IA IA - Johnny Gosch, 12, West Des Moines, 5 Sept 1982 #4

[cocomod]

I have been doing a bit of a deep dive on this case and I believe Johnny did visit Noreen. I do have a theory as to why he did not visit his father as well as to why Noreen did not report the visit until she was under oath. I do think there is a very high probability Jeff Gannon is Johnny Gosch. I am not one to get attached to conspiracy theories but I do believe this case was surrounded by corruption and related to sex trafficking.

James Dale Guckert a.k.a. Jeff Gannon was born May 22, 1957. He is too old to be Johnny Gosch. IMVHO

 

[scruffydog]

I have been doing a bit of a deep dive on this case and I believe Johnny did visit Noreen. I do have a theory as to why he did not visit his father as well as to why Noreen did not report the visit until she was under oath. I do think there is a very high probability Jeff Gannon is Johnny Gosch. I am not one to get attached to conspiracy theories but I do believe this case was surrounded by corruption and related to sex trafficking.

I respectfully disagree. I do not think that Johny visited Noreen. I feel that it was either an incredibly vivid dream experienced by a heartbroken, hopeful mother, or a sad, sad attempt to keep visibility heightened on the case with hopes of continued investigation.

 

[Sneaker33]

James Dale Guckert a.k.a. Jeff Gannon was born May 22, 1957. He is too old to be Johnny Gosch. IMVHO

I am not convinced the information is accurate. I did watch an old interview and I think he could have easily resolved the debate if he his DNA tested. It was reported he did not. This does not mean he is Johnny but I do not understand why he has refused and needed a lawyer buddy to talk for him in the interview.

 

[Sneaker33]

I respectfully disagree. I do not think that Johny visited Noreen. I feel that it was either an incredibly vivid dream experienced by a heartbroken, hopeful mother, or a sad, sad attempt to keep visibility heightened on the case with hopes of continued investigation.

This is possible. I had heard of this visit years ago but it has only recently believed this more likely to be true. I do think Johnny G was targeted for the reason of child sex trafficking. The father's alleged suicide ideation earlier in 1982, if true, is concerning. Noreen claims to have requested a welfare check on him while he was at a hotel business trip. The strange phone calls etc.

 

[thefragile7393]

I respectfully disagree. I do not think that Johny visited Noreen. I feel that it was either an incredibly vivid dream experienced by a heartbroken, hopeful mother, or a sad, sad attempt to keep visibility heightened on the case with hopes of continued investigation.

Or it could have been someone in person...for whatever horrible reasons

 

[Sneaker33]

Or it could have been someone in person...for whatever horrible reasons

I lean towards it was Johnny. However, I have never met Noreen and I don't know much about her. I know people can experience hallucinations during extreme grief and depression. However, if this was a hallucination I would have expected it to have occurred closer to his disappearance such as anniversary of 1st year. I don't think she would be so convinced if it was caused by grief. She has stated she had seen JG one more time after 1997 visit. If she has found him and is able to meet with him I would think she would do this quietly. There seems like there should be a way to keep former victims safe and an opportunity for them to get treatment. Such horrible abuse.

 

[dotr]

Sep 5, 2023

Hometown Tragedy Episode Examines the Disappearance of Iowa Paperboys

Watch Very Local

www.kcci.com

Jan 26, 2023
''KCCI provided footage, analysis, and interviews for the episode. Producers talked with former KCCI News Director Dave Busiek, the first reporter on the scene of Gosch’s disappearance. They also interviewed Gosch’s mother, Noreen Gosch, who has spent decades focusing public attention on the search for her son.

Using archival footage and new interviews, Hometown Tragedy investigates true crimes that rocked communities across America and explores the impact on those left to seek justice. New episodes from season 3 are available weekly through March 1st, and the first 2 seasons of Hometown Tragedy can be streamed on-demand anytime.''

