The Rest of the Story...

While mainstream America is busy tisk tisking those crazy "sect" people here is what we have going on in our own culture -



Child Predators Citations

Among girls 15 and younger who become pregnant, between 60 and 80 percent of them are impregnated by adult men.


Data shows that as the age of the victim goes down, the age of the perpetrator goes up.


Average age of men who father children with girls under 14 is now higher than the average age of men who father children with 18-year-olds.

When compared to girls who are sexually active with boys near their own age, these girls are more likely to:

Have multiple sex partners

Drop out of school

Engage in dangerous sexual behaviors

Become pregnant

Runaway from home and be lured into prostitution

Abuse drugs or alcohol

End up on welfare

Be estranged from friends and family

Be in physically abusive relationships

Become divorced

The highest rate of sexually transmitted diseases in America is found among females ages 15 to 19, and that the overwhelming majority of these girls contracted these diseases from adult males.

Abortion industry data showing that underage girls given abortion or birth control are not being reported. Backed up by government documentation.

http://www.lifeissues.org/misc/documentation.html
 
Here are some of the more interesting Qs & As being discussed in the comments section over on Brookes blog:

On the concept of "we must always obey the laws of the land..." the following line of reason was offered -

"Wouldn't you agree that the answer depends on what the "law" considers a "felony offense" and whether that definition is consistent with natural law or and rights of man?

It was, at one time, a felony offense in most states to assist a "negro" slave in running away from his/her master. If you had been practicing at that time, in Texas, wouldn't your "law and order" ethic require you to lock up members of the underground railroad?

Likewise, it was at one time, in Germany, a felony punishable by death to assist Jews to get out of the country. Would you take the government's position in such a case?

How is the Eldorado case any different than those? You have a government, the State of Texas, that has widely broadcast that it's purpose in writing the law it now seeks to enforce against the FLDS was, in fact, to enforce it only against the FLDS in order to drive them out of the State.

Do you support the State of Texas in this action? And if so, on what moral grounds do you do so?

Isn't it our duty as human beings to violate immoral laws?"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



An observation on the underage aged girls involved with the FLDS 5-

"One thing that caught my eye is that all the girls except one are described as "under 17" and the last is described as "under 16". So all but one were sixteen.
Now a sixteen year old girl can get an abortion in this country without anybody's consent. The lawmakers (supposedly representing society)decided girls of that age are mature enough to make their own "choice" on that. Mature enough to weigh the options, understand the risks and make that decision all on her own without any input from adults. They will vehemently defend this position.

Suddenly the girls maturity level and right to make her own choices about her sexuality end at allowing her to choose whom she wishes to have sex with?"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Comment about the Dr. involved in the FLDS case-

From the indictments:
"... on or about the 20th day of May, 2007 ... Lloyd Hammond Barlow ... having delivered a baby from [blanked], a child, had cause to believe that [blanked] had been abused or neglected or may be abused or neglected, or that the child was a victim of the offense of Indecency with a Child ...did fail to make a report not later than the 48th hour after he first suspected ..."

With one of the nation's highest birthrates coming from under aged 'children', there wouldn't be a Texas hospital that could birth babies IF there was any --even the tiniest shred-- of equal enforcement. Of course that law's been in effect two years and no effort's been made to actually use it ... until the FLDS.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A comparison of the same events using a mainstream minority situation-

I call a child abuse hotline and tell them I know of a specific public park that has a number of young men, all past high school age hanging out, and there are always several of the 'baby mamas' hanging out with them, and I know several of those 'baby mamas' to be under fifteen yrs of age....
and further, I know one is named Shanique, and she feels as though coercion is being used to force her to have babies...
You're telling me that CPS is going to go into that public park, take all the stroller babies and toddlers on the gym set into custody, as well as all the 'baby mamas' that LOOK underage, even if they produce identification...and they're further going to ask all the young men for swabs for DNA testing....
and then they're going to convene a grand jury...and, so on and so forth....and they're going to prosecute all these folks for sexual assault....
Puhleeeeees
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I personally pause at calling the FLDS situation genocide. It is hard to use that term in light of more serious extremes such as what occurred in Germany with the Jews or what occurred here in America with the Native Americans. Nevertheless, this comment was thought provoking.


http://www.preventgenocide.org/genocide/officialtext.htm

Genocide is narrowly defined by international law ratified by the United Nations and as a member nation the US is subject to this law.

What is it you are confused by TBM? It's pretty clear how the law defines genocide. Very specifically the removal of children is included in the definition.

"Forcible transfer of children may be imposed by direct force or by fear of violence, duress, detention, psychological oppression or other methods of coercion. The Convention on the Rights of the Child defines children as persons under the age of 18 years."

Also, it clearly states that nobody has to be killed:

"Genocidal acts need not kill or cause the death of members of a group. Causing serious bodily or mental harm, prevention of births and TRANSFER OF CHILDREN are acts of genocide when committed as part of a policy to destroy a group’s existence." (emphasis supplied)

. The law is clearly written, applicable and enforceable in the US.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Some observations about the Indictments -

"Leroy Jessops bigamy charge is probably a "test" case, and the one that they have the least evidence of "assault"

In Texas, it is against the law for an adult to have sex with anyone under the age of 17, unless they are legally married. So each of the indictments for sexual assault refer to the victim as "under 17".

The indictment that refers to the girl who is "under 16" is for bigamy. In Texas it is unlawful to marry someone who is under the age of 16. I suspect, but don't know for sure, that the same girl is mentioned in both of Merril Jessop's indictments, yet she is referred to as "under 17" in the sexual assault indictment and "under 16" in the bigamy indictment.

However, these five indictments are being used to support the original accusation of CPS, that there is a 'pervasive' belief in and practice of adult men having sex with under-aged girls.

And while the Supreme Court did return the children, I do not think it's moot to point out that CPS' goal was to remove ALL YfZ children regardless of evidence of abuse, complaints, reports, or anything else, and including children NOT YET BORN. The reason I don't think it's moot is because CPS hasn't closed out a single case yet. I think we need to keep our eyes on what they are doing so they don't try it again, just more quietly.

