GUILTY WI - Apple River multiple stabbing; one teen dead, 4 other people hurt; 52 year old man arrested, July 2022

[AnyNameIWish]

Jury does not seem to be interested in the initial confrontation with NM and the teen boys.

@nodamselindistress
Why do you think so?
I'm wondering because as I was writing out above, I started to think so too... MC and RM didn't know the facts of that initial encounter anyway, so I'm inclined to start at the encounter between NM and the Carlson party


Unrelated but eta

THERE IS NO evidence that says Isaac was killed before NM was pushed into the water. What? No one even said this or testified to such a thing. Everyone was laughing at him UNTIL he stabbed AJ who had come at him from behind, but it took a while for the teens to notice that blood was involved and people were really hurt, in their impaired state.

 

[turaj]

at the time of the pushing down based on crowd comments and sound I don't think anyone had been stabbed yet. The fact they asked for more video tells me they definitely are not in agreement at this time. Cockfield incited the crowd to more and more anger and he should be held accountable as weil.

 

[nodamselindistress]

@nodamselindistress
Why do you think so?
I'm wondering because as I was writing out above, I started to think so too... MC and RM didn't know the facts of that initial encounter anyway, so I'm inclined to start at the encounter between NM and the Carlson party


Unrelated but eta

THERE IS NO evidence that says Isaac was killed before NM was pushed into the water. What? No one even said this or testified to such a thing.

I think that because they asked to re-watch starting at the altercation between NM and MC. Whatever they think about the initial encounter with the teen boys and the snorkel and mask seems they have agreed on and don't need to see it again to settle any differences. Or maybe they dismissed the initial encounter with the teen boys as irrelevant. Hard to know what the jury actually thinks at this point, just stating their focus seems to be on the altercation between NM and MC.

 

[TTF14]

Self defense is an acceptable motive if you fear great bodily harm, not just death, and I was glad this was pointed out because I think it's what happened here. There was a frenzy, he was in a panic because of all of these horrible drunk bullies. I don't think he meant to kill anyone, but he did mean to let them know he meant business and wanted to protect himself from them.

It must be extremely difficult to be a parent of one of these people involved. Obviously they want a conviction, but there also must be a mix of shame about how your children were behaving! I'd be mortified. But I'd still want a conviction because I love my kids. And maybe not just the parents, but the young adults themselves. They have to be feeling embarrassed by seeing their rudeness on display like this. Over and over again.

Such a tough case. I do not envy these jurors. But I'd have to vote not guilty based on two things: Fear of great bodily harm and being "not sure" that any conviction with the word murder in it is the right one.

 

[danablue1]

It almost seems to me that he had his knife concealed in his hand, ready, before anything.physical really happened between them. At one point in the video he's actually smiling almost like he's enjoying this? What I have a problem with is he just didn't stab them in the leg to wound them. He stabbed them in vital places so intending to kill. JMO

 

[turaj]

It will be a credit to this jury if it is not hung. I think the compromise verdict of reckless homicide might make it possible . Since it is two men jurors that are alternates that means the "sleeping woman juror" is still on. The state wanted her off so they must see her as a problem. I think a hung jury is popssibe but hope not.

 

[arielilane]

Dr. G Explains (YouTube) does a 10 minute video about this case. Thought it worth it, and hope to see Behavior Panel do one. moo

 

[Tippy Lynn]

at the time of the pushing down based on crowd comments and sound I don't think anyone had been stabbed yet. The fact they asked for more video tells me they definitely are not in agreement at this time. Cockfield incited the crowd to more and more anger and he should be held accountable as weil.

Take a look at this. It wasn't until I watched this one where things became clear for me. After watching it it's hard to dispute the fact Issac was stabbed prior to NM being pushed down.

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[housewife]

Imagine this case without the video and there was only the testimony.

I know. We are lucky that Miu was caught. Miu was very worried about people taking his photo that day.

When Officer Hart tells him someone died:
"What other pictures did they give you of me?"

 

[turaj]

that is helpful....i too wonder how Issac got stabbed....I thought the comments made about the sort of mob mentality and so many standing around not even rendering aid to those injured is interesting. Cockfield...did he help anyone? Each and every parent that watched their teens in this video must be so very sad....I think most were good good kids but some really seemed to get into this confrontation and they were the ones not injured.