 

[Megnut]

An Iowa paperboy disappeared 41 years ago. His mother is still on the case

Johnny Gosch became one of the first “milk carton kids” after vanishing one Sunday morning in 1982. His mother hasn’t given up looking for him, and his case keeps getting stranger.

www.cnn.com

 

[ekardh]

I lean towards it was Johnny. However, I have never met Noreen and I don't know much about her. I know people can experience hallucinations during extreme grief and depression. However, if this was a hallucination I would have expected it to have occurred closer to his disappearance such as anniversary of 1st year. I don't think she would be so convinced if it was caused by grief. She has stated she had seen JG one more time after 1997 visit. If she has found him and is able to meet with him I would think she would do this quietly. There seems like there should be a way to keep former victims safe and an opportunity for them to get treatment. Such horrible abuse.

I believe it was the act of a desperate parent trying to keep her son's case in the limelight. Although I don't rule out the possibility it was psychosis either. Psychosis can be brought on by many things, and there's nothing to say that it necessarily should've occurred early into Johnny's disappearance, as opposed to later on, when the years of turmoil have taken their toll on Noreen's mental health, not to mention what other changes she may have been undergoing at the time.

Either way, it didn't happen imo.

 

[Cascadia Mount]

I just heard of this case from the CNN interview. I don't believe the story about Johnny coming back to Noreen. After all the years of searching how could she have just let him go? If her story is true then why is Johnny still considered a missing person? If there really is someone who knows where Johnny is why havne't they been pressured harder? It could have been a dream or psychosis. As a person of faith I might consider it a visitation. Very odd.

 

[FergusMcDuck]

There was so much useless stuff in that article. Con artist Bonacci, the Franklin hoax. I do appreciate they mentioning the silver Ford Fairmont that likely took Johnny, not the blur Ford Fairmont Noreen has insisted on the the mid-80s since it would keep blue car guy ("Emilio") as the kidnapper - despite blue car guy probably being completely uninvolved. Oh, an the tall guy likely never existed.

 

[Cascadia Mount]

There was so much useless stuff in that article. Con artist Bonacci, the Franklin hoax. I do appreciate they mentioning the silver Ford Fairmont that likely took Johnny, not the blur Ford Fairmont Noreen has insisted on the the mid-80s since it would keep blue car guy ("Emilio") as the kidnapper - despite blue car guy probably being completely uninvolved. Oh, an the tall guy likely never existed.

I'm going to watch some of the news segments.

 

[Cascadia Mount]

I have been doing a bit of a deep dive on this case and I believe Johnny did visit Noreen. I do have a theory as to why he did not visit his father as well as to why Noreen did not report the visit until she was under oath. I do think there is a very high probability Jeff Gannon is Johnny Gosch. I am not one to get attached to conspiracy theories but I do believe this case was surrounded by corruption and related to sex trafficking.

I don't believe she would have just let him leave. And if it were true I don't see why she would keep searching for him.

 

[KonaHonu]

I'm pretty sure I heard of this case long ago but never paid much attention to it. After seeing the cnn.com story this morning I spent several hour today digging in to this case and some of the associated events/accusations. There is a LOT going on here! And a heck of a lot of coincidences and unusual deaths. I'm not usually one to accept conspiracy theories but I think there might be something to this one.

Much of my initial information came from a report the original FBI agent who investigated in 1982 wrote in 2000. To be completely honest, I think he was a little bonkers by then. His report was linked on this forum in Thread #1 I think but I won't repost it because I'm not sure if it would still be allowed. There is a lot of crazy stuff brought up. I was able to verify a lot of it independently. For example, the investigator for the state legislature was killed in a very strange plane crash in the middle of the investigation when he was apparently bringing incriminating evidence back from Chicago. The crash can be verified in NTSB reports. And get this, the police chief in Omaha who botched the initial investigation of Gosch and was himself accused of crimes that the crash victim was investigating including child m0lestation and he was working as a police chief at the time of the crash in Aurora Illinois near Chicago!

