Trial Discussion Thread #1 - 14.03.03-06, Day 1-4

Status
Not open for further replies.
well.. slap me silly and call me Susan.. what I thought I heard I certainly did....

Pretoria - Oscar Pistorius's defence lawyer intends proving to the North Gauteng High Court in Pretoria that the accused screams like a woman when he is anxious.

"I put to you that it does. Decibel tests were done," said Advocate Barry Roux as he cross-examined radiologist Johan Stipp on Thursday.


can I , realistically, make the assumption that we WILL HEAR , in court, under oath, OSCAR SCREAM LIKE A WOMAN ( when anxious??)
 
decibel tests were done!!..

well ... * gobsacked!!...now all that has to be done is the witnesses testifying they heard a womans voice, hear this test, or A LIVE DEMONSTRATION!, to hear Oscar and AGREE that was the pitch they heard and that they , obviously , made a mistake.

Because in this test, the decibels reached have still to match what they heard. . it cant just be any woman , in Roux s opinion, that Oscar sounds like.. it has to match the womans voice the witnesses heard..

oh, this trial!!..
 
We all also need to remember that from OP's BH affidavit, he alleges great fear of an intruder or intruders.

But then instead of holing up in his bedroom with his gun, and calling police and security. he goes into the bathroom (allegedly) and on his stumps, and to confront what may be several people lying in wait with guns or machine guns etc. AND he warns them that he is coming in after them before entering the bathroom! (Again according to his own affidavit.)

As Det. Botha and the Pros have said, it's possible (and I agree) but highly improbable.

Yes thanks for the reminder! He was supposedly more vulnerable to them because he was on his stumps, his reason for shooting first thinking later. Yet as you say he announced he was coming to the "intruder(s)" it makes absolutely no sense.
 
because,..as we all know.. not all women have the same voice.. that would be a terrific suspension of logic, now wouldn't it? It wont be much use if Oscar, when anxious , screams like Yoko Ono at the Art Show.. he has to match exactly the scream that they heard that night..

oh.. the anticipation.
 
With respect, that's a silly thing to say. Obviously it's harder to hit a moving target with accuracy. Three out of four shots hit her, which isn't surprising given the very limited space she had to move around in. She would also have tried to make herself as small a target as possible and protect her head with her arms*, which would explain the elbow wound.

*Not that it would do any good, but it's instinctive.

The bullet pierced her arm as it was protecting her head and magically exited her arm without entering the head it was protecting all while she was dancing around in this cramped toilet room. But I'm the silly one. ;)
 
My point is, if his first plan was to get to her by knocking the door in, that plan was working, and particularly, after the panel is knocked out, the structural integrity is compromised, it only needs another whack and he's in, he's got her.

IMO he wasn't trying to "get her out" he was in a fit of rage. Personally I think he started banging the door with the bat, maybe threatening her maybe telling her to open the door. When that wasn't working he shot in, some say the missing panel was shot through. What if it was the first shot that took the damaged panel out and he could see in at that point for a better shot? IMO once he started shooting there was no going back, he was shooting to kill. Once she was hit she had to die.

I just can not discount multiple witnesses who all heard a woman screaming that night.
 
Well.....I'll eat my hat if Oscar ever gets on the stand and demonstrates his scream.
Say if he did scream that nite, how would he ever re-enact the emotions and adreneline he was experiencing at that point...... one year later. He must have been scared silly after realizing what he'd done.

I don't even think he could succeed on a decibel meter after the fact.
 
IMO he wasn't trying to "get her out" he was in a fit of rage. Personally I think he started banging the door with the bat, maybe threatening her maybe telling her to open the door. When that wasn't working he shot in, some say the missing panel was shot through. What if it was the first shot that took the damaged panel out and he could see in at that point for a better shot? IMO once he started shooting there was no going back, he was shooting to kill. Once she was hit she had to die.

I just can not discount multiple witnesses who all heard a woman screaming that night.

What is he shooting, a bazooka? How is a 9mm bullet going to knock a door panel out?

I wasn't suggesting he wanted to get her out. But if you suggest he was knocking at the door first, you do accept he was trying to get to her, yes? If that's his goal, he was successful, the door was breaking away.
 
Well.....I'll eat my hat if Oscar ever gets on the stand and demonstrates his scream.
Say if he did scream that nite, how would he ever re-enact the emotions and adreneline he was experiencing at that point...... one year later. He must have been scared silly after realizing what he'd done.

I don't even think he could succeed on a decibel meter after the fact.

I'll see your hat and raise you one beret, jilly..with an extra bet of a black velvet chapeau.

well. Roux has had him in a sound and recording studio somewhere, doing 'the scream' and recording the measurement of the decibels and pitch.. AND
Roux said he would prove it..!! imagine that!!.
 
Earlier we were discussing his phone calls after the shooting. According to the BBC, at 3:19 he telephoned a neighbor asking for help with Reeva. At 3:20 he called a hospital. The next phone call was to a friend at 3:55.
 
I'll see your hat and raise you one beret, jilly..with an extra bet of a black velvet chapeau.

well. Roux has had him in a sound and recording studio somewhere, doing 'the scream' and recording the measurement of the decibels and pitch.. AND
Roux said he would prove it..!! imagine that!!.