And these five men, even if they are guilty (and personally, I'm not going to be shocked or deeply dismayed if it turns out they are convicted) do not a 'pervasive climate' make. Adult men having sex with under-aged girls is clearly less 'pervasive' in the YfZ than the rest of Texas, since Texas leads the nation in teen pregnancies, some 40 percent of those are adult men with teen girls, yet Texas has a far less than one percent rate of charging and convicting those adult fathers who are not members of the FLDS."

Here is the link if you would like to read more

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=23675089&postID=3610162069277297013
 
Can you guess correctly?


Parents & children: A natural right of constitutional dimensions
by Kurt Schulzke

Here’s a reader quiz. Please read the following two (relatively short) paragraphs and then choose the author/editor from the options provided below.

In the case of parental rights, “[t]he natural right which exists between parents and their children is one of constitutional dimensions.” A parent’s right to uninterrupted access to and care of her child ranks as “far more precious than property rights,” and indeed is a “fundamental liberty interest protected by the Fourteenth Amendment.” . . . the right of the individual to … marry, establish a home and bring up children, [and] to worship God according to the dictates of one’s own conscience” [are] liberty interests entitled to due process.

Accordingly, courts have singled out for heightened protection that “most essential and basic aspect of familial privacy – the right of the family to remain together without the coercive interference of the awesome power of the state.” “This right to the preservation of family integrity encompasses the reciprocal rights of both parent and children. It is the interest of the parent in the companionship, care, custody and management of his or her children, and of the children in not being dislocated from the emotional attachments that derive from the intimacy of daily association, with the parent.”

Please record in a comment one of the following as your choice:

a. Judge Barbara “Defarge” Walther

b. Abraham Lincoln

c. Justice John Roberts

d. Justice Antonin Scalia

e. Governor Rick “Shoot-First” Perry

f. ACLU of Texas

The answer is in the next post :)
 
Clashing stories, similar DNA hurt FLDS prosecution
But state's case may be helped by records girls kept in their journals
By TERRI LANGFORD
Copyright 2008 Houston Chronicle

Indicting members of a polygamist sect on child sexual assault is one thing.
But prosecuting anyone on child sexual assault charges is a much different, and tougher, thing to accomplish, according to legal experts.
Even if Texas Child Protective Services comes back with a finding that sexual abuse happened at the sect's Yearning for Zion Ranch in West Texas, the standard for a child sexual assault conviction is much higher, said professor Ellen Marrus, who heads the University of Houston's Center for Children, Law and Policy.
"The problem isn't so much proving the issue that there had been sexual contact," Marrus said. "The bigger issue is proving who did it. ... So unless the child testifies that she had sex with a Mr. A or Mr. B, you don't have any proof who did it."

On July 22, FLDS leader Warren Jeffs, 52, and four of his followers — Raymond Merrill Jessop, 36; Allan Eugene Keate, 56; Michael George Emack, 57; and Merrill Leroy Jessop, 33 — were indicted on sexual assault of a child charges. A sixth man, Lloyd Hammon Barlow, 38, was charged with three counts of failure to report child abuse. Jeffs is in custody in Arizona, where he is accused of arranging underage marriages. The other five surrendered to authorities last week.

Under Texas law, sexual assault of a child occurs when an adult has sexual contact with someone younger than 17.

What started with a March 28 complaint that at least one girl was being physically and sexually abused by a man decades her senior — a call now considered a hoax — quickly escalated into the largest, and arguably one of the most complex, child custody cases in the U.S. after CPS and law enforcement officers reached the remote 1,700-acre ranch that sits northeast of the tiny town of Eldorado.

But from the start, the sect's own demographic makeup and culture of providing little information about themselves to outsiders, particularly after a 1953 raid on their homes by Arizona officials, has made this case difficult.......
"We told them the day (of the indictments) we were going to face that thing," Willie Jessop said. "The people are honorable. We don't believe we're criminals."

The level of evidence needed to indict someone is far lower than the type of evidence needed to convict someone "beyond a reasonable doubt." And to convict, prosecutors will need much more than is required by CPS to confirm child sexual abuse occurred.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/life/religion/5922407.html
 
Wisan makes a move in Canada
Here is a story from The Globe and Mail:

LAWSUIT
U.S. official vies for control of polygamist private school

ROBERT MATAS

August 4, 2008
The Globe and Mail

VANCOUVER -- In an unprecedented cross-border initiative, a court-appointed official from the United States is trying to take over a private school in British Columbia run by the polygamist Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

Bruce Wisan, who was appointed by a U.S. court to protect the assets of the FLDS, has launched a lawsuit in B.C. Supreme Court seeking authority to gain control of the Bountiful Elementary-Secondary School located in a rural area outside Creston, B.C.

Mr. Wisan said in a telephone interview from Salt Lake City, Utah, that he became involved in Canada as a result of the split within the community between followers of FLDS leader Warren Jeffs and supporters of Canadian Winston Blackmore.

He said his interest in the school arises from the refusal of the FLDS group to allow children from families supporting Mr. Blackmore to attend the school. ''The non-FLDS, which is in the majority, got kicked out of the school. They are not even allowed to use the school playgrounds,'' Mr. Wisan said.

Mr. Wisan is also considering a contentious scheme to impose a monthly assessment on Canadian members to pay for sewage and maintenance costs for 48 rural properties in the southeast corner of B.C.

The aggressive moves by the U.S. certified accountant based in Salt Lake City are a sharp contrast to the approach of B.C. authorities.

Despite controversy over polygamy and the teachings at the school run by the religious sect, the provincial Education Ministry continues to contribute hundreds of thousands of dollars to the school's operations.

Also, for more than 15 years, the B.C. government has been debating whether to take any action against members of the religious sect.