Very wild coincidences in this case!

 

[FergusMcDuck]

I'm pretty sure I heard of this case long ago but never paid much attention to it. After seeing the cnn.com story this morning I spent several hour today digging in to this case and some of the associated events/accusations. There is a LOT going on here! And a heck of a lot of coincidences and unusual deaths. I'm not usually one to accept conspiracy theories but I think there might be something to this one.

Much of my initial information came from a report the original FBI agent who investigated in 1982 wrote in 2000. To be completely honest, I think he was a little bonkers by then. His report was linked on this forum in Thread #1 I think but I won't repost it because I'm not sure if it would still be allowed.

Gunderson wasn't an FBI agent in 1982 and he didn't investigate the Gosch case back then. Basically, he quit the FBI in the late 70s when the Bureau began to clean up its act (from the whole "bugging and blackmailing MLK"-era) and Gunderson didn't like that since it would make it more difficult to uncover the shadowy conspiracies he fervently believed in. And as soon as he quit, naturally the FBI became a huge part of those shadowy conspiracies. Gunderson lent his name and fake credibility to every nutcase satanic panic case during the 80s and 90s after which he began to cozy up to holocaust deniers before he died.

There is a lot of crazy stuff brought up. I was able to verify a lot of it independently. For example, the investigator for the state legislature was killed in a very strange plane crash in the middle of the investigation when he was apparently bringing incriminating evidence back from Chicago.

The person he had flown to meet was Rusty Nelson, photographer and CSAM-creator, who had promised hard evidence. Caradori never said he actually got anything from Nelson, but we can guess: Rusty Nelson would go on to promise evidence and subsequently string along at least two other gullible investigators - the aforementioned Gunderson and journalist Nick Bryant. He never gave either of them anything.

As far as I know, there is nothing very odd about the plane crash - sometimes they happen, and the investigation turned up nothing.

The crash can be verified in NTSB reports. And get this, the police chief in Omaha who botched the initial investigation of Gosch and was himself accused of crimes that the crash victim was investigating including child m0lestation and he was working as a police chief at the time of the crash in Aurora Illinois near Chicago!

The police chief (Wadman) in Omaha, Nebraska never worked the Johnny Gosch case, since he disappeared in Des Moines, Iowa. Wadman was the police chief accused by Alicia Owens of molesting her, and falsely accused of being the father of her child (Owens was convicted of perjury). Wadman did work as police chief of Aurora Illinois, but that doesn't matter since the plane crashed near Ashton, 60 miles away.

Very wild coincidences in this case!

Sadly, most of them are invented by dishonest parties like John DeCamp and Ted Gunderson.

 

[KonaHonu]

Alisha got an unusually long time for perjury which is suspicious.

The police chief was wrapped up in the Franklin case which is circumstantially connected to Gosch.

I agree with your suggested points that the connections are a bit of a stretch. But there are enough that I think theye should be run to ground.

I think one big issue we may have is that I am assuming with minimal evidence that Decamp is solid. If this is wrond please send me the evidence.

I'm open minded with no preconceived opinions but find this case interesting

 

[FergusMcDuck]

Alisha got an unusually long time for perjury which is suspicious.

The police chief was wrapped up in the Franklin case which is circumstantially connected to Gosch.

I agree with your suggested points that the connections are a bit of a stretch. But there are enough that I think theye should be run to ground.

I think one big issue we may have is that I am assuming with minimal evidence that Decamp is solid. If this is wrond please send me the evidence.

I'm open minded with no preconceived opinions but find this case interesting

Have you read his book about the Franklin case? At the end there's a whole chapter about how the Oklahoma City bombing was actually done by government infiltrators and that the government then covered it up so they could go after the far-right militias (of which DeCamp was a close friend and ally). To me that just eradicates his credibility completely.

