EVIDENCE - Pro and Con

[Surfside]

I'm very sorry you had to experience that (but very glad you didn't end up being in a thread here on WS, lol.)

I suspect I would react the same way even knowing how masochistic it is.

Thanks. I didn't go full-on-journal-keeping crazy. I did, however, learn a lot more about computers at the time. And I may have done a drive-by here and there. When my fog finally lifted, I couldn't believe how consumed I had been. I guess we're all different, so we react in different ways. But like you said, when you find out the person in the ultimate position of trust in your life has been lying to you, you just don't know how you're going to react. In my situation, I didn't find myself wanting revenge on "the other women." I was trying to prove to myself that I wasn't paranoid or insane, thinking he was cheating on me, by gathering EVIDENCE. When I had enough evidence, I snapped out of it and filed for divorce. A friend once told me "the best revenge is living a happy life." I took those words to heart and set my sails in that direction.

Sorry to get us off topic. Just wanted to say that when you're cheated on/lied to (especially when you thought your marriage was forever), you may do things you never thought you'd do. You may not recognize yourself for a while. Again though, not taking up for TM or siding with her in the slightest.

 

[Madeleine74]

The lesson to be learned is if you (the royal you, not referring to anyone in particular here) have a cheating spouse, the problem isn't the other person, the problem is your spouse, the one who made vows to you and then broke them, the one who lied to you. If they'll cheat on you once, they'll cheat on you again. Killing the 'other party' in the cheating relationship doesn't do a thing to improve the character of the cheating spouse, it doesn't make them an honest person, and sitting in jail potentially for the rest of your life for murder isn't worth it in the end.

Ya think Tammy realizes that by now? Nahhh, probably not. She thinks she got rid of her problem but she created dozens more. She'll learn (eventually) all she did was f(*% up her life and the lives of her kids. Bad Karma killing someone. Really, really bad.

 

[stillwatersc]

If I recall correctly from the first bond hearing - it was (at the very least implied) that this 'journal' started around the time TM found out about Heather. They said it contained personal info - not just about Heather - but about her family, too (birthdays, addresses - maybe even where some of them worked? Can't remember exactly but it was definitely along those lines. Pretty sure I posted more details way back then). I don't believe there was a "confession" in it by any means (or we would've heard about that) - but it might very well show that they were trying to come up with a PLAN to murder heather - and maybe try to find a way to pin it on one of her family members -- or maybe do it in a way they could connect it back to her family (and not them?)? I dunno - but am very interested to hear more details about it at trial.

I don't understand why TM didn't trash the journal once Heather was gone. Didn't it occur to her there could be a search warrant? Did she think it was too well hidden to be found? Was she still using it to stalk the Elvis family?

 

[Madeleine74]

Fortunately most killers are much dumber than they ever imagine themselves to be. Everyone who commits a murder pretty much thinks they'll somehow get away with it. Most of them, most of the time, are wrong.

 

[bestill]

Anyone think that Heather was the first and the last woman SM will cheat with? He's not happily married, he may be with TM now, but I predict regardless of how this turns out they won't stay married.

 

[bestill]

I don't understand why TM didn't trash the journal once Heather was gone. Didn't it occur to her there could be a search warrant? Did she think it was too well hidden to be found? Was she still using it to stalk the Elvis family?

I think she was so obsessed with Heather there's no telling what other items and "intel" TM gathered. Proves to me how confident she was that Heather was gone and that she wasn't going to be found. TM really thought she had gotten away with it.

 

[Madeleine74]

Anyone think that Heather was the first and the last woman SM will cheat with? He's not happily married, he may be with TM now, but I predict regardless of how this turns out they won't stay married.

No idea if Heather was the first. Maybe. Don't forget Heather did pursue him (even though it upsets people to hear that, it is true). However, I don't see SM hanging around forever. Then again, he might be in prison the rest of his life along with TM. Hard to predict.

 

[bestill]

No idea if Heather was the first. Maybe. Don't forget Heather did pursue him (even though it upsets people to hear that, it is true). However, I don't see SM hanging around forever. Then again, he might be in prison the rest of his life along with TM. Hard to predict.

I don't know if she did or didn't, I do think she was into him big time, but do we know that she did the pursuing or was it a mutual thing? All we know is what TM has said about it and we know what spin she put on it.

 

[Madeleine74]

I don't know if she did or didn't, I do think she was into him big time, but do we know that she did the pursuing or was it a mutual thing? All we know is what TM has said about it and we know what spin she put on it.

Heather's Twitter posts made it pretty clear she noticed him (first), was pursuing him, and intended to "have her way with him." In fact it didn't seem like she planned a relationship with him per se -- just one or more sexual encounters. Yet what they developed lasted a few months until TM found out and probably would have gone on longer had TM not found out.