Mr. Wisan said he launched the lawsuit to force an equitable distribution of FLDS assets in Canada. He has asked the court to remove the FLDS members as directors of the society that runs the school and to appoint him as the trustee to regulate its affairs. He has also asked the court to designate him as the beneficial owner of the school properties.

Mr. Wisan is considering an assessment on FLDS members in Canada to pay for infrastructure maintenance on the properties. ''The FLDS living on the property will not contribute or deal with any community infrastructure issues,'' he said.

This fee could spark further confrontation, Mr. Wisan conceded.

http://blogs.sltrib.com/plurallife/
 

This fee could spark further confrontation, Mr. Wisan conceded.

http://blogs.sltrib.com/plurallife/


Here is a little bit of what that confrontation could consist of -

The school directors in a statement of defense deny the society acquired the school properties in trust for the UEP. They also challenge whether Mr. Wisan has a right to initiate the court action in Canada.
 
On the idea that the FLDS are a "cult and not an authentic religion....


"Authentic is in the eyes of the beholder. All religion is bizarre. Look at Christianity. Three separate entities (father, Son, Holy Ghost) rolled into one God, the Holy Ghost comes down and impregnates virgins and the Son could walk on water, turn water into wine, cast out demons, instantly clone fish and bread and raise himself from the dead. Yet, his closet companions couldn’t recognize him upon his resurrection.

How is it not institutional abuse to teach that, or that the Earth is 6,000 years old, or that Evolution doesn’t exist?"

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cach...ges&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us&client=firefox-a
 
On the issue of reassigning families in the FLDS.
The article below was written by one who is neither FLDS nor LDS. It gives a very clear and concise overview on what it is exactly that makes a practice that to mainstream people seems ridiculous, actually makes sense if you begin with the core beliefs the FLDS are beginning with.
Once again it becomes important for all of us who would like to make sense of this deeply complicated case that we listen with ears that hear beyond our own values and belief systems. We can do this when we first of all understand one basic principle which is that a person can understand something without approving of it. The difference in understanding and agreeing is beautifully covered below -



"I don't like the reassigning of wives (and I do not think it's antithetical to Joseph Smith's own teachings and practices), and I think it's a problem that isn't going to go away so long as the faulty underlying theology that supports it remains in place.

The FLDS, like the old mainstream Mormons of the 19th century, believed that when you die, if you have been faithful, worked hard enough, and have been 'sealed,'- that is married for all eternity, then you go to the Celestial Kingdom where you will become gods and goddess, procreating eternally, and participating fully in the work of creation, creating and people worlds and universes of your own, where the man will be the Heavenly Father for those children he and his wives produce and send to live on the worlds created by these new deities. The LDS used to have a slogan, "As man is, God once was, as God is, man will become." I say used to, because in 1997 then LDS President Gorden Hinkley seemed to repudiate it, or at least dismiss it as basically not much more than a couplet he didn't know much about. Whatever the current status of this teaching in the mainstream LDS, it's still what the FLDS believe.

They also believe in the same teaching mainstream Mormons used to believe (and some still do, but I understand it's dying out quietly and slowly) that the woman would not be resurrected until her husband called her name- her new name, given to her in the temple during one of the temple ceremonies. (for other once mainstream LDS teachings that have gone by the wayside but are probably still FLDS teachings, try skimming the Journal of Discourses)

If you believe that your resurrection is dependent upon your husband's sanctification and goodwill, and if you believe that the place of the younger children in Heaven is also dependent upon the holiness of the father, it is a natural progression to believe that, should the husband and father lose what the LDS and FLDS call 'priesthood authority' through immoral living or other failings, then you must be connected to a new husband and father, at best until the old one repents and returns to the fold. The reassigning is a Holy Insurance Policy, basically.If you believe that a woman and children are dependent upon the virtues and spiritual excellence of the husband and father, then it follows that earthly marriage and parent child ties not only can, but must be, broken at will for the sake of the eternal security of the woman and children.

I don't believe those things. I think they are anathema. I have been asked, as have others, why it's 'okay' for Warren Jeffs to tell a family they must separate and to reassign a wife and children to a new husband and father, but it's not okay for the State of Texas in the role of CPS to remove 450 children from their homes without any evidence that they have been abused. Isn't this hypocritical, people ask.

I think deeply flawed theological premises result in deeply flawed practices, and that's what we have here, in my opinion. We are free to discuss these issues and even try to persuade others of the correctness of our own view and the errors of somebody else's. It's not the state's job to regulate religious beliefs, so this is a role best played by private citizens.

I also think what we have in the comments of those who consider it hypocritical to judge the actions of the state differently from the actions of individuals, is a deeply flawed understanding of the function of the government and the differences between the government and a private institution.


While I object strongly to the practice of reassigning (because I disagree sharply with the theology that underlies it), there remains a fundamental difference between Warren Jeffs claiming this power and the state claiming this power. However hard it might be, if you are FLDS and you disagree with the practice, you can walk away. You can say no and leave the fold with your family intact, and there isn't much Warren can do about it. Or you can legally divorce the spouse who remains behind and go through the mess of a custody fight, no different from thousands of other Americans every year who go through the trauma of divorce and broken homes for other reasons which are not any more admirable than this one. Warren Jeffs can force you out of the FLDS. He cannot force you out of your family unless you and your family agree with him.

The state does not need your agreement. It can throw you in jail, prevent you from working with children, force you or your children to take psychotropic drugs, garnish your paycheck, give your children invasive and embarrassing medical exams and a toxic cocktail of vaccinations, move the children from one foster home to another, deny you all rights to see them, tell you that unless your husband moves out of your home (even if he is only guilty of unwittingly giving your son an alcoholic lemon-ade) you will never see your children again, and you have no right, ever, to say, "I disagree, and I won't do this." They don't even have to prove his guilt via criminal charges in a court of law.

