memory tells me it was 6 minutes.


I'm trying to figure out if "he was saying it all along" is a good argument. On the hand, if he is innocent, it means he really thinks it is important. If he's guilty, he picked a straw to grasp at and is holding on for dear life to it.

If he was going to make something up, if he was specific at all about who could have been on his property at the time, he could have introduced reasonable doubt.
The disappearing blood is such an out there claim to make up and hold on to so much, especially considering how little anyone cared about it.

The "smells like smoking thing" could indicate a pattern. Maybe someone frequently lurked around Steven's trailer for whatever reason. Looking for some loose change, . Cigarettes. Or just being a nosy-Rosey.

I'm not sure if it's a good argument or not either. But it isn't something that Zellner or Avery made up out of thin air, and it was mentioned early on. I have read comments that "oh now Avery is saying this...", no, Avery said this back in 2005. I think he was probably told he was crazy, and maybe at the time, even SA didn't believe Bobby could have done it, I think that has all changed now.

I don't know about the smoking thing... if Bobby was a smoker, I imagine Zellner would be broadcasting it lol I always thought it was interesting though.

 

[missy1974]

From the info. i posted up the other day on another thread. SA & his brother Chuck were going to Menards and asked Bobby if he wanted to go with them. Bobby said he couldn't because "he had things to do".
They left for Menards around 7:30 and got back at 10:00. That is when SA said he just went to bed after that. So when he ripped the previous cut on his finger open again on the trailer, i imagine he went inside to his bathroom to tape the cut and then proceeded to go to Menards with Chuck.
So Bobby had plenty of time to retrieve SA's blood from the sink, some two and a half hours before they got back at 10:00.
I wasn't aware they turned back toward SA's place after they left because of the tail lights that were seen in SA's yard?

Right, he had all that time, but I think Zellner said it coagulates in about 15 minutes.

Yes, Steven (and Chuck) said that they turned around, SA grabbed a flashlight and checked his yard, but didn't check his trailer IIRC.

 

[Karinna]

Right, he had all that time, but I think Zellner said it coagulates in about 15 minutes.

Yes, Steven (and Chuck) said that they turned around, SA grabbed a flashlight and checked his yard, but didn't check his trailer IIRC.

Thanks for clarifying missy. Good point about the blood coagulating, and i do remember about KZ saying that now you mention it.

 

[Seahorseladydi]

IIRC the blood in the sink was just overnight. After dressing the wound he left for Menard's without cleaning up, and he says next morning he noticed the mess had been wiped up.

BBM
This is true! It was just overnight. I just finished watching Part 1 for the second time and Part 2 for the first time. That blood in the bathroom from the cut on SA’s finger was only there overnight.

(*just want to add.. how in the holy hell did they NOT find reasonable doubt in the first trial of SA or BD?)

 

[Mrs Marple]

Buuuut he saw tail lights and went back,would BoD really have got in his car to go over there? I thought it was walking distance? I guess if it was dark and there were pot holes. What day did this happen?

 

[proudfootz]

Thanks for clarifying missy. Good point about the blood coagulating, and i do remember about KZ saying that now you mention it.

BBM

Maybe this is how you get 'blood flakes' in the RAV4?

 

[Mrs Marple]

I'm still not convinced on this.

If the blood was mopped up with a cloth, surely it would have dripped on the floor? If there wasn't much and it didn't drip, then how was there enough to plant it? The blood smears in the RAV4 look fairly significant.

It seems far more likely the source was something else, if it was planted.

 

[missy1974]

I'm still not convinced on this.

If the blood was mopped up with a cloth, surely it would have dripped on the floor? If there wasn't much and it didn't drip, then how was there enough to plant it? The blood smears in the RAV4 look fairly significant.

It seems far more likely the source was something else, if it was planted.

I'm not 100% sure I'm understanding what you are saying... but do you mean if someone wiped it up it would drip on Steve's bathroom floor? There was at least one dried blood drop found on his floor, and it was missing the "middle".

The State expert estimated the amount of blood (of just SA's) to be 1-2mls.

I think this is where some have wondered if water could be added to keep the blood wet and make it seem like more.

Here is the photo of a blood spot in his bathroom: http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c.../Exhibit-186-Blood-Spot-In-Avery-Bathroom.jpg

I have wondered if this is where blood flakes or crusts could come from?

 

[Saul Vesalot]

I think this is where some have wondered if water could be added to keep the blood wet and make it seem like more.

It seems a little messed up to try experimenting with this at home using real blood...I wonder if I can find a good substitute.

Here is the photo of a blood spot in his bathroom: http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c.../Exhibit-186-Blood-Spot-In-Avery-Bathroom.jpg

I have wondered if this is where blood flakes or crusts could come from?

That looks like it was partially dry and something came in contact with that drop. The edges will dry sooner leaving a thicker blob in the center wet. Something contacts the wet blood, pick it up and leaves the dry stuff behind

 

[proudfootz]

I admit I am skeptical of the collection of blood from one location using a cloth as it seems to go against my experience. Unless it was a significant amount of blood I can't picture squeezing a cloth and getting blood to drip out after it was absorbed.

I'm not sure if this is exact hypothesis that is being suggested.

MOO