Armchair Psych Profile and JH's Background

[February]

If the school knew of any direct threat, and did nothing, they will be liable. And they should be. Otherwise, their hands were tied.

So since Fenton works for the school. and if Fenton knew of the direct threat and did nothing... who will be liable?

The psychiatrist treating the accused Colorado movie theater gunman was so concerned about his behavior that she mentioned it to her colleagues, saying he could potentially be a danger to others,
http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/01/justice/colorado-theater-shooting-psychiatrist/index.html

 

[Padua]

piggy backing off of zv

[video=youtube;4N3N1MlvVc4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4N3N1MlvVc4[/video]

 

[ynotdivein]

Does anyone have any linkable information about the "in loco parentis" doctrine as it applies to college students? (I checked Wiki but would prefer something more substantial.) :tyou:

 

[Curious Me]

Clever, he is, to have perhaps set this up legally to shift attention to the school, and perhaps the doctor he had revengeful feelings towards. It could still be "crazy like a fox". If you want to be known as a genius or tricky joker you'd probably be thinking along these lines.

Traveling through gray areas now, and laws are more black and white.

 

[mister happy]

piggy backing off of zv

What do you mean.. "piggy backing off of zv"?.. who or what is zv?

 

[February]

Does anyone have any linkable information about the "in loco parentis" doctrine as it applies to college students? (I checked Wiki but would prefer something more substantial.) :tyou:

Like UC can tell JH that "we are not your parents" ?


At Guest VS Hansen :
Under New York law, colleges have no legal duty to shield students or their guests from the harmful off-campus activity of other students. They do not act in loco parentis. Similarly, a defendant has no duty to control the conduct of third persons so as to prevent them from harming others, even where as a practical matter defendant can exercise such control. Nor does a defendant assume such a duty by observing, but failing to stop dangerous activity.

http://www.leagle.com/xmlResult.asp...0100.xml&docbase=cslwar3-2007-curr&SizeDisp=7

 

[CARIIS]

The spitting story.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/james-holm...officers-forcing-spit-guard/story?id=16844456

WOW just heard this from this post ...this is HUGE and fits into the issues as it relates to admin and basically telling him he is not going to be in the program HUGE (IMO also has huge implications for doc too)

 

[danzn16]

re:


Is the HIPAA mandatory and binding on family even? Mother being a nurse (as well as mother)

The gag order was arbitrary but nontheless binding on media. Does it specifically name the information that is not to be disclosed? Is it totally comprehensive as in no information to be released by any parties on any subject?

Why we don't know is still my question and it goes somewhat to the earlier discussion of the mother saying you have the right man. What did she know and when and are there legal liability issues for her as well? I fail to see why we don't know whether Holmes was ill or not before this happened other than saving someone's *advertiser censored* from their own potential legal issues.

no HIPAA is not binding on the family even if they work in the healthcare field. It is only binding on health care workers that had JH in their care. You are not supposed to have your child as your patient ethically so this shouldn't be an issue. The parents are probably not disclosing anything because they probably don't want to in any way put their son's trial in any further risk. They also may not know for sure his diagnosis. He may have just been developing the MI and they are just as surprised as we are and only noticed that he was changing recently.

 

[shadowraiths]

So since Fenton works for the school. and if Fenton knew of the direct threat and did nothing... who will be liable?

The psychiatrist treating the accused Colorado movie theater gunman was so concerned about his behavior that she mentioned it to her colleagues, saying he could potentially be a danger to others,
http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/01/justice/colorado-theater-shooting-psychiatrist/index.html

From your link, it also notes:

"Fenton made initial phone calls about engaging the BETA team" in "the first 10 days" of June but it "never came together" because in the period Fenton was having conversations with team members, Holmes began the process of dropping out of school, a source told KMGH.​

And herein lies the issue. Did Fenton continue to treat him after he decided to drop out of the doctorate program?

If she terminated their psychiatric relationship, that process will be important wrt issues of liability. For example, does the issue of psychiatric abandonment ( link ) come into play?

If she continued to see him, then what happened? The article states the BETA team did not follow through on the referral bc he had unenrolled. However, if he raised enough red flags that she referred him to BETA in the first place, am not seeing how his withdrawing would magically make the concern disappear.

If she did drop the ball, so to speak, it seems to me, that the university would be on the hook as well.

 

[Padua]

What do you mean.. "piggy backing off of zv"?.. who or what is zv?

Poster zvzvzvzv posted a music video OT and so did I.

 

[February]

From your link, it also notes:

"Fenton made initial phone calls about engaging the BETA team" in "the first 10 days" of June but it "never came together" because in the period Fenton was having conversations with team members, Holmes began the process of dropping out of school, a source told KMGH.​

And herein lies the issue. Did Fenton continue to treat him after he decided to drop out of the doctorate program?

If she terminated their psychiatric relationship, that process will be important wrt issues of liability. For example, does the issue of psychiatric abandonment ( link ) come into play?

If she continued to see him, then what happened? The article states the BETA team did not follow through on the referral bc he had unenrolled. However, if he raised enough red flags that she referred him to BETA in the first place, am not seeing how his withdrawing would magically make the concern disappear.

