What one subject or particular argument worries you from Closing Statements

[GeekyGirl]

Google search: "How to make chloroform"

Honestly? I probably would have too. My first thought after seeing a picture like that from a guy I knew would be "Ick, that's creepy, I hope he's kidding" and my second would be "Crap, what if he isn't, how easy is this stuff to make?" It would never occur to me that you could buy chloroform over the counter... I think of it as being an antiquated medical thing that would be highly controlled. I never had any idea it was used as an industrial solvent until this trial.

 

[Quiche]

Jose stealing the images for his magnets. :lol:

But seriously, I think the jurors want to take a whiff of the smell... and they can't. jmo

 

[sheri21]

The main thing for me is the chloroform. I think the defense did well when interpreting the evidence. 84 times means nothing to me now. I would search it if it was on my bf's myspace too, i would search how it is made too, what is in it and how it is used.

I agree but I don't think one discounts the other. I think she searched it because of boyfriend and that's where the idea came from. It is really easy to make and there was too much of it in the trunk. Both things happened, IMO.

 

[GeekyGirl]

Truthfully, even if she did search Chloroform for this reason, it could be argued that that's where she got the idea and it doesn't explain it's presence in her car.

But the car testimony may not be so solid for some people. IMO JA got lucky even getting the air sample testimony in, and even luckier that JB has no idea how to cross a scientist, but there were a few points that might concern some jurors about the validity and/or significance of that testing.

 

[reeseeva]

Chloroform 84 Times....I thought someone explained it, after the Defense came up with only once?

 

[Leah0107]

I think the state realized the chloroform issue was going to be sticky. IMO They did the right thing not emphasizing it in their closing, but the jury will notice this.

I agree!

 

[azscr4mbl3r]

Chloroform slmoroform.. At best it is nice to think that she was "kind" enough to knock her out first. NO chloroform just makes it worse not better. Baking cookies is more challenging than how to make chloroform. I think she is to lazy to do either but if it makes more sense to believe she drowned her in the pool go with that.

 

[Leah0107]

Whether or not chloroform played a role in Caylee's death, the duct tape says it all. There is no reason 3 strips of duct tape would go on a child's face except to make the child stop screaming or breathing. One strip over the mouth. Two strips to get the nose covered. Three strips to close any gap.

I hope that ICA was able to mix up an effective batch of chloroform and that Caylee wasn't terrified when she gasped her last breaths.

But, whether or not, ultimately, chloroform was used, the duct tape alone proves intentional and deliberate child abuse resulting in Caylee's death.

The state doesn't have to prove HOW Caylee died, just that she died as a result of ICA's deliberate actions. So whether you believe that Caylee died as a result of the duct tape OR the chloroform, either are child abuse and if Caylee died from being subjected to either, ICA is guilty of felony murder.

My thoughts exactly and you said it so concisely! Once I arrived at my decision a few nights ago after sleepless nights of agonizing over this duct tape, it's been my soapbox. When considering the evidence, I really got stuck on the chloroform as a potential cause of death - couldn't bring it all together in my mind.

 

[Eidetic]

Honestly? I probably would have too. My first thought after seeing a picture like that from a guy I knew would be "Ick, that's creepy, I hope he's kidding" and my second would be "Crap, what if he isn't, how easy is this stuff to make?" It would never occur to me that you could buy chloroform over the counter... I think of it as being an antiquated medical thing that would be highly controlled. I never had any idea it was used as an industrial solvent until this trial.

Honestly? I've had that same picture Ricardo put on his MySpace in my own photobucket account way before this case.
Never once did I Google; "How to make chloroform" until this case.

 

[GeekyGirl]

My thoughts exactly and you said it so concisely! Once I arrived at my decision a few nights ago after sleepless nights of agonizing over this duct tape, it's been my soapbox. When considering the evidence, I really got stuck on the chloroform as a potential cause of death - couldn't bring it all together in my mind.

I can't help but wonder though, if you had such difficulty with it, how the jurors will feel. Consider that they've had NO chance to discuss this with anyone. I've found that being on here and interacting with people has been incredibly helpful in sorting out what I think and feel. Just having to put my reasoning into words and then having others come along and point out why they feel differently really clarifies things for me. Can you imagine just having to sit and contemplate these things by yourself for 30 some days? To not be able to go "wait, was that right?" and be able to find immediate clarification? I don't envy those jurors one bit.

 

[GeekyGirl]

Honestly? I've had that same picture Ricardo put on his MySpace in my own photobucket account way before this case.
Never once did I Google; "How to make chloroform" until this case.

That just goes to show how different people handle things different ways.

 

[Curious Me]

I'm less worried about the jurors considering a accidental pool drowning than ever before. How can a juror entertain the idea when the State provided instances where people urged ICA to go with a drowning. Dr. G's words also dispel the idea of an accidental drowning.

