Hannah Graham: Body Recovered, 18 Oct, 2014 **Awaiting Forensic Confirmation** #5

[tlcya]

If anyone could judge height of someone by looking at a skeleton I would think it would be LE. They are trained to be pretty fair judgers of things like height, weight, distinguishing features, notice details of situations and areas, etc.

 

[AnnaGrace]

http://www.wusa9.com/story/news/local/2014/10/23/bobby-pughs-tip-may-have-led-to-hannah-grahams-body/17791605/
bbm

It's sad that the property couldn't be searched soon after he called, before so much damage was done. I understand though that there were so many tips that it just took time to get through them. I'm sure it's hard to determine which ones need to be checked out first.

 

[SolVol]

MaggieMoo*

Registered User

Join Date

FWIW all of JLM's suspected attacks occurred on days LIBERTY U. Had a football game, maybe it was a trigger.
Sep 24, 20051 p.m.vs. William and Mary
Williamsburg, Va.L (0-56)
Oct 17, 20093:30 PMCoastal Carolina*
Homecoming Weekend
Lynchburg, Va
Sep 13, 20147:00 PMBrevard
TV: LFSN/ESPN3 Radio: LFSN
Lynchburg, Va.

*******

Wondering about other possible victims - so will post a reply at that page. Please go there.

 

[teeandcee]

I agree Whiskers. A few of us are trying to get a picture from vsp and get something bought to light on her. Calls have been made today and yesterday. APD and ASD are referring you back to each other as if neither one is handling the case but it clearly says to call APD with information and they seem to have no knowledge and refers you back to ASD. Its a crazy situation.

That's really discouraging. And depressing. Yeesh.

 

[ILOKAL]

http://www.wusa9.com/story/news/local/2014/10/23/bobby-pughs-tip-may-have-led-to-hannah-grahams-body/17791605/
bbm

Mr. Pugh's story has changed somewhat over time. He first said he saw the black vultures on October 5th, returned on October 6th, saw no vultures but did a cursory look. He felt awkward trespassing so at 9:45 AM on October 6th he called in the tip.

His story changed earlier this week. He said he saw the black vultures on October 5th, went to his job site, returned to the OLR house later that day, some buzzards were still there so he THEN called in the tip.

In THIS story he said he saw the black vultures on September 30th and called in the tip that day. IMO

He's a landscaper and has work orders, a calendar, or something telling him where to go and when. I don't understand the difficulty with his story.

 

[zapped]

Actually, I know from being fitted for a backpack that the length of your spine isn't necessarily indicative of your height. And I really question if the officer who found the remains really could guess how tall the person was by looking at the spine of a skeleton that was laying on the ground. Not to say he was lying, but you have to take in to consideration the length of the leg bones as well as the spine to determine height and he probably did only a cursory look and then called the find in and backed away.

Agreed, but 4'9" is tiny.IIRC correctly anyone under 4'10" is a considered a dwarf.

I could be mistaken but I think LE would have noticed if a body was more-or-less child sized.

Personally, I would have found that even more horrifying.

JMO of course.

 

[SteveP]

If anyone could judge height of someone by looking at a skeleton I would think it would be LE. They are trained to be pretty fair judgers of things like height, weight, distinguishing features, notice details of situations and areas, etc.

I agree with most of your comment, but I do think it would be very difficult to judge the height of a person without being able to see the entire skeleton. Some people are long-waisted and some people short-waisted. I have seen people that looked like they were all legs and some have short legs. I think very specific forensic training would be required to accurately surmise height from only partial remains. JMO

 

[wary]

Agreed, but 4'9" is tiny.IIRC correctly anyone under 4'10" is a considered a dwarf.

I could be mistaken but I think LE would have noticed if a body was more-or-less child sized.

Personally, I would have found that even more horrifying.

JMO of course.

Quite a while ago people made some comments on the subject of judging height from someone's spine. The points I remember were that the tailbone makes someone's spine look unexpectedly long, and that, of course, much of someone's height is in the legs, so the spines of two people of different heights will not be as strikingly different as if you stood the two people side by side to compare them.

 

[Lilgal]

Mr. Pugh's story has changed somewhat over time. He first said he saw the black vultures on October 5th, returned on October 6th, saw no vultures but did a cursory look. He felt awkward trespassing so at 9:45 AM on October 6th he called in the tip.

His story changed earlier this week. He said he saw the black vultures on October 5th, went to his job site, returned to the OLR house later that day, some buzzards were still there so he THEN called in the tip.

In THIS story he said he saw the black vultures on September 30th and called in the tip that day. IMO

He's a landscaper and has work orders, a calendar, or something telling him where to go and when. I don't understand the difficulty with his story.

I was thinking the same thing. He seemed so believable otherwise, but the different dates make me doubt his story.

 

[Phoebeb]

Very crazy. Do you know her? Maybe we can get a thread relegated to her as well. I cannot believe more people around here aren't talking about it. The news may not even know. Bonnie Santiago is mentioned among the missing women, but never this 17 year old.

And for those following, I don't think the poster means that the skeleton is one of these other women. Simply shedding light on others who are missing in the area and LE does not discuss it.

I did a google search for Cindy Campos Bonilla, her facebook page is there and it looks like she has been updating her pics on that page recently. If that's the same Cindy B, maybe she has been found?? I can't find any news articles about her, very strange. Then I was reading through the missing kids site and saw this young lady missing from VB in May 2014, with black pants:

http://www.missingkids.com/poster/USVA/VA14-1260/1

I have no idea of her status- haven't checked into that yet...