 

[AnyNameIWish]

Take a look at this. It wasn't until I watched this one where things became clear for me. After watching it it's hard to dispute the fact Issac was stabbed prior to NM being pushed down

I watched it and still don't see how Isaac would have been stabbed before they pushed NM down.

Grey at one point claims Isaac was stabbed before everyone because it's the only thing that fits his perception, but he then says "when was Isaac stabbed, I'm really at a loss on that one"... around 17:00 on the video you provided..

 

[turaj]

You know a classic the cover up is worse than anything. He had every intention of getting out of there and never getting caught. He knew full well what he had done....played so very dumb and then started with the lies...non stop. I can't get over his floating away with his group.

 

[housewife]

And MC is also responsible for her actions...yes? Big girl used her words, aggressively as you pointed out. Acts of aggression often lead to violence because the recipient feels threatened.

We are all responsible for our actions, correct!
She used her words.
She even got loud.
She pointed beyond him (but she shouldn't have touched his shoulder)
He didn't like what she said and struck MC in the face.

This is not an appropriate response.
If a woman (or anyone) says "no, leave me/us alone", they do not deserve violence.

There is a whole movement called #whenwomenrefuse.
It's still socially acceptable for women to be blamed for men's violence because they simply said: "No".

Miu was not an authority figure for the river that day. Nobody had to defer to his problematic behavior that day.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

You know a classic the cover up is worse than anything. He had every intention of getting out of there and never getting caught. He knew full well what he had done....played so very dumb and then started with the lies...non stop. I can't get over his floating away with his group.

Same. Makes me think he knew he snapped and it wasn't self defense.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

I watched it and still don't see how Isaac would have been stabbed before they pushed NM down.

Grey at one point claims Isaac was stabbed before everyone because it's the only thing that fits his perception, but he then says "when was Isaac stabbed, I'm really at a loss on that one"... around 17:00 on the Hughes video.

Because the actual stabbing wan't captured on video. The video clearly puts the sequence of events together though.

 

[mickey2942]

Why did his wife file for divorce the next day? Was this to protect assets? I wonder if any of NM victims or their families will file a civil lawsuit?

 

[TTF14]

Why did his wife file for divorce the next day? Was this to protect assets? I wonder if any of NM victims or their families will file a civil lawsuit?

I think they did say, when the jury wasn't in the room, that this was a financial decision, yes.

 

[danablue1]

Take a look at this. It wasn't until I watched this one where things became clear for me. After watching it it's hard to dispute the fact Issac was stabbed prior to NM being pushed down.

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when was IS stabbed. it was after AJ was stabbed because you can see him in the background behind everyone in the purple shorts and white hat. I just don't get when and where it happened

 

[mzmarymac]

You know a classic the cover up is worse than anything. He had every intention of getting out of there and never getting caught. He knew full well what he had done....played so very dumb and then started with the lies...non stop. I can't get over his floating away with his group.

OR....being in a state of shock, he went into auto-protect-mode. He's an engineer, so his mind was probably internally trying to sort through what just happened and realizing quite quickly that (not realizing there was a video) this would be a case of an angry mob of people's words against his. Just like his reaction to being surrounded physically, I would imagine he would feel the same about being surrounded after the fact and being arrested and railroaded. He went into self-preservation mode. I get it. I really wish he didn't lie on the stand about it saying he didn't remember. He should have just been up front. He wasn't under legal obligation to say or do anything at that point so why lie? He should have just explained that he lied because he was scared. That is understandable. Not scared because it is evidence of a guilty mind, but rather evidence of someone being fearful of spending the rest of their life in prison for what just happened even if they know they were not guilty of anything. I hope I am making sense.

 

[AnyNameIWish]

Why did his wife file for divorce the next day? Was this to protect assets? I wonder if any of NM victims or their families will file a civil lawsuit?

To protect assets, Yes. That's what I think, Chauvin did the same thing.

Yes, I foresee a civil suit as well, it's a good way to keep the story in the news and in the usa, a civil suit is one more way to put NM thru the wringer.