You can say no in the FLDS. It may be hard. It may mean leaving the community and religion you love, it may mean walking away from everything else you hold dear- but the FLDS cannot come after you with all the might and power of the State and the unlimited funds taken from taxpayer pockets and force you by law to comply.

http://www.heartkeepercommonroom.blogspot.com/
 
Texas authorities want eight FLDS children back in foster careBy Brooke Adams
The Salt Lake Tribune
Article Last Updated: 08/05/2008 04:08:29 PM MDT


Updated: 4:03 PM- Texas authorities have asked a judge to place eight children from a polygamous sect back in foster care after their mothers refused to sign safety plans that limit their contact with men involved in underage marriages.

The children include six girls and two boys who range in age from 5 to 17, according to Marleigh Meisner, a spokeswoman for Texas Child Protective Services. CPS filed the motions Tuesday with 51st District Judge Barbara Walther
.
Three are children of Barbara Steed and Frederick Merril Jessop, whom are alleged to have permitted illegal marriages between minor daughters and older men or between adults sons and underage girls. Merril Jessop is a church elder who oversaw the Yearning for Zion Ranch in Eldorado, home to members of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

Among those children the state wants to place back in custody is a teenager who was 12 when she was married to sect leader Warren S. Jeffs on July 27, 2006.
That same day, two of Merril Jessop's sons - Merril Leroy Jessop and Raymond Jessop - were married to 15-year-old girls, one of whom is Jeffs' daughter. The brothers were indicted by a Schleicher County Grand Jury last month and are in jail. Merril Leroy Jessop faces felony bigamy and sexual assault charges, while Raymond Jessop faces a sexual assault charge.
The motion lists Amy E. Johnson as the mother of a 13-year-old girl the state wants placed in foster care. Johnson is alleged to have allowed a 15-year-old daughter to be married to an adult man in 2005. Merril Jessop and Wendell Loy Nielsen, to whom Johnson is now married, witnessed the ceremony, the documents state.
Two girls are daughters of Alice F. Barlow and Lloyd Hammon Barlow, a physician who was indicted by the grand jury on three counts of failure to report child abuse. The new court documents allege that one of Barlow's four plural wives was 16 at the time of their marriage and that in April he told state investigators he had overseen births to underage girls at the ranch and other places "many times."

Two other girls are daughters of Ellen G. Young and Nephi Barlow. Young is the sister of Barbara Jessop and also is married to Merril Jessop. The girls lived with the Jessops at the ranch for the past three years while their mother worked in Nevada, according to the documents.
An affidavit filed by a caseworker said Young stated that proposals to limit the girls' contact with Merril Jessop were "an insult to common sense" and allege she abandoned them.

The eight children were among those the state removed 440 children from the YFZ Ranch in April. The state alleged the children were being sexually and physically abused there.

In June, Walther returned the children to their parents after two higher courts said she did not have sufficient evidence they were being abused. Child welfare and criminal investigations into the sect continue, however.

In the past week, the state has begun offering parenting classes designed in part to educate FLDS members about state laws and how to protect their children from abuse. It also is requiring mothers of girls ages 10 to 17 to sign safety plans that include provisions that protect them from sexual abuse.
"For children who lived in a home with a man who married underage girls or agreed to an arranged marriage of an underage daughter, the safety plans include a requirement to keep the children away from that man," Meisner said in a press statement.

The mothers of the eight children listed in the court filing refused to do so, she said.

Meisner also said that CPS filed documents today to dismiss cases involving 32 children because there is either no evidence of underage marriages in their families or their parents have agreed to appropriate steps to protect them from abuse.

She said the state is working primarily with mothers, adding that in "more than half of the YFZ children, no match was found among the 26 fathers who provided DNA samples."

http://www.sltrib.com/News/ci_10105547
 
I finally finished reading these quit lengthy documents. Here is a brief overview of the highlights along with links to the documents themselves.

Case # 2804

THE CHILDREN
Hannah Barlow - 11
Renon Barlow - 9

mother is Ellen Grace Young age 41
She's an accountant by the way - so much for "they don't have any education"

(alleged father is Nephi Barlow)

Looks like Ellen was later married to Frederick Merrill Jessop.

Each of these affidavits goes on and on about what documents the parents must furnish.

Tax returns? Net worth? Health insurance?

This judgement if granted, gives the state the right to determine what if any and all medical care can be given.

In addition, the parents will have to submit to Psychological examinations, as determined by the state

http://web.gosanangelo.com/pdf/2804-motion-8-5-08.pdf




CASE #2928

THE CHILD
Amy Elnora Johnson #age 13

Mother - Amy Johnson age 41
Alleged Father Orval Johnson

After consulting with her attorney she (Amy Johnson) refused to sign the CPS plan.

Mother and daughter are not living at the ranch, but rather in San Antonio.

the wording of the plan says the mother must protect her daughter from anyone who EVER entered into an underage age marriage.


Now how on earth is she supposed to do that? And what about the under aged marriages that occured before the State of Texas raised its own age limit up from 14?

http://web.gosanangelo.com/pdf/2928-motion-8-5-08.pdf



Case 2833 THIS IS THE STATES STRONGEST CASE.

The girl, Merrianne is the one in that disgusting picture of Warren Jeffs kissing a very young girl.)

Sampson, 17 in May - Merrianne, 14 in July - Benjamin Jessop 11, will be 12 in Aug.

mother is Barbara Steed Jessop

she lives in Converse Tx.

alleged father is Frederick Merrill Jessop.

CPS feels this Father and Mother are to harsh in their discipline. One of the ways this was determined is by testimony of an ex wife.

CPS would allow "relatives to take the children as long as they do not live at the ranch.

http://web.gosanangelo.com/pdf/2833-motion-8-5-08.pdf



Case #2925 THIS IS THE STATES WEAKEST CASE

THE CHILDREN
Virginia Kloe Barlow will be 14 in Sept
Lynda Luella 5

Alice Faye 36 (mother)
Lloyd Barlow 39 father



Lloyd Barlow married a 16 year old named Sylvia in 2001. Due to this and the fact that he doesn't report under aged births he is deemed an unfit parent. If his wife will not state that she refuses him access to his children - then she is unfit also.

It is of note that the 16 year old was 'married' in 2001- before one of the children mentioned here was even born. It was also just ten days before her 17th birthday, and it occurred either in Texas, where that was not legally an under-aged relationship at the time, or it occurred in another state which makes it not the concern of the State of Texas. So which is it?

This one also contains some of the rantings and ravings of Warren Jeff's about his "visions" that actually have nothing to do with the children involved. I can only assume they are tossed in to show what a whack job the religious leader is in an attempt to use such flimsy reasons to take away this 14 year old and the 5 year old.

http://web.gosanangelo.com/pdf/2925-motion-8-5-08.pdf
 
I thought it was noteworthy that the lawyers advised the mothers not to sign the "plans" that CPS drew up.

This article explains why


Eight children

Texas Child Protective Services filed motions yesterday asking Judge Barbara Walther to send eight children from four FLDS families back into foster care.

CPS said in its motions that the children's mothers refused to sign safety plans that limit their contact with men who have been involved, as husbands, fathers or witnesses, in underage marriages.

Attorney Stephanie Goodman told me that she advised her client to not sign the safety plan because the document might be used against her in the future. She said her client was willing to verbally commit to the limit and that CPS had the power to see she kept the deal through unannounced home visits.

Attorney Tip Hargrove of San Angelo seemed to be of the same mind, based on court documents characterizing his position.

Hargrove apparently told a CPS caseworker that Grace Young would not sign the plan because it bars her two daughters from having contact with Merril Jessop, their stepfather. While Grace does not live at the ranch, she is likely to visit there and might inadvertently have ''contact'' with Jessop. His client also had agreed to ensure her daughters are not married off while minors.

Grace has apparently left her children in the care of sister Barbara Jessop, also married to Merril, for the past three years while she worked in Nevada and Utah as an accountant. According to the caseworker, Grace and her daughters do not seem to have much of a bond.

Yet, the caseworker also said the older girl reported that she ''misses her mother very much'' and had asked her stepfather repeatedly about her mother when she first came to the ranch. Merril told the girl ''it was none of her business so she has just gotten to the point that she had stopped asking,'' the affidavit states.

After Grace refused to sign the safety plan, CPS decided it would ask her to voluntarily place her children in foster care. She refused. According to the affidavit, Grace has been ''deceptive about her and her children's living arrangements and has not been forth coming with contact information.'' She denied being married to Merril, for instance, though temple records taken from the Yearning for Zion Ranch show they were married on April 20, 2004, the state said.

http://blogs.sltrib.com/plurallife/
 
Some thoughts of posters today -


Riki said...
CPS is trying to entrap these women into saying they are "married" because of what they (CPS) allege the stolen Church records say. Legally, the women are correct. They are not married in the eyes of the law. CPS is just helping the AG's office out with its bigamy persecutions & are getting pissed off because the "weak-minded, stupid, submissive" FLDS women aren't acting the way Carolyn swore they would. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with the "safety" of the children. CPS never gave a damn about those kids in the first place.

BigV said...
I just love the way the push underage marriage as the root of all evil.

I'm sure if some of them researched their own family trees they will find that marriage between the ages of 16 and 18 were the norm, not the exception.

It's just more of the family destruction by our government.


Ron in Houston said...

bigv

You actually make a very valid point. I'll bet that a whole lot of people if they went back less than 100 years would see such marriages in their family.

However, societal norms change and such practices are not longer acceptable and against several laws.
WWJD? said...

CPS was already bench slapped for removing children based on the parents belief about child brides. The court ruled there was no imminent danger to the children.

Now once again CPS is trying to snatch kids that are in no way in imminent danger (boys, and girls that are not even in the age range to be candidates for "marriage" for at least another 3-4 years). Where is the imminent danger to those children?

The only difference I see in CPS argument is the number of kids they're after.

It would be entertaining to see them get their asses handed to them in court again but not at the expense of further trauma to children who have already been put through enough.


abbracadabbra said...


Honestly, I think for CPS to demand that the children have no contact with their own fathers is hitting below the belt, particularly in reference to men who have neither been charged nor convicted of a crime. But I think it is entirely right and reasonable that CPS demand that the mothers commit to not allow their daughters to be married or spiritually united to a man while underaged.


WWJD? said...


According to their attorney's the women have agreed to this (stipulate they will not allow their daughters to participate in spiritual marriage, etc.) but CPS has rejected anything short of the mothers capitulating to their demands that they sign the "safety plan" as is.

The very idea that a mother does not care about her children if she doesn't capitulate to the demands of CPS, right or wrong, is just ludacris. CPS does have legal boundaries as we saw here a few months ago. They routinely choose to ignore those and step all over parents rights every day. They get away with it because they have parents by the short-hairs with threats of taking their kids away. Every one of these women has high powered attorneys counseling them. They stood up to CPS once before and prevailed.

CPS wants to undermine the very existence of these womens parental authority over their own children. Parents should make CPS fight to take away their rights rather than just fall on their knees and hand their parental rights over willingly. Especially if CPS has no legitimate claim to interfere with or take those rights away in the first place.

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=23675089&postID=2187616677973374271
 
Mother on Texas CPS removal ploy: “This defies common sense”
by Kurt Schulzke

Here’s the FLDS quote of the day. The Herald News Daily (have no idea from what hamlet in Texas) reports that one of FLDS mother, when asked to sign a CPS “safety plan” requiring her to keep her and 9- and 10-year-old daughters away from what CPS calls “men involved in underaged marriage,” refused to sign, telling a caseworker she felt it was “an insult to common sense.” My feelings exactly. When given the chance to showcase its ability to craft an intelligent, family-specific safety plan, Texas CPS instead retrogresses to a caveman, one-size-fits-all, biggest-bully on the block approach. Pathetic. Stupid. Typical.

http://iperceive.net/mother-on-texas-cps-removal-ploy-this-defies-common-sense/#comments
 
Four CPS motions filed yesterday — along with signed affidavits and other documents — have been posted on the San Angelo Standard Times website. I have read through one of the four motion packages. My reaction? Pfft! Affidavits, schmaffivadits. We’ve seen too many of those recently. Show me the money.