If she did drop the ball, so to speak, it seems to me, that the university would be on the hook as well.

Excellent point of view IMO..

 

[Curious Me]

From your link, it also notes:

"Fenton made initial phone calls about engaging the BETA team" in "the first 10 days" of June but it "never came together" because in the period Fenton was having conversations with team members, Holmes began the process of dropping out of school, a source told KMGH.​

And herein lies the issue. Did Fenton continue to treat him after he decided to drop out of the doctorate program?

If she terminated their psychiatric relationship, that process will be important wrt issues of liability. For example, does the issue of psychiatric abandonment ( link ) come into play?

If she continued to see him, then what happened? The article states the BETA team did not follow through on the referral bc he had unenrolled. However, if he raised enough red flags that she referred him to BETA in the first place, am not seeing how his withdrawing would magically make the concern disappear.

If she did drop the ball, so to speak, it seems to me, that the university would be on the hook as well.

Thank You for posting. Dr. Drew mentioned if the doctor referred him to someone else it would matter. I see it more as abandonment of mental health care at a crucial time (BETA notified) where I'd expect his doctor to have some liability. Is she his doctor or a school?

 

[shadowraiths]

Is she his doctor or a school?

She treated him. Which makes her his doctor. Regardless of her relationship with the school.

ETA ~ btw, the doctor patient relationship is different within the criminal justice system. So, for example, if a doctor is hired to do a competency evaluation, their client is the CJS, as opposed to the person they're evaluating.

 

[February]

Here's the Student Health Plan PDF file from the school - might be helpful
Tells you coverage of their student insurance, etc..

http://www.ucdenver.edu/life/services/student-health/Documents/AMC_StdntHlthBroch.pdf

and they can continue this insurance up to 6 months more eventhough they are no longer students... if JH continued this coverage , had psychiatric abandonement then things are going to be more uglier...


CONTINUATION OF COVERAGE
If a Covered Student is no longer an Eligible Person under
the Policy, he or she has the right to exercise the option
to continue coverage for up to 6 months beginning on the
date coverage would otherwise terminate. When the
Covered Student chooses to exercise this right, his or her
written request and the appropriate premium must be
received by the Company within 31 days following the
date coverage under the Policy terminates. In no event
will this option to continue coverage be extended beyond
the number of months initially requested. Continuation of
coverage will be subject to the terms and conditions of
the Policy in effect on the date the Covered Student
becomes eligible under this option.

 

[Curious Me]

Shadowraiths, still reading from the link you posted above. It's fascinating how many different ways we can look at something! Surprised my question of whether she's his doctor or a school does come into play.

 

[Curious Me]

CJS :waitasec: Court Judicial System?

Sorry, my tired eyes missed criminal justice system right there in the paragraph.

 

[songline]

So since Fenton works for the school. and if Fenton knew of the direct threat and did nothing... who will be liable?

The psychiatrist treating the accused Colorado movie theater gunman was so concerned about his behavior that she mentioned it to her colleagues, saying he could potentially be a danger to others,
http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/01/justice/colorado-theater-shooting-psychiatrist/index.html

This article does concern me, and does not sit well with me.
While we are not supposed to point any finger.
I have my 5 eyes open to FENTON my own 2, by glasses, my 3rd eye.
I know how hard it is to know everything in time with a dangerous MI patient.

But from quiet, reserved, loaner one does not spin down to murder in 5 weeks. I am not buying it.
hmmm she knew something big because you don’t spin that far down that fast.
UNLESS the MI patient was exhibiting dangerous signs and was already in a spiral
which would require IMO URGEN attention.
NOT BUYING...She can hospitalize him against his will she sure can. even if he is no longer a student.
IMO she needed to handle it more urgently whether he was a student or not.

url]http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/01/justice/colorado-theater-shooting-psychiatrist/index.html[/url][/
http://abcnews.go.com/US/james-holmes-psychiatrist-schools-threat-assessment-team/story?id=16908862

Sources told KMGH that Fenton contacted several members of a "behavioral evaluation and
threat assessment" team to say Holmes could potentially be a danger to others,
the station reported.
_________________

"Under those circumstances, most well-trained threat assessment teams would have gone into action."
_________________
MO
Maybe she was too busy doing some acupuncture on her *advertiser censored*.
But If I was JH Mom I would sue her for all she is worth...
She is more than likely getting all her holdings transfer to her husband or children while I type.
because I would sue he brains out.MOO MOO MOO

 

[shadowraiths]

Shadowraiths, still reading from the link you posted above. It's fascinating how many different ways we can look at something! Surprised my question of whether she's his doctor or a school does come into play.

It's a fascinating read. The panelist have valid points in either direction. And yes, since she is affiliated with the school, the institutional liability question comes into play.

CJS :waitasec: Court Judicial System?

CJS = Criminal Justice System.

 

[danzn16]

Can they/school/dr. as people just call his family and act like they're calling for him, just to give his family a heads up hint that he hasn't been at school? I know legally sometimes you can't, but I think I'd try to get around that someway to warn people if there was serious concern.

Nope, it's illegal.

 

[February]

Maybe she was too busy doing some acupuncture on her *advertiser censored*.

LMAO :floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh: