CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered at Home, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #23

Has anyone here ever seen the footage from the urban explorer who got into the house just prior to demolition? It is not publicly available to my knowledge, but I am just wondering if any of you all saw it.
rbbm
''What he found inside the home was surprising. Despite a major police investigation in the case, and one by a private detective team working for the Sherman family, the man found furniture and cabinets intact, and photos, papers and files scattered around. Among them, an upcoming dinner engagement scrawled on a note; another, a list of planned showings of the house, which had been for sale. “To me, a lot of it looked like evidence. I was surprised.”

''The Star has interviewed the Urbex man and agreed not to identify him as he is concerned that either the police or the Sherman family will pursue him for trespassing. He says he has no connection to the case or to the Sherman family. He took photos and video (the Star has seen them but he did not give permission for their publication) and nothing else, he says. The man published an account of his visit to the Sherman home on a Reddit post, which he has since deleted.''
 
rbbm
''What he found inside the home was surprising. Despite a major police investigation in the case, and one by a private detective team working for the Sherman family, the man found furniture and cabinets intact, and photos, papers and files scattered around. Among them, an upcoming dinner engagement scrawled on a note; another, a list of planned showings of the house, which had been for sale. “To me, a lot of it looked like evidence. I was surprised.”

''The Star has interviewed the Urbex man and agreed not to identify him as he is concerned that either the police or the Sherman family will pursue him for trespassing. He says he has no connection to the case or to the Sherman family. He took photos and video (the Star has seen them but he did not give permission for their publication) and nothing else, he says. The man published an account of his visit to the Sherman home on a Reddit post, which he has since deleted.''
If it was published to Reddit would it have been caught by the Way back machine?
 
If it was published to Reddit would it have been caught by the Way back machine?

This isn’t helpful, but I saw a cached version which led back to the text of his post but I don’t recall where I have it. It didn’t have the photos or video, or link to his accounts, or identify him, but I think most of have an idea who he may be.

KD said something to the effect of ‘the photos and video are out there if you know where to look’. When I checked his website I found that he doesn’t identify the houses he explores specifically. He’ll say something like ‘abandoned mid-century mansion with greenhouse’.
 
<modsnip: It is known fact, in MSM, that the belts were purchased by Honey at Canadian Tire for $9.99>
Dear moderator, not to be argumentative but MSM has been wrong in this case previously, specifically in declaring it a M/S.

This statement comes from KD's book,
''After his hour workout, Barry got ready for work, putting on for the first time one of two belts purchased by Honey at Canadian Tire ($9.99 each). He kissed Honey goodbye, and left.''

It sounds accurate and precise. Just the sort of personal details authors and readers love. I am curious how KD could be so accurate? He did not mention Barry had a shower after the workout. Are you sure Barry did not have one? How would anyone know it was the first time Barry wore that belt? Why did Barry choose that belt, were all his other belts 'ratty' or did Honey ask him too wear a new one. What relevance are where the belts were purchased and for how much, really pertinent?

I will grant you that Honey had purchased belts at Canadian Tire previously. However there is no way of positively identifying the belts used in the staging as the ones purchased by Honey.

Having bought belts at Canadian Tire myself, from the circular display racks, aimed at impulse purchases, they have no identifying marks.

Now if you want to make some point about the Sherman's being frugal and careful with their money, remember many wealthy people shop at Canadian Tire.

BTW the nearest Canadian Tire store, was 2.7km from 50 Old Colony. Maybe it was convenience, not price that was a deciding factor?

The point I am trying to make is, that where and by whom the belts were acquired, in my opinion is irrelevant. If the belts used were from Giant Tiger, or Harry Rosen, would it make any difference to solving the case?
 
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Dear moderator, not to be argumentative but MSM has been wrong in this case previously, specifically in declaring it a M/S.

I will grant you that Honey had purchased belts at Canadian Tire previously. However there is no way of positively identifying the belts used in the staging as the ones purchased by Honey.

Having bought belts at Canadian Tire myself, from the circular display racks, aimed at impulse purchases, they have no identifying marks.

