CBS - 48 Hours - Buried Truth episode 12 November 2016 - 9pm central

[LayzeeDayzee]

<modsnip> Even a qualified Psychiatrist would never make such assertions about anything they have only read about versus having performed an indepth in-person assessment.

<modsnip>

By the way, a diagnosis of mental illness is made by more than just noting "symptoms." It most often involves multiple and lengthy interview/evaluation sessions between the client and a qualified diagnostician (Psychiatrist). None of us here are qualified to infer, imply or state with any verified certainty that TK or his mother have any mental illness.

In my opinion, <modsnip>. No one in this world is born "evil", it's much more complex than that, and the only way people with the traits to become serial killers are helped is through early intervention and understanding. Mental illness is an illness just like chicken pox or heart disease. It's an illness of the brain and diagnosis are made by looking at the symptoms that are exhibited by that illness. TK presents symptoms of being a sociapath and his mother presents symptoms of a personality disorder as well. It would take a doctor to officially diagnose them, of course, but anyone who is very familiar with the symptoms of certain mental illnesses can spot them in these two. Mental illness covered a very broad range just like illnesses of every organ of the human body and these two indivuals present symptoms of one type of mental illness. <modsnip>

"These common traits of serial killers have been linked to certain antisocial personality disorders, including sociopathy. In addition, sociopaths tend to be nervous and easily agitated or angered. They are volatile and prone to emotional outbursts, including fits of rage."

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wicked-deeds/201409/the-sociopath-serial-killer-connection

 

[soanyway]

I just rewatched her channel 7 interviews. She does say that when the sheriff came she told an investigator that was with him to check into the bikeshop (she doesn't follow-up with the word "murders"), just bikeshop. The sheriff said TK said he would confess to the SB murders after talking to his mother because he wanted to be the one to tell her. So IMO, RT brought it up, the investigators asked him about it (possibly confirming he was on the list of SB customers and a few other details) and then TK confessed to RT in their 30 minute meeting and he confessed to LE. TK did not offer up this info voluntarily and RT stated that TK did not tell her about the other 2 bodies on the property they found days later. However, RT now says on the 48 hours special that TK has assured her there are no more victims. It sounds as though she has been able to see TK some since his arrest, maybe LE thinks he'll continue talking. JMO But I agree and believe she knew he was involved when the SB murders occurred. Your son has been out of prison 2 years, convicted of a crime involving a firearm, you know his psychological past and he's jittery, wondering whether they'll find the guy, and you don't think to ask him about it? RT said she knew he'd been at Superbike and they'd embarrassed him. Maybe she was scared to pursue it with TK, afraid of what he might say.

That really threw me. Didn't it seem like she told two different stories? One version, it just came to her and she told police to check into it. The other, it came to her to ask TK and he confessed. If he confessed to her, it didn't just come to her to suggest it to police...and if she told LE to examine it before she talked to TK & he confessed, what's the point of telling the story about suggesting it to LE?

MOO - she knew or suspected all along, and tells the story of suggesting it to LE to paint herself as cooperative, helpful, concerned...much as folks have suggested she's doing with her stories.

 

[tlcya]

:stop:

Nobody is posting as a verified mental health expert or presenting themselves as one. Nobody is "diagnosing" TK or his mother in the clinical sense. People are expressing their opinions.

Everyone will have their own about TK and about the many statements made by TK's mother and what they mean.

If you see a post that you feel is outside TOS then alert on it. Do NOT take one another to task or tell one another how or what to post.

 

[Kadoober]

I haven't heard that?

I've heard two different versions from his mother now too:
1: That it was because they laughed at him not being able to ride the bike.
2: That it was because he had bought a bike from them but it got stolen and that when he went back to buy another , they were making fun of him saying "Oh are you gonna get this one stolen too" OWTTE

Bear with me on this, k?
I was fascinated by the variety of stories, so I started 'collecting' them, and I think they are all true.

According to Melissa Brackman and Terry Guy, they were told, presumably by LE, that he had purchased a bike about a year prior to the murders, and it was stolen. He returned to buy another, and had some fun poked his way for it.

