Found Deceased FL - Madeline Soto, 13, Missing Child Alert, 13500 blk Town Loop Blvd, Orlando, 26 Feb 2024 *arrest* #6

[MollyDDD]

No one said that. MOO

I have no idea of the workings of JS's brain and SS's ability to gaslight/manipulate/intimidate and/or scare her, but discussing the possible dynamics of their relationship and the murder is not the same thing as excusing/denying or being naive about the possible involvement or willful ignorance by the mother.

We don't know yet and it is not a fault to not conclude she is guilty of something as of now.

There was a grand jury that heard the evidence, we don't even know if they were asked to consider indicting the mother for anything, I would think it would have looked very odd if there was evidence she was involved but no charges were considered. MOO

I was only speaking hypothetically.

 

[AnyNameIWish]

So in terms of JS inconsistencies, can we make a list?

- interview in English where she uses the words "she was observed wearing".. in the morning when law enforcement says she was dead before 8am.
- interview In English where she says WE dropped her off... "a few blocks from the school" - then changes it to 'my partner'
- statement to LE in affidavit saying she told officers she "saw Maddie get dressed" on Monday morning
- interview in Spanish talking about how she was seen in the church parking lot after being dropped off

I'm sorry but all these put together cannot just be an accident. Moo.

 

[MassGuy]

So in terms of JS inconsistencies, can we make a list?

- interview in English where she uses the words "she was observed wearing".. in the morning when law enforcement says she was dead before 8am.
- interview In English where she says WE dropped her off... "a few blocks from the school" - then changes it to 'my partner'
- statement to LE in affidavit saying she told officers she "saw Maddie get dressed" on Monday morning
- interview in Spanish talking about how she was seen in the church parking lot after being dropped off

I'm sorry but all these put together cannot just be an accident. Moo.

If I was given two extreme options, and forced to choose one of them, I would chose that JS helped murder Maddie, over JS being some ignorant pawn.

The truth is likely to be much closer to the former.

 

[Sjöberg]

I wonder, if SS recorded the assaults for his own use or for distribution? I don't know too much about the ways you can find eermh "material to his illegal tastes" out there, but I suspect there might be different options that include sending your own video to see some others? Or have I overcomplicated it?

I also have been pondering more graphic (warning!) details of his assaults. Once again, I don't know too much about the "material to his illegal tastes" and the preferences of child abusers in general, but the high preference for oral stood out to me when we first saw the document. I was not expecting it, and now it bugs me, but I am not sure, why. It just seems off. (not like anything about SS would be normal) I was also not expecting for such detailed info about abuse of a minor to be published, tbh, and I am not sure how I feel about that.

But the main thing I cannot put my finger on, is the motive behind the killing. Why now? I personally have never too strongly believed these "Maddie told SS that she was going to tell about the abuse to someone" theories. Firstly because it is unlikely she'd tell SS about such plans, secondly because it is unlikely she'd disclose the abuse to anyone without a trigger by now, considering the length of the abuse (truth be told, we don't know, maybe there was a trigger), and finally because she might have a hard time even recognizing and wording the abuse, as it has gone on for most of the life she remembers and from before more abstract thinking develops.
But if it was not about "him getting carried away" nor about Madeline threatening to tell, then why? It is possible she was "ageing out of his preferred age group", but this is a rather poor reason for killing her. Was it going to come out in some other way? <modsnip: off limits> Or was there something symbolic about the birthday? I must say, the murder does not feel too well-planned for that, there seems to be some sort of a hurry, lack of opportunities to do it better.

 

[LeahBee]

Is it possible JS is involved in the crime/cover up? Absolutely. We see it all the time - parents choosing their partner over their own children. And it's disgusting and upsetting to think about in each and every case.
But we are also allowed to speculate both sides of suspicion here, within TOS. This includes theories and scenarios of maybe JS being less involved. And we should be able to express these ideas on WS about not yet charged parties, without being labelled as sympathizers or enablers, or as having our "heads in the sand."
We all want justice to be served here to ALL parties involved, and I trust that investigators and prosecutors will get that done. But in the meantime, I hope we can continue to have constructive conversation here about what we believe, don't believe, and believe but don't want to believe. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if JS is extremely involved, but that doesn't mean I can't explore theories about why she hasn't been charged as of yet.