Now if you want to make some point about the Sherman's being frugal and careful with their money, remember many wealthy people shop at Canadian Tire.

BTW the nearest Canadian Tire store, was 2.7km from 50 Old Colony. Maybe it was convenience, not price that was a deciding factor?

The point I am trying to make, is that where and by whom the belts were acquired, in my opinion is irrelevant. If the belts used were from Giant Tiger, or Harry Rosen, would it make any difference to solving the case?

Just to add to this, it's common in the US to see wealthy people at WalMart. Rich people excel at time management, and there's a WalMart close to almost every population center.

Specific to this case, don't forget Barry made a lot of enemies while accumulating his wealth.
 
Maybe, the cheap belts were - also - object of a harsh argument as an example, how careful HS/BS would use their money and the unknown person involved would not, rather would splurge on her/his money.
As long as the double murder isn't solved, I wouldn't exclude the relevance of the same two ominous cheap belts from Canadian Tire*. Like the position of the victims after death (a copy of the sitting trash characters), the belts may have had a certain meaning. IMO
We will see, when the killer will be caught finally, if it was by chance re the sitting position and the belts and if certain possible statements weren't intentional. I am curious.
* changed from "WalMart" to "Canadian Tire"
 
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Dear moderator, not to be argumentative but MSM has been wrong in this case previously, specifically in declaring it a M/S.

This statement comes from KD's book,
''After his hour workout, Barry got ready for work, putting on for the first time one of two belts purchased by Honey at Canadian Tire ($9.99 each). He kissed Honey goodbye, and left.''

It sounds accurate and precise. Just the sort of personal details authors and readers love. I am curious how KD could be so accurate? He did not mention Barry had a shower after the workout. Are you sure Barry did not have one? How would anyone know it was the first time Barry wore that belt? Why did Barry choose that belt, were all his other belts 'ratty' or did Honey ask him too wear a new one. What relevance are where the belts were purchased and for how much, really pertinent?

I will grant you that Honey had purchased belts at Canadian Tire previously. However there is no way of positively identifying the belts used in the staging as the ones purchased by Honey.

Having bought belts at Canadian Tire myself, from the circular display racks, aimed at impulse purchases, they have no identifying marks.

Now if you want to make some point about the Sherman's being frugal and careful with their money, remember many wealthy people shop at Canadian Tire.

BTW the nearest Canadian Tire store, was 2.7km from 50 Old Colony. Maybe it was convenience, not price that was a deciding factor?

The point I am trying to make is, that where and by whom the belts were acquired, in my opinion is irrelevant. If the belts used were from Giant Tiger, or Harry Rosen, would it make any difference to solving the case?

I’m not a mod, but I can explain the context and why some feel it’s important.

From page 263 of KD’s book:

562001D3-C9F8-4F61-AC6F-B12E1452F194.png


9387A9B8-688D-483B-B0F5-CCF5A4BB7CC8.png
Barry was found without a belt around his waist. KD saw the crime scene photos. The Shermans had two almost identical belts around their necks. I’m guessing that the police were able to determine that both belts were purchased by Honey, not brought to the scene by the killer.

Denise Gold was probably the only witness that could tell them the information in the screenshots above. Barry wore one that morning, and left the other on the bench that day. At minimum it shows the killer may have removed Barry’s belt and went upstairs to retrieve the other one. Then staged the bodies using both belts.

Maybe it has more meaning than the killer just choosing possibly the first belt he saw upstairs. My gut tells me the killer was detail-oriented. Maybe him or her choosing the belts (knowing something about them?) links them to the crime. Just my 2 cents.

It really has nothing to do with Canadian Tire, but I imagine Barry would have liked a modest item over an expensive one. The Canadian Tire detail stood out to Gold and helped correctly identify the belts. It adds to her being viewed as a competent, observant witness, imo.

The rest of what she recalled was more important: Barry and Honey didn’t use tension bands that morning and she didn’t notice any marks on their wrists (both were later found with marks on their wrists as though they had been restrained).

She said both were upbeat, chatty and happy starting their day. (No signs of looming conflicts.)
 
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If it was published to Reddit would it have been caught by the Way back machine?

KD has used this in his podcast, which I can link to if the mods ask me to. Here’s a copy of the original post, shared by a member here:

"Throwaway account for obvious reasons. I was inside the mansion shortly before its demolition. I'm a photographer of abandoned/vacant places and I suppose my morbid curiosity got the better of me. It took almost a year of waiting, but eventually the conditions became right for me to sneak inside. The power to the house had been cut, construction hoarding went up and the high-tech security cameras that TPS had installed earlier around the property had all been taken down.

I went alone during the day. I wasn't expecting to get inside, but I was happy to find the garage door leading to the basement was unlocked. I rolled it up and went inside. Not wasting any time, I rushed through the dark garage area. I knew the pool was somewhere in the basement, but I wasn't quite ready to experience that just yet. I made my way up a spiral staircase leading to the ground floor instead.

I had already seen the real estate photos before so I had some idea of what to expect inside. Marble floors, nice light, a distinct 80s vibe. I assumed the place would be more or less empty. I figured a lot of stuff would have been taken out by TPS, sent to an auction house or saved by family members, but that wasn't really the case. There was stuff everywhere: furniture, clothes, artwork, books, personal letters, memos, photos of the deceased, the works. Pretty much every room I stepped into had me saying jesus christ out loud to myself, wondering wth I was getting myself into.

That's not to say everything was intact. It was clear that someone else had been through the place looking for items of value or hidden stashes of money. Everything in the master bedroom was overturned with massive holes punched through the walls. The contents of drawers were strewn out on the floor. The main bathroom upstairs had also been ransacked. Piles of cosmetics and clothing strewn all over the floor. The sight of a messy wig is one of those things that I can't unsee.

In an adjacent area, I came across a notepad on a desk in which someone had written out events occurring the during the days leading up to the murders. "(house) showing at 3:30pm" , "dinner at Barberians", etc. It seemed strange that such a thing would still be there and not a room at TPS headquarters along with other items of evidence.

Most of the stuff in the house, including electronics, was from the 80s or 90s and the majority of it was pretty cheap-looking, some of it quite tacky. I didn't come across the sculptures in the basement. In fact, I don't even recall seeing that room, but granted it was pretty dark down there. Some light came in through the garage doors, but that was about it. I did a quick run through the pool where the bodies were found. Needless to say, it isn't something I'd ever want to do again. Such terrible energy. The fact that was in now in complete darkness only made the whole scene that much more sinister. I left shortly after and still get creeped out whenever I think about it.

I only took a handful of photos that day, mostly of the rooms that had been ripped apart, and a few of the areas that don't look much different than the ones depicted in the real estate listings. I'm not sure I'd ever share them online. I'm still a bit rattled by the experience of it all. I'm also still wrestling with my conscience a little because I feel like I crossed a line into something that's far darker than what I'm usually interested in, both as a photographer and as a human being.

TL;DR: I snuck into a murder mansion and saw a bunch of dead people's stuff. "

He used a throwaway account, but then people figured out who he was. If it’s the person most people think it is, he not only has an account on the site but his own ‘sub-r’. He wants his work to be seen.

Apparently the photos and video were easily available online for many months.

If you follow the breadcrumbs you’ll find that post and at least one or two others with people discussing the images he shared. Maybe they’re still live somewhere? He had his original post up for months.

ETA: See how he found the note ‘house showing at 3:30’? Honey’s assistant said Honey would write notes about scheduled appointments and then throw them out once they were over.

We haven’t heard of a house showing scheduled for 3:30 on that Wednesday, have we?
 
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KD has used this in his podcast, which I can link to if the mods ask me to. Here’s a copy of the original post, shared by a member here:



He used a throwaway account, but then people figured out who he was. If it’s the person most people think it is, he not only has an account on the site but his own ‘sub-r’. He wants his work to be seen.

Apparently the photos and video were easily available online for many months.

If you follow the breadcrumbs you’ll find that post and at least one or two others with people discussing the images he shared. Maybe they’re still live somewhere? He had his original post up for months.