It's funny, I'm in a reddit convo right now about this very topic, and someone mentioned that DeCamp had named Jerry Sandusky (of Penn State abuse case fame) already in the 90s as part of the Omaha ring, long before he was charged and became a public figure. However, the sole source for this was a 2012 interview with DeCamp, where DeCamp himself said reporters had been calling him since the Penn State story broke, asking how he knew about Sandusky in the 90s.

But Sandusky isn't mentioned in the book, not by name or reference. I have it, and I searched through it multiple times. DeCamp straight up lied to the public in 2012.

 

[Vern]

I agree with your suggested points that the connections are a bit of a stretch. But there are enough that I think theye should be run to ground.

RSBM,

IMO they have already been 'run into the ground' and there's never been found to be any there there.

The only ones who keep insisting despite that investigating that there's a there there, are the conspiracy nutters. For them, there will never be enough 'investigating' as one simply can't prove a negative.

 

[Marzipan]

RSBM,

IMO they have already been 'run into the ground' and there's never been found to be any there there.

The only ones who keep insisting despite that investigating that there's a there there, are the conspiracy nutters. For them, there will never be enough 'investigating' as one simply can't prove a negative.

I’ve followed this case lightly forever, tangentially since I thought it might have been related to Jacob Wetterling’s abduction but that’s unlikely now with his case resolution. I am glad others can sort out the facts with this recent CNN story, but it’s great that the story happened. It would be really helpful if the reporter — or another one — would keep going. I’d want the ideal journalist, one who is very aware of how easy it can become to develop biases and practice overly hopeful reporting. I’d like one who can fearlessly dig into those government spy conspiracies but also the run-of-the-mill pedos and the similar cases from the same area and era.
We all know that a simple and terrible abduction and murder is more likely than sex trade when it comes to a child from what at the time looked like a functional home with involved parents. They look for kids who won’t be missed, or those from communities without the resources to investigate. This is why it was unlikely along that Jacob W was still alive, despite the many “sightings” over the decades. He had an involved family and well resourced community. And it turned out, and thank God they found the truth, he was killed that night by his lone abductor.
The idea that Johnny is out there, visiting old fellow victims, married with a family, borrowing a car seat, and according to many storytellers showing up at bars and telling his story to customers and his own mechanic… well there are a lot of storytellers out there. If I were Noreen and believe any of these stories I’d be pretty upset he isn’t visiting me more too. Because how afraid could Johnny be if Bonacci isn’t afraid to interview with a CNN reporter?
I hope the CNN reporter follows up, can maybe clarify some info about what she already reported, and debunk or at least better explain some of the conspiracy theories. Better yet, a small team of reporters with varied views working together.
The hardest of all is if Johnny was killed right away like Jacob, maybe buried in a nearby field all along. With the passing of time it could still be possible to identify his lone pedo killer with serious investigation and a lot of luck. But not for much longer.

 

[KonaHonu]

As far as I know, there is nothing very odd about the plane crash - sometimes they happen, and the investigation turned up nothing.

Airplanes don't "sometimes happen" to breakup midair. I read the available NTSB yesterday. It is only 5 pages long. The weather was not that bad and he reported a problem with his compass just before the plane broke up. Yes, of course it is possible that the plane just broke up because the pilot lost control and overstressed the airplane trying to recover. I don't think it was a bomb though because radar indicated rapid changes in altitude before the plane hit the ground. That does not happen after the wings have fallen off. There have been 249 crashes of that aircraft make and model in the United States since 1980. Almost all have been "controlled flight into terrain" i. e. the pilot did not lose control but simply failed to maintain proper altitude. I could find no other instance of that aircraft type simply breaking up midair

Taken alone, I would call it an unfortunate coincidence. But combined with all the weird deaths of siblings of kids who were set to testify in the Franklin investigation and other coincidences, I'm going to keep digging. Will anything come of it? Of course not for many reasons. But I do find it interesting.