 

[Heroine]

Hawes Spencer ‏@HawesSpencer 6m6 minutes ago

#HannahGraham suspect Jesse Matthew would have been outed four years ago under new DNA plan: http://wvtf.org/post/virginias-dna-database …

 

[tlcya]

I agree with most of your comment, but I do think it would be very difficult to judge the height of a person without being able to see the entire skeleton. Some people are long-waisted and some people short-waisted. I have seen people that looked like they were all legs and some have short legs. I think very specific forensic training would be required to accurately surmise height from only partial remains. JMO

Agreed, depending on how much of the remains were readily visible to the sgt, his ability to judge would vary a great deal.

ETA I get what you are saying, long waisted short person short waisted tall person, that torso length can vary a lot.

 

[scmom23]

Can we really say they've "called off the search" for HG? I know they cancelled the search that was to include members of the community, but they are clearly still *searching* this wide area near (and not so near) the place where remains were found. They are just using LE instead of the public. So, I take this to mean they have reason to believe they are in the right place and now want to focus their search. They either have proof that the find was HG and are still searching for more evidence OR they cannot identify this as HG but there is some evidence of JM having been at the location, so are targeting their search for HG and/or others.

I can't say for sure they aren't still looking for HG but after the remains found and press conference, Longo made the "search for HG" seem like mission complete. IMO. I only assumed the search wasn't for HG at this point but for evidence.

 

[dda]

I agree with most of your comment, but I do think it would be very difficult to judge the height of a person without being able to see the entire skeleton. Some people are long-waisted and some people short-waisted. I have seen people that looked like they were all legs and some have short legs. I think very specific forensic training would be required to accurately surmise height from only partial remains. JMO

Yes I completely agree. I also wonder if the deputy was a little stunned. I understand that he is law enforcement but still finding a skeleton, presumably of a young woman, in that place and condition has to be unnerving to some degree for all but the most hardened. Purely speculating but I think there was more to her remains than he saw just upon his visual inspection. I also assume that group immediately went into crime scene preservation mode and weren't standing around in close proximity examining the remains.

 

[Celtsleuth]

There are many that have been missing from that area through the years that didn't get the publicity nor the usage of resources that they used for this search. Why this is, I can only speculate...this situation went nationwide, perhaps because she was a young attractive college student. All the missing girls are a tragedy but we know it is a fact of life that certain ones take the limelight while others do not. I think LE does the best it can do. They could spend all their time looking for missing people but perhaps they choose the ones that they feel have the highest chance of resolution. I don't know what the circumstances were with the other girl that went missing on the 12th but I sure hope she is found.

 

[AnnaGrace]

Yes I completely agree. I also wonder if the deputy was a little stunned. I understand that he is law enforcement but still finding a skeleton, presumably of a young woman, in that place and condition has to be unnerving to some degree for all but the most hardened. Purely speculating but I think there was more to her remains than he saw just upon his visual inspection. I also assume that group immediately went into crime scene preservation mode and weren't standing around in close proximity examining the remains.

Yes and in the videos Hannah appeared to have very long legs.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

With it taking this long to ID Hannah I am afraid that JM may have removed her teeth since he knows they IDd Morgan through dental records.

Extracting DNA from the femur and the testing usually takes around 10 days.

I think that is why we are in a holding pattern on the ID of the remains found.

JMO

 

[Doghairrules]

Quite a while ago people made some comments on the subject of judging height from someone's spine. The points I remember were that the tailbone makes someone's spine look unexpectedly long, and that, of course, much of someone's height is in the legs, so the spines of two people of different heights will not be as strikingly different as if you stood the two people side by side to compare them.

This is so true. My brother and niece are both 6'5" (not a typo) and her hips are at least 6" higher than his.

 

[ILOKAL]

There are many that have been missing from that area through the years that didn't get the publicity nor the usage of resources that they used for this search. Why this is, I can only speculate...this situation went nationwide, perhaps because she was a young attractive college student. All the missing girls are a tragedy but we know it is a fact of life that certain ones take the limelight while others do not. I think LE does the best it can do. They could spend all their time looking for missing people but perhaps they choose the ones that they feel have the highest chance of resolution. I don't know what the circumstances were with the other girl that went missing on the 12th but I sure hope she is found.

IMO, the reason this case has gotten the degree of attention and resources it has is mainly because Hannah's abduction is virtually on video. Don't know that has ever happened before, at least not to this degree. JMO

 

[SolVol]

MaggieMoo*

Registered User

Join Date

FWIW all of JLM's suspected attacks occurred on days LIBERTY U. Had a football game, maybe it was a trigger.
Sep 24, 20051 p.m.vs. William and Mary
Williamsburg, Va.L (0-56)
Oct 17, 20093:30 PMCoastal Carolina*
Homecoming Weekend
Lynchburg, Va
Sep 13, 20147:00 PMBrevard
TV: LFSN/ESPN3 Radio: LFSN
Lynchburg, Va.

*******

Does anyone know if there were there Liberty University games the days these women/girls disappeared?

11/28/13 - Jamisha Gilbert
8/3/13 - Alexis Murphy
9/06/13 - Shanea Lockwood - Fairfax, VA
12/07/13 - Margennae Dixon - Fairfax, VA
11/20/12 – DaShad Smith
11/21/11 - Lauren Renee Smith 17 – Hattiesburg, MS
9/13/10 - Samantha Clarke
10/10/09– Cassandra Morton
11/18/09 - Tawanda Latisha Hill
8/26/2006 - Quaisra Khan, Alexandria VA
10/18/03 - Rachel Nicole Good, Elkton VA
9/7/03 - Sophie May Rivera
8/29/02 - La-teasha Lamone Brooks, Farmville VA