ETA: See how he found the note ‘house showing at 3:30’? Honey’s assistant said Honey would write notes about scheduled appointments and then throw them out once they were over.

We haven’t heard of a house showing scheduled for 3:30 on that Wednesday, have we?
Unless mistaken, seem to recall something about a house inspector/inspection from 10-10:30 AM until 3 PM on Wed. Dec. 13, 2017.
 
Unless mistaken, seem to recall something about a house inspector/inspection from 10-10:30 AM until 3 PM on Wed. Dec. 13, 2017.

I’ve never heard that from KD or another official source, do you have a link?

They had workers at the home that day, but no mention of an inspector, based on witness statements. The agent had a pre-sale inspection done well before the 13th. No offers on the home had been accepted so no possibility that it could be a buyer inspection in the works.
 
fwiw
''Also discovered during the real estate tour was a thick sheaf of papers — the home inspection report for 50 Old Colony Rd. — and Barry’s leather gloves. Those items were found immediately inside the door that led from the basement garage. Insiders have told the Star that Barry had the paper copy of the inspection report at his office, and had said he would bring it home. The inspection report was found on the tiled floor of the hallway, with Barry’s gloves on top of it.''

rbbm
“I’ve got a home inspection report at the office,” Barry told Stern when he and Honey met the realtor at their home on Tuesday evening. “I’ll bring it home tomorrow.” Barry’s thinking: Maybe there was something in that report on 50 Old Colony that would help them get the higher price.''
 
I think the killer or killers deliberately used those belts, likely taking one off of Barry, after he got the one upstairs, probably while he waited for them to come home. It was planned ahead to make it look like Barry murdered Honey, then hung himself. If it were a murder suicide then there would be no homicide investigation, and the estate would be settled quickly. As well, no one would be coming after those who carried out these murders. In other words, a sort of perfect crime, but that did not work. IMO
Agreed. And it's important to remember--contrary to the premise of a question in the Q & A quoted above--that the belts were part of the staging and not the actual murder weapons. The autopsy revealed that they were strangled with a thinner ligature and had their wrists bound, the latter likely with zip ties. IMO the murderer brought the items needed for the actual murder with him.

In contrast, IMO the murderer relied on what he could find at the house to stage the scene. The initial LE belief that the crimes were murder-suicide bought the killer (and the person who hired him, if applicable) several days in which LE failed to take crucial investigative actions. If the items used to stage the scene came too obviously from outside the house, that cushion of time would have been reduced.
 
Agreed. And it's important to remember--contrary to the premise of a question in the Q & A quoted above--that the belts were part of the staging and not the actual murder weapons. The autopsy revealed that they were strangled with a thinner ligature and had their wrists bound, the latter likely with zip ties. IMO the murderer brought the items needed for the actual murder with him.

In contrast, IMO the murderer relied on what he could find at the house to stage the scene. The initial LE belief that the crimes were murder-suicide bought the killer (and the person who hired him, if applicable) several days in which LE failed to take crucial investigative actions. If the items used to stage the scene came too obviously from outside the house, that cushion of time would have been reduced.
I agree. Also, the murder(s) made sure there was no sign of forced entry, and nothing disturbed in the house making it look like an intruder had been there. They seem to have forgotten about Honey's phone on the powder room floor, and Barry's papers and gloves on the floor, close to where he entered. To me, this is an obvious sign that they were attacked and had their wrists zip tied very quickly after they entered the house. Perhaps they were forced to walk to the pool area, where they were killed, or perhaps they were killed on the spot with something like a silk scarf under another zip tie, or thin cord, like a boot lace, to hide the fact that the belts were not the cause of strangulation. Were there subtle drag marks on the floors that the police missed because of their early belief that it was a murder suicide? What about floor dust on the back of their clothes, indicating dragging? I think many subtle signs were missed, but Honey's phone, and the papers as well as Barry's gloves, even though the real estate agent had moved them were huge red flags that this was a double homicide. As it was, the staging was quite successful in giving the murder(s) lots if time to escape, and also it led to the crime scene being terribly compromised by police and others walking all over it, and touching things. They should have sealed off the house, and brought in a forensic team to investigate carefully right away, or at least kept it sealed until after the autopsy reports. That would seem to me to be basic police work. IMO
 