Until the affiants have been cross-examined and the accompanying documents authenticated (or until I get a greenlight from the respondent parents), I am inclined not to post links to the motions. Why? Because until they are tested in court in a full adversary hearing they carry no more real evidentiary weight than the first goofy affidavit — used to rationalize the original search warrant — sworn out by Texas Ranger Leslie Brooks Long. We simply have to get past the notion that affidavits filed by CPS mean anything until they are rigorously tested.

This latest CPS child grab should be interpreted — at least until the affidavits have been tested — as CPS flexing its muscles.

http://iperceive.net/eldorado-case-about-those-cps-motions-affidavits/#more-723
 
This is a website with legal advice for those dealing with CPS. From the sound of things the FLDS women are handling things correctly. Here is an excerpt of one of their questions with the answer -



4. CPS wants me to sign a "Safety Plan" or they are going to take my children into foster care. What should I do?
A Safety Plan tells you that you have to follow certain rules to keep your children with you in the home. For instance, in many cases, the Safety Plan will instruct you to remove an alleged abuser from your home, or to clean your home, or to participate in counseling. You must ask yourself whether you can follow the Safety Plan - if you can't then you are at risk of having your children removed. You must make sure that both you and CPS understand what exactly the Safety Plan tells you to do or not do. Many children are removed each year because CPS interpreted the Safety Plan differently than the parent did. Ask CPS when does the Safety Plan expire. If no expiration date is given, then you are forever at risk of having your children removed. As always, try to review the Safety Plan with a lawyer before you sign it.

http://www./CM/Features/CPSCASE.asp#4
 
This story was BIG news 3 weeks ago.


Afraid of what sect might do
By Susan Greene
Denver Post Columnist
Article Last Updated: 07/11/2008 10:42:03 PM MDT

Custer County's sheriff is taking a stand.
"We don't want them here," Fred Jobe says of the polygamists who quietly are settling onto his turf. "I just don't want them to think they're gonna move in and take over the county."

As Jobe tells it, followers of Warren Jeffs' Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints have moved into four compounds in Custer County and two in Fremont County. The extent of their influx into south-central Colorado is unclear because few outsiders have been let inside the sect's secrecy fences.

Many locals are wondering why they don't see frumpy-frocked women, their octogenarian husbands and broods of children in town.

"Why don't we run into them in the grocery store, the post office? Why don't they support our businesses?" asks Jane Thomas, who lives yards from a compound near Westcliffe.

At the prodding of an anti-FLDS group called Step Up, Thomas and nearly 200 locals crammed into Custer County Middle School's gym Thursday to learn about their new neighbors from a woman who escaped from a similar sect.
Laurie Allen's documentary, "Banking on Heaven," features accounts of mind-control and child molestation, labor violations and hunger in Colorado City, the FLDS hub on the Arizona-Utah line. Allen raised legitimate concerns about child abuse, welfare fraud and teenage boys cast from the sect so parents can offer their daughters to Jeff's loyal elders.

With rapt applause from her audience, she went further by mocking the religion, which she likens to the Taliban, and deriding its minions as unChristian followers of polygamous Old Testament Jews. Allen — who encourages raids on the group such as the one this year in Eldorado, Texas — raised fears Thursday about the sect propagating like rabbits, drowning deformed babies, taking over county government and engaging in Waco-like standoffs, Jonestown-like mass suicides, Auschwitz-like incinerations and other unneighborly acts of blood atonement.

"We don't want to go around and get everyone scared," she said as she proceeded to agitate the group even further.

"They have no regard for their life," Allen added. "If their prophet tells them to kill your children, they'll do it. Don't underestimate them."

Heady stuff for a rural county whose chamber of commerce touts it as a "refreshing Colorado escape."

I have covered the FLDS, been harassed by polygamous police goons in Colorado City and had my car keyed and a colleague's tire slashed while reporting on women who fled.

I empathize with residents loath to ignore abuses in their neighborhoods and laud them for contemplating safehouses should sect members seek their help.
But there's no evidence of wrongdoing among the FLDS in Custer County, where I'm assuming there is still religious freedom and the presumption that we are innocent until proved guilty.

"No evidence so far," notes Jobe, who has visited the sect. "But just because we don't see anything criminal when we go in doesn't mean there's nothing criminal going on."

While Jobe admonished me for asking if he is on an FLDS witch hunt, others in the crowd were comfortable with the term.

Says neighbor Jeff Thomas: "If what happened with these folks in other communities happens here, you can bet we're gonna have a witch hunt, and you can bet it's gonna be big."

http://www.denverpost.com/search/ci_9857718
 
Here are the real facts.

The rest of the story as told by reporter Brooke Adams.....

Westcliffe, Colorado

Root-cellar-2-779795.jpg



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Root-cellar-3-787369.jpg





There is so much to say about our trip to Colorado last week, but this little story probably sums up the situation as succintly as anything.

We met with several people in the town who were ''deeply concerned'' that the FLDS have moved into Custer County. Their attention is focused primarily on a home in the Bull Domingo Ranch subdivision, which has been set up by the church as a safe haven for grandmothers.

The grandmothers are supported by a young family and three middle-age women who have their children with them, the youngest of whom is a 15-year-old boy. Their daughters are 17, 18 and 20. A 34-year-old woman who formerly worked in a nursing home is also there to help the elderly ladies.

The FLDS have kept to themselves, so no one in town really knows who lives behind the fence surrounding the property or exactly what is going on there.

Neighbors saw and heard a lot of excavation going on behind the Bull Domingo home while it was being remodeled and could not figure out what the FLDS were up to.

Mattie Burtt, a local Realtor, told me: ''They were digging big huge holes. Who knows what they're burying?''

Here is the answer: A root cellar.

The backyard of the home formerly sloped downhill. The FLDS built up the ground behind the house to create a level backyard and planted it with grass. Under the yard they ''buried'' a shipping container, which is used as a root cellar
 
Seems the British get the point!


Danger to the nation?
Andrew Stephen

Two years ago, the FBI added a religious eccentric to its list of America's top criminals. The hypocritical frenzy unleashed against his community recalls the dark excesses of the 1950s

Back in 1950, J Edgar Hoover began the FBI's legendary practice of issuing a "Ten Most Wanted Fugitives" list. Posters of dangerous criminals such as serial murderers, rapists and drug warlords were distributed to post offices, and television shows such as America's Most Wanted shot to the top of the ratings. Americans loved playing detective, but only 150 of the most wanted have ever been arrested as a result of assistance from the public. By far the biggest name on the current list is Osama Bin Laden, who has a $25m ransom on his head and (the FBI helpfully tells us) "should be considered armed and dangerous".

What, then, was 50-year-old Warren Steed Jeffs doing on the list two years ago? Like Bin Laden, he was also considered "armed and dangerous" and, we were told, "may travel with a number of loyal and armed bodyguards". Such dramatic warnings were worthy of Hoover himself, but in the event, the former private schoolteacher and accountant was led away with the minimum of fuss in 2006 after cops stopped his Cadillac Escalade on Interstate 15, north of Las Vegas, because its number plates were not visible. They found they had landed a supposedly very big fish indeed.

Let us now fast forward two years, however. Last month, Jeffs was flown to hospital by helicopter suffering convulsions because he had repeatedly banged his head against the walls of his prison cell. He had also tried to hang himself, and developed festering sores on his knees after days of praying non-stop in solitary confinement in Utah's Purgatory Correctional Facility.

Yet, almost certainly uniquely in Hoover's 58-year-old Most Wanted programme, Jeffs was never accused of killing or hurting anyone himself, of stealing, drug-running or arms-running, or of personally committing any violent crime. He became one of America's top ten most wanted fugitives for one overriding reason: he sought the freedom to practise his religion the way he wanted, but discovered instead that there was a catastrophic irreconcilability between the traditions of his church and the law.

Before we go any further, I should say that from everything I have learned about Jeffs, he is neither a pleasant man nor a religious martyr. He is an avowed racist, for example. He was leader until last year of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (FLDS), one of the three main sects that broke away from the Mormon church when it publicly disavowed polygamy in 1890. He and the three groups' estimated 37,000 followers believe "plural marriages" are essential prerequisites for entry to the "Celestial Kingdom", heaven's holiest enclave. He succeeded his father, who died in 2002 and had 19 or 20 wives, with whom he sired at least 60 children.

Hypocrisy

Four years ago, the younger Jeffs acquired 1,700 acres of scrubland 170 miles north of San Antonio, Texas, to house 700 of his followers who were fleeing increasing scrutiny from the media, police, and anti-polygamy groups in Utah and Arizona. He named the ranch "Yearning for Zion". As well as a gleaming 80ft white temple, the ranch had log cabins, a medical centre, a cheese factory, a rock quarry and a water-treatment plant. The reference to Zion indicated the sect's profound fundamentalism: they said they were following the Old Testament examples of Abraham and his three wives, Jacob with his four and David with his seven (at least).

Here we come to the rub. Only Jeffs, as "President and Prophet, Seer and Revelator" of the FLDS, could sanction marriage among members. In 2002, he arranged the marriage in Utah of a 14-year-old girl to her 19-year-old cousin - and it was this that landed him on the Most Wanted list. By facilitating a sexual liaison involving an underage girl, he was charged with "accomplice rape" and, for good measure, incest.

Last November he was found guilty on all counts and sentenced to prison for two consecutive terms of five years to life. The state of Arizona then moved in, charging him with eight more sexual offences against minors and incest - again, as "an accomplice". He reportedly had a nervous breakdown in jail before resigning as spiritual leader of the church last November. In decades, when Utah and Arizona have finished with him, Jeffs will face yet more charges in Texas.

The notoriety the FBI had needlessly afforded this rather inconsequential oddball, however, has already had further tragic consequences. Last spring, a disturbed 33-year-old woman, who had no connection with the Mormon church or any of its breakaway branches - and who, like many people who lived in the area, disliked and mistrusted the "weirdos" who lived at the Yearning for Zion ranch - made a series of anonymous phone calls in which she claimed to be a 16-year-old girl inside the ranch who was being physically abused by her 50-year-old husband.

That was enough for Texas's finest, who also resented the polygamists' presence in their midst. In scenes chillingly reminiscent of the fiery massacre exactly 15 years before of the Branch Davidian sect in Waco, Texas - in which 54 adults and 21 children were killed - Texan police duly assembled automatic weapons, Swat teams, snipers, helicopters, and even a tank to launch an assault on the ranch and rescue the non-existent 16-year-old girl. "Law enforcement is preparing for the worst," a spokeswoman grimly told a local newspaper. Last April state troopers finally moved in.

Luckily, FLDS members did not put up a fight in the way the Branch Davidians had done. Police, with the (on this occasion) inaptly named Texas Child Protective Services, were easily able to break into the temple - considered highly sacred to church members, and into which outsiders were not allowed - where the fictitious 16-year-old girl had supposedly sought refuge. Not surprisingly, they did not find her.

Meanwhile, though, hundreds of children on the ranch were being wrenched forcibly from their parents. Busload after busload of mothers and suddenly parentless, crying, traumatised children - 250 girls and 213 boys by the most authoritative count - were driven away under armed escort to Fort Concho, a military facility with inadequate food, lavatories or bathing facilities, and little privacy for people to whom modesty was a basic dignity. Mothers in the group were forbidden even from waving to each other across halls.

Then the entire group of detainees was bussed to a new home, a small sports stadium called the San Angelo Coliseum, where there was an outbreak of chicken pox among the children. Others were subjected to medical tests against their will, including the taking of DNA samples. The authorities announced triumphantly that 31 of 53 girls aged between 14 and 17 were either pregnant or already mothers. In this febrile atmosphere, 400 lawyers descended voluntarily on the court to offer to represent the children. The local newspaper in Eldorado, the tiny town nearest the ranch, put up a sign saying simply, "No interviews. Violators will be shot. Survivors will be prosecuted."

It took six weeks for an appeals court in Texas to halt all this nonsense and bring everybody to their senses. In a blistering rebuke of Judge Barbara Walther, it said that the court which first heard the case "abused its discretion in failing to return the children" because the Texas authorities had failed to produce evidence to justify what they did. They "did not present any evidence of danger to the physical health and safety of any male children or any female children who had not reached puberty". A week later, the Texas Supreme Court ruled that all the children must be returned to the Yearning for Zion ranch.

The tragedy of the whole terrible episode is that the deeply unappealing Jeffs and his philosophies actually mirror the mores of his society far more than all the frothing indignation suggests. In the states of South Carolina, North Carolina and Kansas, for example, it was legal for older males to marry 12-year-old girls as recently as the past decade.

David Henkel, a pro-polygamy campaigner who estimates that there are 100,000 polygamists in the US - Jews, Christians, and many Muslims among them, besides rebel Mor mons - senses profound hypocrisy: "Someone like a Hugh Hefner will have a television show with three live-in girlfriends and that's all OK," he says. "But if that man was to marry them, then suddenly he's a criminal. That's insane."

Part of the indignation has been fostered by politicians such as 68-year-old Senator Harry Reid, current Democratic leader of the senate, and former Massachusetts governor Mitt Romney, the 2008 Republican presidential aspirant and still a strong contender to be John McCain's vice-presidential running mate. Reid, backing calls for the creation of a department of justice task force to combat polygamy, told the senate judiciary committee three weeks ago that polygamist sects are "a form of organised crime". What I did not see reported is that Reid himself is one of America's 5.8 million conventional Mormons who are bitterly opposed to the breakaway groups, as is Romney.

The upshot of this whole terrible mess is that the pitiful Jeffs, wanted man number 482 in Hoover's lists, will now rot in jail. Studies have shown that arranged marriages tend to have much the same success rate as conventional ones - although the 14-year-old girl whose marriage Jeffs originally sanctioned is now married to another man.

Heaven knows what lasting psychological traumas were inflicted on the 463 innocent children who were kidnapped from the ranch, or on their parents. Religious zeal had collided irrevocably with the law; few of us, after all, are anything but vehemently opposed to underage girls being forced into marriage or incest. But was it really necessary to make Warren Steed Jeffs one of America's Ten Most Wanted Fugitives? Or did it just seem like a good attention-seeking gimmick at the time, perhaps? Eerily, somehow, the ghost of J Edgar Hoover and all the harm he inflicted on America lives on in 2008.

http://www.newstatesman.com/north-america/2008/08/children-jeffs
 
Another picture and article on views from Westcliffe Colorado...


Women-walk-702277.jpg


Keep Secret


One man we met in Westcliffe had a simple solution for defusing the community's concern about whomever is living behind the fence of the home in the Bull Domingo Ranch subdivision. ''Don't be so secret,'' he said.

I suggested that to Lee Steed: Why not send a grandmother or two out into the community as emissaries, so to speak. Let people get to know them?

''We're not trying to be on the cover of Country Magazine,'' Steed said, adding the FLDS in Westcliffe just want to live private, quiet lives.

Well, they are not the only ones keeping secrets and striving to stay private.

Trent has had plenty of trouble in the past getting fundamentalist Mormons to be photographed. In Westcliffe, he ran into the opposite problem: reluctant regular folk.

Among them: Maura, who has been at the forefront of the community's concern about the new FLDS presence in Custer County.

Maura would not be photographed or disclose her last name. Russ and Kathy Kerr, who just sold a home adjacent to the FLDS property in Bull Domingo would not be photographed. Neither would Jane Thomas, who owns The Chop Shop, a butcher store in town, with her husband. Or Mattie Burtt, the real estate agent.

Yeah, that was fun for Trent.

Maura said her reluctance to be fully identified was because of past harassment unrelated to the FLDS situation. OK, that is understandable.

More surprising was her reluctance to identify other members of Step Up, the newly launched group that is trying to educate Westcliffe about the FLDS.

I was suprised, too, that Sheriff Fred Jobe did not know who else, other than Muara, was involved in Step Up.

The first person Step Up brought to town was Laurie Allen, who has ties to the LeBaron group and mixes that experience with commentary about the FLDS in her documentary ''Banking on Heaven.'' About 250 people turned out for the screening.

This weekend, Step Up is hosting a public fundraiser for The Diversity Foundation. Shannon Price, executive director of the foundation is coming to town, along with Brent Jeffs. Brent alleged in a lawsuit filed in 2004 that he was sexually molested 20 years or so ago by FLDS sect leader Warren Jeffs and two other uncles. The FLDS never responded in court, so Brent received a default judgment.

I have heard he is at work on a book about his experience. Maura said Brent is a ''hero of mine. He's taken some enormous risks. I was deeply touched he would come.''

So far, the visiting experts that Step Up has brought to town have been among the new neighbors' harshest critics.

Maura has spent a lot of time trying to educate herself about the FLDS. She had read Stephen Singular's book, ''When Men Become Gods.''

''Yep, and we're proud of him. He's Colorado,'' Maura told us at dinner.

She has also read Carolyn Jessop's book, ''Escape.'' She has started Jon Krakauer's ''Under the Banner of Heaven'' as well as Susan Ray Schmidt's book about the LeBarons.

Evil men prosper when good men do nothing, Maura told us, which was part of the motivation for putting together Step Up. Its goal is to do ''our very best to say 'No, no more' and do our best to keep evil leaders from destroying people.''

http://blogs.sltrib.com/plurallife/
 

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