'I was told he was a disgruntled customer. He bought a motorcycle from Scott previously. His motorcycle was stolen, he went to get another one,' Melissa Brackman said.'My husband and the service manager were poking fun at him saying, "Hey, is the second motorcycle going to get stolen, too? Didn’t you have enough already?" They were kidding … and he said that made him angry.'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ial-killer-says-victims-set-bullying-son.html

According to Mom:

“They sent him down a big field with plants this high and he fell off and they laughed and laughed at him.” She says her son wanted help learning to ride. When he didn’t get the help, he didn’t want the bike, he wanted his money back.“They told him they’d take it back, but they wouldn’t give him his money back and they were laughing at him,”
http://wspa.com/2016/11/11/raw-interview-with-todd-kohlhepps-mom-why-he-kept-kala-alive/

Tk buys a bike, it gets stolen. He goes to buy a new bike, buys it, and then tries it out in the field, because motorcycle dealerships typically do not allow test drives for insurance purposes. He falls in the field. He gets some good natured ribbing for it. Embarrassed, he says he doesn't want the bike, and since it's sold already he is told he won't get a refund.

The families of the victims are getting their info (I am guessing) from what TK told LE. The mom is getting her info from her son.
Both stories can be just a piece of the whole.

 

[ColourPurple]

Bear with me on this, k?
I was fascinated by the variety of stories, so I started 'collecting' them, and I think they are all true.

According to Melissa Brackman and Terry Guy, they were told, presumably by LE, that he had purchased a bike about a year prior to the murders, and it was stolen. He returned to buy another, and had some fun poked his way for it.

'I was told he was a disgruntled customer. He bought a motorcycle from Scott previously. His motorcycle was stolen, he went to get another one,' Melissa Brackman said.'My husband and the service manager were poking fun at him saying, "Hey, is the second motorcycle going to get stolen, too? Didn’t you have enough already?" They were kidding … and he said that made him angry.'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ial-killer-says-victims-set-bullying-son.html

According to Mom:

“They sent him down a big field with plants this high and he fell off and they laughed and laughed at him.” She says her son wanted help learning to ride. When he didn’t get the help, he didn’t want the bike, he wanted his money back.“They told him they’d take it back, but they wouldn’t give him his money back and they were laughing at him,”
http://wspa.com/2016/11/11/raw-interview-with-todd-kohlhepps-mom-why-he-kept-kala-alive/

Tk buys a bike, it gets stolen. He goes to buy a new bike, buys it, and then tries it out in the field, because motorcycle dealerships typically do not allow test drives for insurance purposes. He falls in the field. He gets some good natured ribbing for it. Embarrassed, he says he doesn't want the bike, and since it's sold already he is told he won't get a refund.

The families of the victims are getting their info (I am guessing) from what TK told LE. The mom is getting her info from her son.
Both stories can be just a piece of the whole.

Hmmn.Maybe it's been a long time since TK gave his mother that explanation and he's forgotten exactly what he the told her. Or maybe TK and his mother agreed that they'd say he murdered them because they bullied him and laughed at him but hadn't gone into the finer details and are both adding their own little bits to the story now.

 

[Gardener1850]

Bear with me on this, k?
I was fascinated by the variety of stories, so I started 'collecting' them, and I think they are all true.

According to Melissa Brackman and Terry Guy, they were told, presumably by LE, that he had purchased a bike about a year prior to the murders, and it was stolen. He returned to buy another, and had some fun poked his way for it.

'I was told he was a disgruntled customer. He bought a motorcycle from Scott previously. His motorcycle was stolen, he went to get another one,' Melissa Brackman said.'My husband and the service manager were poking fun at him saying, "Hey, is the second motorcycle going to get stolen, too? Didn&#8217;t you have enough already?" They were kidding &#8230; and he said that made him angry.'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ial-killer-says-victims-set-bullying-son.html

According to Mom:

&#8220;They sent him down a big field with plants this high and he fell off and they laughed and laughed at him.&#8221; She says her son wanted help learning to ride. When he didn&#8217;t get the help, he didn&#8217;t want the bike, he wanted his money back.&#8220;They told him they&#8217;d take it back, but they wouldn&#8217;t give him his money back and they were laughing at him,&#8221;
http://wspa.com/2016/11/11/raw-interview-with-todd-kohlhepps-mom-why-he-kept-kala-alive/

Tk buys a bike, it gets stolen. He goes to buy a new bike, buys it, and then tries it out in the field, because motorcycle dealerships typically do not allow test drives for insurance purposes. He falls in the field. He gets some good natured ribbing for it. Embarrassed, he says he doesn't want the bike, and since it's sold already he is told he won't get a refund.