Chloroform may be more of a problem. How many silly things do people put on their myspace. It gave a killer an idea? I don't feel it was stressed that Ricardo did say the only time Casey seemed upset and impatient with Caylee was putting her down to sleep. Robyn A. could've provided something to support that, but Robyn wasn't called for other reasons. Amy might've fell victim to being drugged by Casey, and her money went missing, but that story didn't get in. I think the pet dogs being sick/dying was only half way to revealing Casey had some kind of knock out drugs she used before.

But, all in all, I'm not worried. I believe the Jurors will be able to sort it out and reach a verdict quickly thanks to the State doing a fantastic job.

 

[SCWldneart]

There must have been some significance to the chloroform searches other than mere curiosity, otherwise ICA would not have deleted the searches before the chloroform even became an issue. What it tells me is that it is highly possible KC was making chloroform for her own personal use (to 'win over' Ricardo) as well as a babysitting aid. I believe on June 16th, KC felt the need for a permanent babysitter...not just a one nighter. The duct tape sealed the deal, if you will, and was easier to prove in court as the murder weapon.
As for any particular argument worrying me from closing statements, I'd have to say 'Nope" I'm good!

 

[Tuffy]

I am troubled by NOTHING.


State KNOCKED THE BALL OUT OF THE PARK.

I think they did too. I will be really disappointed if she isn't convicted on Murder 1.

 

[GeekyGirl]

There must have been some significance to the chloroform searches other than mere curiosity, otherwise ICA would not have deleted the searches before the chloroform even became an issue. What it tells me is that it is highly possible KC was making chloroform for her own personal use (to 'win over' Ricardo) as well as a babysitting aid. I believe on June 16th, KC felt the need for a permanent babysitter...not just a one nighter. The duct tape sealed the deal, if you will, and was easier to prove in court as the murder weapon.
As for any particular argument worrying me from closing statements, I'd have to say 'Nope" I'm good!

I understand what you're saying about the deletion looking hinkey, I just don't understand why Casey would need to manufacture chloroform. What do you mean by win over? To impress him? Or to, ahem, "get close" to him? If you meant the latter, I can't imagine, logistically, it would be a useful tool for a woman who wants to "take advantage" of a man. As for using it on Caylee as a "babysitter" it's not really a useful tool there either, chloroform is a short acting sedative. She'd only get about 15 minutes of peace and quiet before it would need to be readministered. There are easier, longer acting and more effective ways of getting a child to sleep (not that it's EVER right to drug a child solely for that purpose). I can't see the idea of her using it in that context making sense to any juror who has a medical background. If she ever drugged Caylee with chloroform, I would bet my next paycheck that she only did it once.

I agree that if they come back with a murder charge, it'll be based on the duct tape.

 

[gxm]

How do we know it was indeed Casey who researched "how to make chloroform" vs another member of the house? Was GA at work also at the time?
I am convinced Casey is guilty but, do not trust that GA had something to do with a cover-up story involving a staged kidnapping scene.
It doesn't make any logical sense though unless, it wasn't an accident and CA came to her Dad who is a former homicide detective to help her cover-up Caylee's death. Maybe told him it was a accident but, but caused by negligent or unintentional child abuse.
So many questions still unanswered.
The fact that Caylee's bio father is not named is like a big elephant in the middle of the room. If CA had a one-night stand, was date raped, hated the bio dad would play into motive of why she didn't bond with Caylee along with her overbearing mother Cindy it might provided ICA the spark that lit the powder keg.

IMO, CA's perjury confirmed that ICA made those searches and that those searches were made with bad intent and had something to do with Caylee's death. Otherwise, no reason for CA to get on the stand and lie about it.

 

[gxm]

I am troubled by NOTHING.


State KNOCKED THE BALL OUT OF THE PARK.

I'm so glad to read your comment. I got laid up with a sprained ankle and have been completely out of the loop for the last two days, so I missed closing statements. I'm just now trying to catch up.

 

[GeekyGirl]

I'm so glad to read your comment. I got laid up with a sprained ankle and have been completely out of the loop for the last two days, so I missed closing statements. I'm just now trying to catch up.

Eeek... I know you weren't talking to me, but I'm sorry to hear about your ankle Bad sprains are a b****, I'd rather have a simple fracture any day.

 

[gxm]

Eeek... I know you weren't talking to me, but I'm sorry to hear about your ankle Bad sprains are a b****, I'd rather have a simple fracture any day.

Thanks, GeekyGirl. It hurt as bad, if not more, as when I broke my wrist, and I really thought it might be broken. The worst part is that without a cast, I know I'll be tempted to do more than I should sooner than I should. I can't tolerate just laying around with my foot propped up!

(Apologies for going OT)

 

[GeekyGirl]

Thanks, GeekyGirl. It hurt as bad, if not more, as when I broke my wrist, and I really thought it might be broken. The worst part is that without a cast, I know I'll be tempted to do more than I should sooner than I should. I can't tolerate just laying around with my foot propped up!

(Apologies for going OT)

One more OT response and then I promise, I'm done! They are bad... They can take longer to heal than fractures so be careful. It's frustrating now, but the longer you give it to rest and heal, the sooner you'll be back to normal!