Are they going to auto-tune it as well? :giggle:
 
I'm right with another contributor on here who said he has to keep checking himself for confirmation bias. Of course you must always give the same weight to evidence that you find troubling or inconvenient as you do to evidence that you find reassuring. Apart from anything else, it can save you from looking like an idiot. There's nothing wrong with being wrong, as long as you have the humility to be alert to that possibility. As John Maynard Keynes said: "When my information changes, I alter my conclusions. What do you do, sir?"

But you really have to work at it! At least I do. I confess that I don't like this defendant. I almost think he could be convicted simply on a reconstruction of the choreography of the incident as he himself describes it - enacted in a scale replica of the balcony/bedroom/bathroom complex - so improbable (and, to me, seemingly impossible) is the purported sequence of events and the interlocking movements of killer and killed. Of course the judicial process cannot treat the matter so superficially, and luckily it doesn't matter what I think.

Donald Rumsfeld was spot-on with his unknown unknowns. I shouldn't speak for others, but there are things that I think I know about this case, and I can devise elaborate scenarios to take account of every possibility that I can think of in the unknown realm. Still, just around the corner could lie a fragment of evidence that causes this edifice that I've constructed to fall apart. "How was I supposed to guess that?!", I might wail. Well I shouldn't have been so confident about the adequacy of my imagination - is the answer to that one.

For all that, OP really put my back up in his bail affidavit! "I fail to understand how I could be charged with murder", he said. Steady on, old son! You have just shot someone dead without provocation, don't forget. It's got to be worth a look, surely; even if ample mitigation can ultimately be proven. His posturing just seemed kind of graceless in the circs; indicative of the air of entitlement he's often accused of possessing. Hiring a company with "Reputation Management" in their name didn't help. He might as well have saved his money and called a press conference to announce that he intended to delude the public as to his true nature.

At the moment, I can't help hoping he gets sent down, although if he does turn out to be (relatively) innocent it would be a travesty if he isn't (relatively) exonerated. Even graceless people deserve justice.

But I think he must be guilty of something. At the time, an expert on SA firearms law said the situation doesn't exist where you are legally entitled to fire upon an unidentified target. Assuming that's accurate, OP's got problems whichever way the pre-med aspect goes - even if it doesn't amount to a 25-stretch.
 
I'll see your hat and raise you one beret, jilly..with an extra bet of a black velvet chapeau. LOL

well. Roux has had him in a sound and recording studio somewhere, doing 'the scream' and recording the measurement of the decibels and pitch.. AND
Roux said he would prove it..!! imagine that!!.

I'll believe it when I see it!:D If so...I wonder how many 'takes' they had to do.

Yeah......lawyers (Geragos) comes to mind...... They make alot of promises which somehow go poof!
 
the neighbor wasn't a neighbor as such as in next door, and known as a neighbor to him with reciprocal BBQs and all that.. .. it was Stander, the head of the private security firm that attends the 'estate'....

but by then Stander was fielding incoming calls from all over the place and trying to make outgoing calls also.. Stipp, Burger, etc.. he already knew something was amiss near the Pretorius house..
 
The simple question now raised,if it was him screaming at the intruder before the shots, WHY didn't she respond? If his story is that he did not know it was reeva, and she was innocently using the toilet, why wouldn't she have responded to his screams?
 
Are they going to auto-tune it as well? :giggle:

I just don't know, Lisa.. its out of my area of expertise!... of course, I expect the sound engineers to get on the stand also, to verify the accuracy, and I expect it to be filmed, so it cant be anyone else's scream being dubbed for Oscars.. I ,frankly, do not know the procedure for replicating and verifying as to its integrity a recording of a man so anxious and panicked that he can lift the pitch to what is claimed.

big mystery, but we have Roux's promise of it. He has made a point of assuring a witness, and the court, by extension that he will produce the proof of the claim.
 
The bullet pierced her arm as it was protecting her head and magically exited her arm without entering the head it was protecting all while she was dancing around in this cramped toilet room. But I'm the silly one. ;)

I don't understand what you are arguing about, so I shall leave you to it.
 
The simple question now raised,if it was him screaming at the intruder before the shots, WHY didn't she respond? If his story is that he did not know it was reeva, and she was innocently using the toilet, why wouldn't she have responded to his screams?

He hasn't claimed he "screamed" before the shots. That was the testimony of MB & CB, which is compelling testimony but also testimony that has some credibility issues.
 
and f course, if it's all bluff from Roux, this points even more exponentially to Oscars guilt and cover up.

That is.. if the proof is NOT produced in the terms outlined ( a decibel test of Oscar screaming ) then it completely annihilates all his cross examination of the neighbors so far on the stand. AND puts a huge lump of undeniable untruth in Oscars corner.. among those so far displayed.. ( the sweet little boxer and his story of the gun in the restaurant, for example)
 
The simple question now raised,if it was him screaming at the intruder before the shots, WHY didn't she respond? If his story is that he did not know it was reeva, and she was innocently using the toilet, why wouldn't she have responded to his screams?


Good question! Also why would reeva lock the toilet door? This couple was intimate with each other so why the lock door??? jmo
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
151
Guests online
2,164
Total visitors
2,315

Forum statistics

Threads
595,331
Messages
18,022,580
Members
229,626
Latest member
MambeuX
Back
Top