The families of the victims are getting their info (I am guessing) from what TK told LE. The mom is getting her info from her son.
Both stories can be just a piece of the whole.

This is a really smart way of thinking about it Kadoober. I had similar thoughts that maybe all the stories were true but in reverse order of what you have and perhaps a few added parts. My thought was that the order of events went something like this:

1. TK buys a motorcycle, test drives in in the field and falls. The SB employees all laugh in fun.
2. TK leaves with the motorcycle he bought, even though he doesn't know how to ride it
3. TK's mom sees him scraped up from falling in the field and TK tells her about them laughing and says he tried to return the bike but they wouldn't give him his money back (In my scenario this part is a lie, I'll explain why below).
4. The bike gets stolen, TK goes to buy another bike and they joke about, "is this one going to get stolen too?"
5. TK leaves upset that the SB employees laughed at him again, comes back 2 weeks later and shoots them all.
6. TK's mom remembers that the Superbike shop would not allow TK to return a bike and she suspects he shot them for it (Whether she suspects this in 2003 right after it happens or thinks of it in 2016 is up for interpretation)

The reason I think he lied to his mother about trying to return the bike is one word: Ego. Someone with an ego like TK would not have been able to admit to himself and the Superbike employees that he didn't know how to ride and should return the bike. I don't believe he actually tried to return it. That would mean he realized he made a bad purchase decision right away. I think he left with a few bruises or scrapes from falling. I think his mother noticed the scrapes and asked him and when he said he fell off she told him he should return the bike. I think he lied and said they wouldn't take it back. This would fit with his "blame everyone else" mentality in order to get his way. Another reason I think this is that, although they may NOT have been able to take the bike back, a small business like that would offer something else to try to make the customer happy. They were a successful owner-run business and you don't get that way in a small town without being very understanding of your customers. Perhaps the victims' families remember that TK was buying another bike because his bike was stolen. Perhaps it was even noted somewhere that he was a repeat customer who had been in the shop recently and that is why he was put on the highlighted list.

All this is just my opinion of course. I agree that both stories could be parts of whole story or multiple interactions that led to TK's anger-induced shooting.

 

[tlcya]

3rd alternate

TK buys bike and tries to ride it and wrecks it. Dumps bike. Goes back to store with BS story about how it got stolen. Buys new one, takes test ride, can't ride it and employees rib him about is this one gonna get "stolen" too. TK leaves with bike, POd to return later and kill everyone.

 

[Kadoober]

Very well thought out Gardener!
My only issue with it, respectfully, is that because of his EGO, I just cannot see him laughing WITH them when he fell, and I can't see him going back to give more of his hard earned cash to a place where they laughed at him previously.

To take the ego thing one step further...

He buys the first bike. Maybe he does ok with it. He either loses control and trashes it, or it does legitimately get stolen (I would love to know if there was a report made on a stolen bike by him). When he goes back to get a new one, because of his ego, he gets a bigger bike. And he definitely can't handle that one, hence the wipeout in the field.

But really, who knows?

Side note: I love how his mom said 'they sent him down a field with plants this high'. As if he was forced to do this, and as if he has a personality that would just go 'oh, okay, I'll ride my new bike through a tall field 'cause these guys said to."

And like they wouldn't let him ride his new bike around the parking lot or something. Mama please.

 

[Gardener1850]

3rd alternate

TK buys bike and tries to ride it and wrecks it. Dumps bike. Goes back to store with BS story about how it got stolen. Buys new one, takes test ride, can't ride it and employees rib him about is this one gonna get "stolen" too. TK leaves with bike, POd to return later and kill everyone.

That works too! I have doubts about his bike really getting "stolen".

 

[Kadoober]

Heh... it seems we all do!

 

[Gardener1850]

Very well thought out Gardener!
My only issue with it, respectfully, is that because of his EGO, I just cannot see him laughing WITH them when he fell, and I can't see him going back to give more of his hard earned cash to a place where they laughed at him previously.

To take the ego thing one step further...

He buys the first bike. Maybe he does ok with it. He either loses control and trashes it, or it does legitimately get stolen (I would love to know if there was a report made on a stolen bike by him). When he goes back to get a new one, because of his ego, he gets a bigger bike. And he definitely can't handle that one, hence the wipeout in the field.

But really, who knows?

Side note: I love how his mom said 'they sent him down a field with plants this high'. As if he was forced to do this, and as if he has a personality that would just go 'oh, okay, I'll ride my new bike through a tall field 'cause these guys said to."

And like they wouldn't let him ride his new bike around the parking lot or something. Mama please.

Oh, no I don't think TK laughed WITH them when he fell either. I think he left with a bruised ego. Possibly he didn't kill them then because he didn't have a gun with him and they were outside where others would see if he did something. Plus, he had just bought the bike and would be on paperwork as being the last customer in the shop. I don't think he is that stupid. I think he left angry and let it fester and his mom's criticizing his purchase decision just added fuel to the fire for his next encounter.

 

[Gardener1850]

Possibly the bike getting stolen story was just a ruse for him to go back in and take them by surprise. I DO think it was premeditated and he waited until the other customer left. He could have just told his mother they laughed at him and that's why he did it and she remembered the field story, then he elaborated about his bike getting stolen to LE. IDK, there are multiple possibilities.

 

[PositiveLight]

I feel like we didn't get too much new info from this show but the few new things we DID learn are potentially HUGE.

Particularly, that LE told Melissa that TK said he shot someone in AZ. And Melissa is FROM AZ, and went back to AZ to live. I wonder if they told her that because the person he shot could be someone she knows? I wonder what else they asked her or told her that was not aired on the show?

Catching up on the threads and wanted to throw something out there when I read your post.
I am curious (and it is probably mentioned further in this thread so forgive me if it has been discussed.) did Melissa ever have ANY contact with TK? Even being in the building when he was there, for him to see her and maybe fixate on her?
Again it could be him trying to get rid of his perceived nemesis, her husband, so he could get the girl?
This guy was not firing on all cylinders obviously and Melissa was very pretty. Maybe he fixated on her?
Maybe they mentioned him possibly shooting someone in Arizona to see if she knew of any close guy friends or friends or acquaintances that if he was stalking her, he could have thought they were his new target.
This is an interesting tidbit for sure. Maybe after stalking her he realized she was pregnant and backed off?
Finding someone else to target. JMOO and curiosity.

 

[PositiveLight]

Yes, she had bed head in this interview and in the one with the local CBS reporter, too.

Could be she's on a heavy anti-depressant or anti-anxiety med. Sometimes those can flatten emotions. She needs to stop giving interviews to the news media. She's not helping herself. Perhaps she is hoping to use the interviews to keep him from getting the DP.

I'm so glad I'm not the only one that noticed!
That bugged the mess out of me! LOL
I forget which interview it was in or possibly a commercial regarding it, but she did something that seemed very weird to me.
That they added it to the part was strange too and possibly they were trying to show her true self.
The reporter asks her a question and ...not sure if they were filming in her home or not, I think it was the female reporter IIRC, as if someone moved to an area behind her that she didn't approve of, she turns around and looks at them (off camera). For some reason when I first saw it, I kept replaying it to study it. Something just set my teeth on edge regarding it. I don't really know WHY though. BUT. My initial gut instinct is she didn't want anyone on the crew moving too far out of her eyesight. I wonder if the reason is because she actually has his "Trophies" from his kills somewhere in the home. Maybe hidden for him or after she realized what they actually were after he was arrested. Maybe a box of jewelry for example. Just a thought and something that is lingering in the back of my mind. Did anyone else notice this too?

 

[PositiveLight]

I think he had it before also. You don't just go to a local store and pick one up. And it has to be heavy. I know he had farm equipment he could use to move it but I have to think whomever delivered it would help "set it up/place it" too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Definitely.
I'm sure that whomever set it up initially will come forward HOPEFULLY!!!
Maybe they can trace it by some kind of number or tag on it?
My daddy used one as a workshop behind the house and it DID require being delivered to the property and placed where it is still located today. Just storage now. But they last a very long time!
They may also be able to tell the LE when and where they initially placed it.
I have a feeling the property they found it on wasn't it's first home honestly.
This contraption I fear had many more victims housed than we know about as of right now.
I'm so glad she was found when she was. I fear her days were already numbered. I don't think he kept
captives too long once he grew tired of them. I think his torture room (I don't care what his mama says!)
was built upon after trial and error. No one builds something like that on a whim and because "They don't know what to do with the witness". :notgood::notgood:

 

[Kadoober]

PL, Melissa said in the 48 Hours episode that when she heard his name, it rang no bells.