 

[Beekarina]

I wonder, if SS recorded the assaults for his own use or for distribution? I don't know too much about the ways you can find eermh "material to his illegal tastes" out there, but I suspect there might be different options that include sending your own video to see some others? Or have I overcomplicated it?

I also have been pondering more graphic (warning!) details of his assaults. Once again, I don't know too much about the "material to his illegal tastes" and the preferences of child abusers in general, but the high preference for oral stood out to me when we first saw the document. I was not expecting it, and now it bugs me, but I am not sure, why. It just seems off. (not like anything about SS would be normal) I was also not expecting for such detailed info about abuse of a minor to be published, tbh, and I am not sure how I feel about that.

But the main thing I cannot put my finger on, is the motive behind the killing. Why now? I personally have never too strongly believed these "Maddie told SS that she was going to tell about the abuse to someone" theories. Firstly because it is unlikely she'd tell SS about such plans, secondly because it is unlikely she'd disclose the abuse to anyone without a trigger by now, considering the length of the abuse (truth be told, we don't know, maybe there was a trigger), and finally because she might have a hard time even recognizing and wording the abuse, as it has gone on for most of the life she remembers and from before more abstract thinking develops.
But if it was not about "him getting carried away" nor about Madeline threatening to tell, then why? It is possible she was "ageing out of his preferred age group", but this is a rather poor reason for killing her. Was it going to come out in some other way? <modsnip: off limits> Or was there something symbolic about the birthday? I must say, the murder does not feel too well-planned for that, there seems to be some sort of a hurry, lack of opportunities to do it better.

It is speculation, and I'm not entirely sold on the idea of it, but there are some very dark theories about SS murdering her because he liked that idea,(Grey Hughes has mentioned those types of films) or someone else might have wanted a film of it. SS had a REALLY large amount of images and videos of the abuse, I would think. I also have no idea what is "normal" for someone engaged in such disgusting abuse, as clearly none of it is "normal", but you have to ask why he would "need" that much content for his own purposes when he still has access to his victim?

Considering this, I think it becomes more possible to consider others were somehow involved in the abuse of MS at some point--either directly or in viewing the images an videos of her abuse. We also know SS was not working in any capacity, nor was he receiving social benefits. (He has a free public defender, and the forms show he had no assets, and ZERO income, which are both extremely bizarre!) So unless his parents or JS were giving him money, he was earning it somehow, off "the books".

 

[Sjöberg]

It is speculation, and I'm not entirely sold on the idea of it, but there are some very dark theories about SS murdering her because he liked that idea,(Grey Hughes has mentioned those types of films) or someone else might have wanted a film of it.

Ugh, somehow it did not even cross my mind when writing my post. Yes, sadly I think it is a possibility we have to consider.

We also know SS was not working in any capacity, nor was he receiving social benefits. (He has a free public defender, and the forms show he had no assets, and ZERO income, which are both extremely bizarre!) So unless his parents or JS were giving him money, he was earning it somehow, off "the books".

Honestly, I am pretty sure that SS was milking both his parents and JS for money. I cannot put my finger on the reason I feel this way, but I immediately thought of some manipulative men living of their parents and partners that I've met over my own lifetime, he just fits that general "type" for me. Using everyone and refusing to grow up and handle his own shaité. However, this is not to say that I don't think it likely that he was also selling "stuff" related to his abusive behaviour, on the contrary, I think it's pretty likely it was a mix of all three.

 

[Megnut]

This statement really bothered me at the time, and bothers me more knowing what we know now.

Soto told Channel 9 last week that the last conversation she had with her daughter was about her 13th birthday party the night before her disappearance.

“I told her ‘good night,’ and yeah, that was it,” she said.

Incredibly vague, and the “that was it,” seems to be an effort to close the discussion. Nothing to see here, nothing happened after that.

The reporting today that law enforcement believes her death may have occurred shortly after the party, furthers this.

SS didn’t come over early to murder Maddie. I believe he was already there, and attacked her that night. I don’t think Maddie ever went to bed.

Madeline Soto: Story Jennifer Soto gave law enforcement doesn’t line up with what investigators know

Channel 9 learned Tuesday that the story Jennifer Soto -- the mother of 13-year-old Madeline Soto -- gave to law enforcement does not line up with what investigators know.

www.wftv.com

Exactly Mass Guy:

"And that was it."

Very peculiar wording.

Pair that with SS saying The Exact Same Thing. After his claim that he dropped her off (after claiming she "slept" most of the way) "...and that was it".