The defense team will bring these NC17 rated Twitter posts up during trial, so I hope no one is surprised by that. Some imagine Heather as a little girl, but she was a young adult, of legal age, and sexually experienced.

 

[bestill]

Heather's Twitter posts made it pretty clear she noticed him (first), was pursuing him, and intended to "have her way with him." In fact it didn't seem like she planned a relationship with him per se -- just one or more sexual encounters. Yet what they developed lasted a few months until TM found out and probably would have gone on longer had TM not found out.

The defense team will bring these NC17 rated Twitter posts up during trial, so I hope no one is surprised by that. Some imagine Heather as a little girl, but she was a young adult, of legal age, and sexually experienced.

I'm sure the defense will bring them up. But does it really matter? SM cooperated and he was in as deep as Heather was. Personally I think it was mutual.

 

[Madeleine74]

I'm sure the defense will bring them up. But does it really matter? SM cooperated and he was in as deep as Heather was. Personally I think it was mutual.

Well I was answering the question you posed above, "was Heather SM's first affair or not?" Obviously I don't know, but I mentioned that Heather pursued him first, because if this was his first time cheating on his wife, then he wasn't necessarily looking to cheat, but he didn't turn down the opportunity when the opportunity arose.

And, just to be clear, I'm not blaming Heather here. There's no reason that makes it ok to be murdered in cold blood.

 

[bestill]

Madeleine74, I was referring to what the defense is sure to use against Heather and I hope the state has dug deeply into SM/TM's past too. I agree with what you're saying, just musings on my part.

 

[paris_paris]

I remember a a quote from I think the woman that Heather worked for at the the bar. She said Heather and Sidney "definitely courted each other". It was mutual.

 

[CarmonCayman]

I was wondering if Hoppy or PTF could go by her apartment and see if there are any surveillance cameras in the parking lot or in the entryways into the apartments. This may shed light, if there are, on how they know she drove herself to PTL and made the calls herself.



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[PeterThomasFan]

I was wondering if Hoppy or PTF could go by her apartment and see if there are any surveillance cameras in the parking lot or in the entryways into the apartments. This may shed light, if there are, on how they know she drove herself to PTL and made the calls herself.



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I was actually considering it. Maybe this week.


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[EmmaRose]

I'm sure the defense will bring them up. But does it really matter? SM cooperated and he was in as deep as Heather was. Personally I think it was mutual.

I agree, bestill. Even if Heather initiated and the defense tries to blame her, SM as a father and husband should have said no. Besides, that could backfire on TM's defense because a wife may become enraged toward Heather because she pursued SM.

 

[EmmaRose]

Are SM and TM's lawyers going to put blame on each others client, or will they work together to get them both off? I'm not sure how this works since the couple is being tried together, but at the same time have different lawyers...

 

[Madeleine74]

Absolutely correct -- it wasn't up to Heather to say "no" to SM, as he was the one in the marriage, he was the one who made vows, and he was the one who committed adultery whether his wife cared or not (she claimed not to care but that was a lie). It was his job as a husband to maintain the boundaries of fidelity when given the opportunity to cheat, unless he and TM had an explicit agreement to have an open marriage.

I think the state can help take the wind out of the defense's sails by bringing up Heather's independent spirit and adult status and her attraction and her talking about her sexual feelings in social media. It's right there, so someone is going to bring it up...might as well be the state first. Why is this important and why does it matter? Because it's part of who Heather was, she published these things publicly, it's behavior and language that some members of a jury might find objectionable for a 20 yr old, particularly if there are older folks on the jury, and even though that's how many 20-somethings talk. A young woman writing that she is in lust with a man (who just so happened to be married) at her workplace and talking about someday dragging him into the mop closet to have her way with him, and the jury learning they did indeed begin an affair, could put the victim in a bad light. I know it's not fair, but life isn't fair, and a victim's behaviors do get brought up by defense teams. It is what it is. However, an affair does not give anyone the right to commit murder, and that's what the state will need the jury to focus attention on.

 

[EmmaRose]

I agree that the state should introduce Heather's comments in regard to her independent spirit and adulthood.

In the first bond hearing, it seemed as if Donna Elder was beginning to reel it in by presenting Heather and Sidney's relationship in a softer light-- by bringing up the TK manager's statement that they cared for each other, courted each other.

 

[stillwatersc]

I was wondering if Hoppy or PTF could go by her apartment and see if there are any surveillance cameras in the parking lot or in the entryways into the apartments. This may shed light, if there are, on how they know she drove herself to PTL and made the calls herself.



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Is this Heather's apartment complex?

http://www.riveroaksresortvacations.com/river-oaks.php