Trial Thread 8 May 2012 Wrapping up Closing Arguments

[Tahorn]

If the innocent duped defendent had told them where to find this stuff when he was arrested (or better yet, when it happened) we'd be looking at a whole different case? Likely not. In fact, there would be much more evidence to prove his involvement IMO.

I don't know what he said to the LE ... They haven't provided the statement MR made to the LE after his arrest. I guess will see all of that once the jury goes into deliberations.

 

[Alison]

I did not get mad at one single post today. Nope no siree, you know why? The crown did awesome and nothing anyone says is going to change how I feel they presented.

 

[Kamille]

Why didn't the Crown provide proof that the speakers were purchased after the murder?

JMO

Because they weren't. It was a lie. He wasn't working on installing anything IMO.

 

[Kamille]

I don't know what he said to the LE ... They haven't provided the statement MR made to the LE after his arrest. I guess will see all of that once the jury goes into deliberations.

I thought his statement was "I didn't do it". Oh and get me a lawyer.

MOO

 

[Alethea Dice]

Well I have no idea what he was pretending to do at that time because in order to install rear speakers in a Honda Civic Sedan you have to remove the entire rear deck, including the upper portion of the back seat.

Did he have a receipt for new speakers? Where did he get them? I think this is another one of MR's lies.

MOO

I don't remember hearing MR say anything about buying new speakers. It was just suggested by the posters here as an excuse for his removal of the back seat after the fact. It was their theory only.

JMO

 

[tmhco]

I don't know what he said to the LE ... They haven't provided the statement MR made to the LE after his arrest. I guess will see all of that once the jury goes into deliberations.

Either did the defence. Pretty sure they would have. He clammed up tight hoping they would never find Tori. JMO

 

[jolady]

I must admit, I don't really "get" the posts absolving MR of the rape, as if that would make it okay (or even "not as bad"). I guess in my worldview, in the hierarchy of "bad things," murder is the ultimate "bad thing." Not to say rape is good, by any means, but I'd rather be raped and not murdered than raped and murdered, you know? Or even "just" murdered.

And while I'm sure Tori's family obviously wouldn't have wanted either thing to happen to her, I think they'd rather have her back with them (even if she had gone through the trauma of a rape), than murdered and left to die alone in a field in the middle of nowhere.

Does that make sense? I don't want to offend anyone or in any way minimize the horror that Tori went through, that her family went through, or what anyone here who may have experienced a rape or have been close to someone who was murdered went through.

ITA, murder is the ultimate "bad thing". The way I am thinking is that the murder is a definite, can't be questioned, Tori is dead. I think as a parent that is obviously the worse thing that could ever happen but if a rape also happened then IMO that is adding insult to injury. It would be even worse, much like if she had been tied up for days and tortured before ultimately being killed. If it were my child and the murder was a given then I could only hope it was quick and my child didn't suffer. I have to admit I have considered the evidence of the rape in what to me is a reasonable manner and have come up with reasonable IMO doubt. There is no physical evidence of rape. IMO sperm fractions can be attributed to having had sex in the car and there is evidence of Tori's blood in several places in the car and one splatter seems to have IMO landed on a sperm fraction. As I am writing this I can just imagine the responses, please refrain, I have read all the posts I understand your position but in my mind this is reasonable. As far as her being without her skirt and tights, I really don't know, again any speculation on my part would just be repeating previous posts from others that have been ridiculed and dismissed but again in my mind it does not mean a rape. If there had been evidence showing a predilection for young girls, maybe *advertiser censored* or communication I would think differently but that is not the case. I think the horror of the murder is enough without the rape and IMO it has not been proven, therefore, I choose to believe it did not happen. JMO

 

[nursebeeme]

carseat:

the defense had their chance to perhaps call witnesses on his behalf that could have corroborated this "speaker" defense. But they didn't.

They either had their chance and blew it or there never was such a chance and thusly it was not even attempted.

The world watched as that video of his car was broadcast right after Tori vanished and he knew he had to get rid of that seat. And he did.

moo

 

[maxfactor]

I'm just trying to get caught up on the thread, on page 18 so I have a ways to go!! Just wanted to say a huge thank you to all those who posted the tweets!!! It looks to me like the Crown has done an amazing job with closing arguments!!

 

[Flowercb]

Or maybe he got upset by that for the same reason that he gets upset about the car wash. Because it's another of TLM's lies.

JMO

He could have taken the stand and told his story then. MOO!

 

[Kamille]

I don't remember hearing MR say anything about buying new speakers. It was just suggested by the posters here as an excuse for his removal of the back seat after the fact. It was their theory only.

JMO

He told the neighbour that. He told the girlfriend that. Both were entered into evidence via their testimony.