Madeline Soto: Story Jennifer Soto gave law enforcement doesn’t line up with what investigators know

Channel 9 learned Tuesday that the story Jennifer Soto -- the mother of 13-year-old Madeline Soto -- gave to law enforcement does not line up with what investigators know.

www.wftv.com

 

[ChatteringBirds]

I'm leaning toward JS being a victim of not only manipulation but also domestic violence by SS. Probably not extreme, just enough to cause pain sometimes and give an element of fear. It's not an excuse for her to lie to "protect" him, not over a child's well-being, but I think it's what has happened. A very manipulative, abusive, codependent relationship.

I think she lived in denial constantly and didn't know about the murder. I still think she slept through it all. She said goodnight to her daughter, went to sleep (maybe was drugged or took something willingly) and that really was it, until later in the morning.

JS wasn't on video throwing away evidence or in the car hiding her daughter's body, and I don't think it's likely SS would have left JS alone at home if she knew what he was doing. All JMO.

 

[oviedo]

This statement really bothered me at the time, and bothers me more knowing what we know now.

Soto told Channel 9 last week that the last conversation she had with her daughter was about her 13th birthday party the night before her disappearance.

“I told her ‘good night,’ and yeah, that was it,” she said.

Incredibly vague, and the “that was it,” seems to be an effort to close the discussion. Nothing to see here, nothing happened after that.

The reporting today that law enforcement believes her death may have occurred shortly after the party, furthers this.

SS didn’t come over early to murder Maddie. I believe he was already there, and attacked her that night. I don’t think Maddie ever went to bed.

Madeline Soto: Story Jennifer Soto gave law enforcement doesn’t line up with what investigators know

Channel 9 learned Tuesday that the story Jennifer Soto -- the mother of 13-year-old Madeline Soto -- gave to law enforcement does not line up with what investigators know.

www.wftv.com

I share this theory
JMO

 

[Sheila Terranova]

I'm leaning toward JS being a victim of not only manipulation but also domestic violence by SS. Probably not extreme, just enough to cause pain sometimes and give an element of fear. It's not an excuse for her to lie to "protect" him, not over a child's well-being, but I think it's what has happened. A very manipulative, abusive, codependent relationship.

I think she lived in denial constantly and didn't know about the murder. I still think she slept through it all. She said goodnight to her daughter, went to sleep (maybe was drugged or took something willingly) and that really was it, until later in the morning.

JS wasn't on video throwing away evidence or in the car hiding her daughter's body, and I don't think it's likely SS would have left JS alone at home if she knew what he was doing. All JMO.

Personally, and I could be wrong, I disagree. I experienced severe domestic violence and one bonds with the others being abused and begs for help but normally can’t get away either from death threats or finances, homelessness. I think if she had experienced this she would have been screaming for him to be arrested now that it was possible. In my opinion she sounds more like either an extremely neglectful mother …too tired to drive to school (a weak example ) according to her ….or an abusive mother aware her daughter was murdered and excusing why she didn’t drive her (already dead )to school.

 

[MissMalowe]

Are most long-term child sexual abusers also domestic abusers to their partners? I've never looked up the data, but am curious.

Logically, being the "kind, trustworthy" partner would seem to be the best way to have a continued relationship & therefore also continued access to the child(ren) while still not casting suspicions on oneself, but like I said, I've never looked up the data.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around why now, 5 YEARS later, he decided to kill her- Purposely cutting off his access to a long-term victim.

This post was rather pointless I guess- just thinking aloud.

 

[Forest_Wood]

We have that in a police report written by the officer, they were there to take a report about a 13 year that didn't go to school and didn't take her cell phone with her and hadn't returned home yet. I don't put much into that as it wasn't a detailed timeline meant to prove anything as in an investigation, it was just a teenager not coming home. JS did not write the statement herself and I find it unlikely that she examined it. From personal experience, most people just want to hurry up and get a report made because they mistakenly think something is immediately going to be done. By the way, many (innocent) parents tell LE things to make themselves look like "good" parents when reporting their kids missing. The admonition is to deter people from false reporting, as in claiming your car was stolen when you crashed it, insurance fraud on a burglary, or faking a kidnapping. I doubt that she will be indicted/arrested/prosecuted for a crime just because of what was written by the officer in the first report combined with what was said in an interview with the media. I don't see that she obstructed the investigation with false information. If she did something in a formal LE interview and statement, that would be different.