also it led to the crime scene being terribly compromised by police and others walking all over it, and touching things. They should have sealed off the house, and brought in a forensic team to investigate carefully right away, or at least kept it sealed until after the autopsy reports. That would seem to me to be basic police work. IMO
Do we know this? It isn’t clear to me that the police didn’t treat the scene as a homicide. Even if a m/s it’s still a homicide. We know they were looking in the drains, etc - possibly for zip ties, right?
 
Do we know this? It isn’t clear to me that the police didn’t treat the scene as a homicide. Even if a m/s it’s still a homicide. We know they were looking in the drains, etc - possibly for zip ties, right?
2017
1705065564525.png

1705065490876.png
''Investigators could be seen working with city employees Saturday to open up sewer grates near the house.

They used a hydro-excavator as "a large vacuum" and a magnet to locate any "suspicious metals," a source said. They then took the gathered contents to a work yard and combed through the material, looking for anything that could be considered as evidence. ''
 
2017
View attachment 474066

View attachment 474065
''Investigators could be seen working with city employees Saturday to open up sewer grates near the house.

They used a hydro-excavator as "a large vacuum" and a magnet to locate any "suspicious metals," a source said. They then took the gathered contents to a work yard and combed through the material, looking for anything that could be considered as evidence. ''
This was a week later so they knew the family had hired their own team.

Just thinking about all this again, I can't see how one person would have done it. What if Barry and Honey had arrived at the same time? Maybe if a gun was involved they could have tied one up and threatened the other but otherwise, I just can't see it.
 
2017
View attachment 474066

View attachment 474065
''Investigators could be seen working with city employees Saturday to open up sewer grates near the house.

They used a hydro-excavator as "a large vacuum" and a magnet to locate any "suspicious metals," a source said. They then took the gathered contents to a work yard and combed through the material, looking for anything that could be considered as evidence. ''

1705068095314.png
Photo from the Sun.

I know the police said these searches were done out of an abundance of caution, but I always thought they were specifically looking for something small and metal like a phone they knew was missing.
 
Just thinking about all this again, I can't see how one person would have done it. What if Barry and Honey had arrived at the same time? Maybe if a gun was involved they could have tied one up and threatened the other but otherwise, I just can't see it.
I agree with you. It’s just too risky for one person to overcome one or possibly two people. They needed to monitor the house too to be sure no real estate showing, etc., for example.

Also, it can’t be easy to put zip ties on a person’s wrists without 2 people- a gun pointed or something - as you’d have to hold the wrists close together and fasten the zip tie. And they weren’t conked on the head, which aside from a gun would seem to be the easiest way for one person to incapacitate someone.

Especially if non-professionals - I don’t see how one person could do it the way it was done.
 
This was a week later so they knew the family had hired their own team.

Just thinking about all this again, I can't see how one person would have done it. What if Barry and Honey had arrived at the same time? Maybe if a gun was involved they could have tied one up and threatened the other but otherwise, I just can't see it.
Yes, and if there were no signs of dragging the bodies to the staging site, then it would have taken 2 people to carry them. It was mentioned that Barry's legs were crossed. Apparently, if you are going to carry a body, or person, it is easier with the legs crossed, just saying. It may have been done, like the glasses positioned neatly on his face to give the impression that he was at peace when he died of suicide, but I suspect there would have been some involuntary movements towards the end of a strangulation. There are some things, like this, as well as leaving Honey's dropped phone, and Barry's dropped gloves and papers that suggest these were not professional hit men. It is more like they were in a bit of a panic, adrenalin pumping, after two murders, wanting to get the staging right by the pool, and get out of there without being seen, or leaving any signs of forced entry. The old question comes to mind. Who benefited most from the deaths of both Barry and Honey Sherman? Was there any touch dna on the clothing of Honey and Barry? Always follow the money. IMO
 

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