MOO

 

[tmhco]

If not for they rape, VS would be alive and well. The rape was the catalyst to this whole nightmare. To suggest that you don't want to believe it
happened is not a reason to throw away logic and reasoning. There may not have been enough fancy DNA or physical evidence for you but the circumstancial evidence is screaming at us. JMO

 

[nettie_82]

If not for they rape, VS would be alive and well. The rape was the catalyst to this whole nightmare. To suggest that you don't want to believe it
happened is not a reason to throw away logic and reasoning. There may not have been enough fancy DNA or physical evidence for you but the circumstancial evidence is screaming at us. JMO

I agree. Sometimes good old common sense has to be used!!! JMO

 

[Flowercb]

I wonder what the ratio of men to women is in our "Jury". lol

 

[robynhood]

I will be home tomorrow and continue on tweeter from many reporters...only problem is some times windows computer will not post new tweets so I must keep refreshing page.on tweeter...that is part of the lag in time if it is not something like jury not in....

Plus websleuther does not like posts when I do it quickly ...this web site thinks I am respeating my post...lol...so please be patient....I am also reading for the most important info as often 5 tweets come in at the same time....JOYS of tweeter ...robynhood...see ya all around 10;00am....oh ya ...reports thinks if the Crown finishes the case early enough......Next the judge will be giving the JURY INSTRUCTIONS TOMORROW for reaching there VERDIct!!!!.....the day we have all waited a very long time for ....omg just the thought of a VERDICT makes me extremely nervous ....Pleasant dreams all.....I cannot believe I did have a Rafferty on my BRAIN last night.... while asleep lat night >>>>..not pleasant...bye robynhood

 

[daisy.faithfull]

I will be home tomorrow and continue on tweeter from many reporters...only problem is some times windows computer will not post new tweets so I must keep refreshing page.on tweeter...that is part of the lag in time if it is not something like jury not in....

Plus websleuther does not like posts when I do it quickly ...this web site thinks I am respeating my post...lol...so please be patient....I am also reading for the most important info as often 5 tweets come in at the same time....JOYS of tweeter ...robynhood...see ya all around 10;00am....oh ya ...reports thinks if the Crown finishes the case early enough......Next the judge will be giving the JURY INSTRUCTIONS TOMORROW for reaching there VERDIct!!!!.....the day we have all waited a very long time for ....omg just the thought of a VERDICT makes me extremely nervous ....Pleasant dreams all.....I cannot believe I did have a Rafferty on my BRAIN last night.... while asleep lat night >>>>..not pleasant...bye robynhood

Goodnight!

 

[Kittymama]

ITA, murder is the ultimate "bad thing". The way I am thinking is that the murder is a definite, can't be questioned, Tori is dead. I think as a parent that is obviously the worse thing that could ever happen but if a rape also happened then IMO that is adding insult to injury. It would be even worse, much like if she had been tied up for days and tortured before ultimately being killed. If it were my child and the murder was a given then I could only hope it was quick and my child didn't suffer. I have to admit I have considered the evidence of the rape in what to me is a reasonable manner and have come up with reasonable IMO doubt. There is no physical evidence of rape. IMO sperm fractions can be attributed to having had sex in the car and there is evidence of Tori's blood in several places in the car and one splatter seems to have IMO landed on a sperm fraction. As I am writing this I can just imagine the responses, please refrain, I have read all the posts I understand your position but in my mind this is reasonable. As far as her being without her skirt and tights, I really don't know, again any speculation on my part would just be repeating previous posts from others that have been ridiculed and dismissed but again in my mind it does not mean a rape. If there had been evidence showing a predilection for young girls, maybe *advertiser censored* or communication I would think differently but that is not the case. I think the horror of the murder is enough without the rape and IMO it has not been proven, therefore, I choose to believe it did not happen. JMO

Thanks for your response. I disagree, of course, but I appreciate you taking the time to explain how you see it.

There is most likely evidence that was successfully suppressed by the defence, so I guess we'll find out more when the jury is sequestered. I say "most likely" because there were a LOT of legal arguments, and I expect they pertained to evidence that the defence didn't want admitted. Not sure what else it could be...any thoughts (anyone)?

 

[matou]

Christie Blatchford: ‘No evidence’ Rafferty a bystander in Tori Stafford murder, prosecutor says

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com...nder-in-tori-stafford-murder-prosecutor-says/

 

[matou]

But the details in her first story were so singularly self-immolating, Mr. Gowdey suggested, that they ring true. He noted how, in her recantation, when she was claiming to be the killer, Ms. McClintic switched to “the passive voice” – saying, for instance, “a garbage bag was placed over the head,” or “she was struck by the hammer,” or “the body was moved.”

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com...nder-in-tori-stafford-murder-prosecutor-says/

 

[daisy.faithfull]

Thanks for your response. I disagree, of course, but I appreciate you taking the time to explain how you see it.

There is most likely evidence that was successfully suppressed by the defence, so I guess we'll find out more when the jury is sequestered. I say "most likely" because there were a LOT of legal arguments, and I expect they pertained to evidence that the defence didn't want admitted. Not sure what else it could be...any thoughts (anyone)?

is it possible that the Crown had many objections to what the defence was going to present? Maybe this contributed to why the defence hardly put up a case for MTR's innocence?