Which is not to say that she couldn't have had contact with him without knowing his name, that very well could be.

 

[Gardener1850]

Catching up on the threads and wanted to throw something out there when I read your post.
I am curious (and it is probably mentioned further in this thread so forgive me if it has been discussed.) did Melissa ever have ANY contact with TK? Even being in the building when he was there, for him to see her and maybe fixate on her?
Again it could be him trying to get rid of his perceived nemesis, her husband, so he could get the girl?
This guy was not firing on all cylinders obviously and Melissa was very pretty. Maybe he fixated on her?
Maybe they mentioned him possibly shooting someone in Arizona to see if she knew of any close guy friends or friends or acquaintances that if he was stalking her, he could have thought they were his new target.
This is an interesting tidbit for sure. Maybe after stalking her he realized she was pregnant and backed off?
Finding someone else to target. JMOO and curiosity.

I don't think she had ever met him because when LE called and told her the name she did not know who he was. Brian Lucas was also married but I can't find much about his wife.

 

[mrseeker]

Great theories. I wonder how we got two stories, one tries to return, and the other it was stolen. We know TK lies, so whatever he says is to manipulate, gain sympathy or for financial gain, or as we found out murder. So he buys the bike and it's clear he has no idea what he is buying. Good natured ribbing maybe, or just lots of concern by the pro's that he should consider a lesser bike. He wrecks it a few times, and either lies to mom that they would not take bike back, or they told him, its a wrecked bike and we cannot accept it. He arranges for the bike to be "stolen" and collects insurance or has the lien paid off. Maybe he just hid the bike. Or maybe he just tells the bike got stolen story to mom. The customer who saw him in the store that day never reports seeing any tension. TK is just shopping for a bike. This is what has me confused. Did he buy a bike or not, and whatever happened to it? You would think there would be a stolen bike report somewhere. So i think neither story is completely true. I think he told his mommy years before that he killed them because they made fun of him. The details faded until he refreshed her memory. Maybe he told one story back in 2003 and forgot that lie when he confessed to the sheriff. I think something else happened that day, and he was in the process of committing a crime at the store. Fraud maybe, something. As his mom said when she explained away the kidnapping. What could he do because K would tell the police about shooting Charlie. So he shot those 4 because there was the threat of prison for whatever he was up to. Find me his police report for his stolen bike and maybe i will change my mind. As mom said, what could he do? He had to do it.

 

[Gardener1850]

Interestingly we now have a story that TK did not have experience with motorcycles and that was also in the original witness description of the suspect that they made the sketch based upon. Here's a quote:

"The sheriff's office contacted one of the last customers who left the store that day," said reporter Daniel Gross.

"He was saying that he was at the shop, he saw a person who had on a leather coat," said Lorraine Lucas, Brian Lucas's mother. "It was a rather warm day and he was looking at a motorcycle that he acted like he never had any motorcycle experience."

According to the witness, that was only moments before the shooting. Investigators released a sketch to the public.

"They don't know who that customer is," said Gross. "They don't know who that individual is. But whoever that was was believed to have been the shooter."

http://crimewatchdaily.com/2016/02/08/4-people-massacred-in-motorsports-shop-in-middle-of-day/

And now we DO know who that was. It all seems to fit, even if the story is somewhat muddled as to the order of events.

 

[PositiveLight]

PL, Melissa said in the 48 Hours episode that when she heard his name, it rang no bells.

Which is not to say that she couldn't have had contact with him without knowing his name, that very well could be.

Well I'm thinking more along the line of...
She had no clue who he was but he saw her visiting the shop and liked her looks. Started stalking from there. Maybe he revisited the shop multiple times with the sole reason to see her again. When the hubby laughed at him that made him mad as heck. Revenge taken. Then he possibly followed her enough to figure out where she was moving to.
A stalker will go to any means necessary to be near their target. Many people have no clue they are even being stalked of course until something terrible happens. Restraining orders don't stop them either.
But I doubt SHE knew him.... my question is did HE know her?
Maybe her hubby spoke about her often and innocently like "Melissa brought me my lunch already"...and he overheard (purposefully) all the info he needed. Maybe he chose that time because Melissa wasn't there?
I'm just thinking out loud and so glad they have stopped this MONSTER.
(((((Yes mama, he is a MONSTER and a SERIAL KILLER!!)))))