Said every Chief and Sheriff, clearly not the same as naming them as a suspect.

<modsnip: personalizing> I disagree with your interpretation about what has been sworn to by the initial officer on an official police report, and stated on camera by the chief of police in this case. MOO.

 

[CuriousCricket]

I don’t think they’re investigating others, I just see it as a transparent way to deny they’re looking at mom specifically. It’s like when you know someone is a suspect, and police say “everyone’s a suspect right now.”

I’ve seen variations of that more times that I can count.

I just think it’s complicated because while they could charge her on the relatively minor crime of perjury, they know there’s more there as one commits perjury for a reason.

But without Stephan talking, it’s gotta be very difficult to prove anything more serious.

I have personally convicted her of hugging and comforting the monster who destroyed her daughter -- and for the entire world to see! <modsnip>

 

[64WhetstoneRoad]

She had a similar phrasing when JS gave an interview to Telemundo in Spanish....
She calmly says.... around 1:10 in the video.... (this is in the first day or two of her disappearance)

"manejo....Y se fue!!!" With a flick of her hand "away"... very dismissive and as if to say, that's it! That's all I know! (About leaving after seeing Maddie walking away in the church parking lot WHICH WE ALL KNOW DID NOT HAPPEN EVER EVER THAT DAY SINCE SHE WAS DEAD ALREADY.)

When she says “él manejó, y se fue” she’s referring to SS not MS. Before that she says that SS dropped MS off by the church, MS started walking and SS drove off. So, similar phrasing as with “and that was it” but this time it’s not towards MS but SS. Because he supposedly really did drive off and that was it. Obviously we know that never happened.
MOO

 

[AnyNameIWish]

When she says “él manejó, y se fue” she’s referring to SS not MS. Before that she says that SS dropped MS off by the church,

I am aware. I'm referring to her attitude/finality in her response. It's this whole "that's the story", and flicking her hand away that I'm referring to.

 

[Forest_Wood]

I am aware. I'm referring to her attitude/finality in her response. It's this whole "that's the story", and flicking her hand away that I'm referring to.

Yes, and SS said the same thing in one of his interviews where he was weeping and snivelling.
"And that was it".

 

[Wishbone]

Yes, and SS said the same thing in one of his interviews where he was weeping and snivelling.
"And that was it".

It's almost like she is saying “and that was it” when she said “No way to trace her” during her interview....It may seem like a little thing to add when talking about your missing child forgetting her phone, but IMO it's an added bit of information I didn't expect to hear from a grieving mother.Going further she explains how her child is so forgetful she frequently can't remember to take her phone with her. It feels like a web being woven to convince an audience that forgetting the phone is a perfectly normal thing for this child and what a shame there is no way to locate MS.

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

I don’t think they’re investigating others, I just see it as a transparent way to deny they’re looking at mom specifically. It’s like when you know someone is a suspect, and police say “everyone’s a suspect right now.”

I’ve seen variations of that more times that I can count.

I just think it’s complicated because while they could charge her on the relatively minor crime of perjury, they know there’s more there as one commits perjury for a reason.

But without Stephan talking, it’s gotta be very difficult to prove anything more serious.

Misleading the media carries no penalty or charge, misleading or even flat-out intentional lies in a preliminary report are not statements given under oath before a court/tribunal or during any type of court procedure. Obstruction would be the charge but even then I don't see her saying she say the daughter at 8 AM accomplishing that as SS was known to claim to be the last person who saw the victim before she disappeared. I don't think her saying that would interest a prosecutor. We also don't know if she didn't "correct" that misinformation in her formal interview.

Statutes & Constitution :Search Statutes : Online Sunshine

 

[ChatteringBirds]

I think if she had experienced this she would have been screaming for him to be arrested now that it was possible. In my opinion she sounds more like either an extremely neglectful mother …too tired to drive to school (a weak example ) according to her

Quote snipped by me for focus.

I am sorry for what you experienced and am glad you survived and hope you are safe and well.

I guess my belief that JS may have experienced abuse is coming from 1) how violent and abusive SS clearly can be 2) trying to figure out why she would lie on his behalf and go out of her way to comfort him, when she was the one who would most need comforting.

I don't think being too tired (or busy, etc) to drive a 13-y.o. to.school was neglectful. (Most that I know walk, take a bike, or ride a bus.)